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You Must Spill Your Own Blood for Forgiveness Mormons!

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  • jamesone5
    replied
    Originally posted by quetzloc View Post

    Absolutely, I do notice that, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. However their silence is deafening. That said, if they did renounce it, what then? This then begs the following question: why don't they remove the offensive doctrine from every text, record, speech, etc? Aside from the obvious that it would be spurning whoever taught the false doctrine at the time, which hits multiple major leaders, but it would also leave gaping holes in classic important works. It would be like removing Deuteronomy because some are offended by the laws it contains.


    I'd also like to know if they believe Jesus lied to the thief on the cross when He said he would be in heaven that day, since thieves can't be saved until their sins are redeemed through works.... that guy wasn't coming off that cross until he died, thus no chance to redeem himself.


    Spencer Kimball says Jesus lied, since they hadn't repented after works. (for context, read p 160-170...)

    Spencer Kimball. tMoF, p 166. “Another mistaken idea is that the thief on the cross was forgiven of his sins when the dying Christ answered “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.”(luke 23:43)These men on the cross were thieves. How could the Lord forgive a malefactor? They had broken laws…We may be sure that the Savior’s instructions to the thief on the cross were comparable to his instructions to the woman caught in adultery: “go your way and transform yourself and repent.”
    I'd also like to know if they believe Jesus lied to the thief on the cross when He said he would be in heaven that day, since thieves can't be saved until their sins are redeemed through works.... that guy wasn't coming off that cross until he died, thus no chance to redeem himself.====quetzloc

    Once again---you are pretending you are the gatekeepers to heaven.

    That role belongs to Christ as the Way to the Father [John 14:6]--not the Mormon church as another way.


    Spencer Kimball says Jesus lied, since they hadn't repented after works. (for context, read p 160-170...)----quetzloc
    Say what? a prophet in your Chruch very arrogantly tells you that Jesus lied and you are still willing to follow him?

    The dark underbelly of the Mormon Chruch becomes more apparent each day

    Leave a comment:


  • jamesone5
    replied
    Originally posted by quetzloc View Post

    Just to be clear, you are repeating what I actually said in the quote you referenced from me.
    What you think I repeated the whole thing verbatim?

    A statement with a question mark behind it, is a clear giveaway--like this:


    A personal decision is somehow equated with a Chruch mandate? ---jamesone5
    You have not told me how you equate a Chruch mandate with a personal decision.

    Just to be very clear--I will ask you the question again.

    Leave a comment:


  • quetzloc
    replied
    Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

    But you notice, too, none of the Mormons here renounce this Blood Atonement doctrine as false. I think they believe it.
    Absolutely, I do notice that, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. However their silence is deafening. That said, if they did renounce it, what then? This then begs the following question: why don't they remove the offensive doctrine from every text, record, speech, etc? Aside from the obvious that it would be spurning whoever taught the false doctrine at the time, which hits multiple major leaders, but it would also leave gaping holes in classic important works. It would be like removing Deuteronomy because some are offended by the laws it contains.


    I'd also like to know if they believe Jesus lied to the thief on the cross when He said he would be in heaven that day, since thieves can't be saved until their sins are redeemed through works.... that guy wasn't coming off that cross until he died, thus no chance to redeem himself.


    Spencer Kimball says Jesus lied, since they hadn't repented after works. (for context, read p 160-170...)

    Spencer Kimball. tMoF, p 166. “Another mistaken idea is that the thief on the cross was forgiven of his sins when the dying Christ answered “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.”(luke 23:43)These men on the cross were thieves. How could the Lord forgive a malefactor? They had broken laws…We may be sure that the Savior’s instructions to the thief on the cross were comparable to his instructions to the woman caught in adultery: “go your way and transform yourself and repent.”

    Leave a comment:


  • quetzloc
    replied
    Originally posted by jamesone5 View Post
    r


    A personal decision is somehow equated with a Chruch mandate? Your Chruch is the one Chruch who place such importance on a Baptism by the so-called proper authority.

    I for one was rebaptised when I became a Christian--but it was my decision of the Church I am a Member of.

    Actually have had 3 baptisms is my life. FYI
    Just to be clear, you are repeating what I actually said in the quote you referenced from me.

    Leave a comment:


  • jamesone5
    replied
    Originally posted by quetzloc View Post

    Rededications/reaffirmations happen in the Christian faith as well, but that is a personal decision, not a mandate by the pastor.
    r


    A personal decision is somehow equated with a Chruch mandate? Your Chruch is the one Chruch who place such importance on a Baptism by the so-called proper authority.

    I for one was rebaptised when I became a Christian--but it was my decision of the Church I am a Member of.

    Actually have had 3 baptisms is my life. FYI

    Leave a comment:


  • quetzloc
    replied
    Originally posted by jamesone5 View Post

    Gee I wonder what those so-called "high priests" who originally baptized them thought of that?

    Their so-called authority was not all that authoritative as it seems.

    I had a couple of experiences in baptizing others as an Elder in the Church----particularity with my own father who joined the Chruch in 1982 or so. As I look back there was no power that I was giving my own dad and it really was very silly in retrospect.

    But I am Blessed that I did my part in showing my dad the TRUE Christ, shortly before he died.
    Rededications/reaffirmations happen in the Christian faith as well, but that is a personal decision, not a mandate by the pastor.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by quetzloc View Post
    the blood covenant doctrine and subsequent reactions (such as the Danites) is a major problem set which the modern LDS church has attempted to move away from. However, it is a historical reality, and if they were to remove the sermons, teachings, and portions of doctrine which discuss it, many segments of their foundational teachings would be left looking like swiss cheese. this forces them to leave the BA teachings in place, but ignore them.

    Of course, one cannot ignore cancer; it must be cut out. doing so would also gut more pertinent books.... how would it affect the HotC, D&C, etc?


    How valid would a dissected doctrine be? About as effective defensively as Ft Sumter after the end of the multi day bombardment...
    But you notice, too, none of the Mormons here renounce this Blood Atonement doctrine as false. I think they believe it.

    Leave a comment:


  • quetzloc
    replied
    the blood covenant doctrine and subsequent reactions (such as the Danites) is a major problem set which the modern LDS church has attempted to move away from. However, it is a historical reality, and if they were to remove the sermons, teachings, and portions of doctrine which discuss it, many segments of their foundational teachings would be left looking like swiss cheese. this forces them to leave the BA teachings in place, but ignore them.

    Of course, one cannot ignore cancer; it must be cut out. doing so would also gut more pertinent books.... how would it affect the HotC, D&C, etc?


    How valid would a dissected doctrine be? About as effective defensively as Ft Sumter after the end of the multi day bombardment...

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by jamesone5 View Post

    Gee I wonder what those so-called "high priests" who originally baptized them thought of that?

    Their so-called authority was not all that authoritative as it seems.

    I had a couple of experiences in baptizing others as an Elder in the Church----particularity with my own father who joined the Chruch in 1982 or so. As I look back there was no power that I was giving my own dad and it really was very silly in retrospect.

    But I am Blessed that I did my part in showing my dad the TRUE Christ, shortly before he died.
    Thank the Lord you were able to show your dad the truth.

    Leave a comment:


  • jamesone5
    replied
    Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

    Let's not forget, either, that they REBAPTIZE those who have left the cult. In fact, in the Mormon "Reformation" they REBAPTIZED all who came to Utah. Apparently the first baptism didn't "stick."
    Gee I wonder what those so-called "high priests" who originally baptized them thought of that?

    Their so-called authority was not all that authoritative as it seems.

    I had a couple of experiences in baptizing others as an Elder in the Church----particularity with my own father who joined the Chruch in 1982 or so. As I look back there was no power that I was giving my own dad and it really was very silly in retrospect.

    But I am Blessed that I did my part in showing my dad the TRUE Christ, shortly before he died.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by jamesone5 View Post

    https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/cults-groups/general-cult-groups-topics/mormonism/5261357-mormons-really-want-us-to-doubt-our-faith-in-christ?p=5372715#post5372715

    Seem like they have a hard time covering all their arguments. This link shows that all who are Baptized in the Mormon Chruch will be save.

    Or try reading this from LDS.org---provided by Ralf


    Baptism is a sacred ceremony, or ordinance, through which a person promises to follow Jesus Christ. The baptismal ordinance symbolizes the washing away of sins and is necessary to become a member of Christ’s Church. Although many Christian religions consider baptism essential, beliefs differ about how and when one should be baptized. Learn why baptism by immersion is an important, consciously made covenant that, along with the sacrament (Communion), allows an ongoing remission of sins. What is baptism?

    BAPTISM IS A COVENANT

    Baptism is much more than just a tradition or ritual; it is a solemn promise between you and God. It works like a contract: you promise to do certain things and He promises to give you certain blessings if you do them. When you are baptized, you agree to take Jesus’s name upon you (to be called a Christian), to live as a witness of Christ, and to serve Him and keep His commandments. In return, God promises to forgive your sins, give you the companionship of the Holy Spirit to comfort and guide you, and grant you eternal life. (See Mosiah 18:8–10.) BAPTISM IS A SYMBOL OF BEING BORN AGAIN AND IS PERFORMED BY IMMERSION

    The word baptism comes from a Greek word meaning to “dip” or “immerse.” The scriptures recount baptisms by immersion, including the example of Jesus, who, “when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water” (Matthew 3:16). This immersion is beautifully symbolic, not only of the washing away of sins, but of death, burial, and resurrection. Baptism signifies the end of your old way of life and birth to a life committed to Christian values (see Romans 6:3–6). BAPTISM IS AN ACT THAT CLEANSES US SO WE CAN RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST

    Although baptism is itself a significant event, this ordinance is not fully complete without receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost (or Holy Spirit). Jesus taught that “except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3:5). The gift of the Holy Ghost is given to you after your baptism so you can receive God’s help and guidance in keeping the promises you made to Him when you were baptized.

    LDS.org


    What a Religion. Seems like a book on apologetics for the Mormon Chruch is a real impossibility as so many doctrines and beliefs conflict with one another.
    Let's not forget, either, that they REBAPTIZE those who have left the cult. In fact, in the Mormon "Reformation" they REBAPTIZED all who came to Utah. Apparently the first baptism didn't "stick."

    Leave a comment:


  • jamesone5
    replied
    Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
    Evil and murderous acts have always existed in Mormonism. They hate for us to bring them up, but why shouldn't we? Evil is embedded in Mormonism Read this:

    http://lifeafter.org/salt-sermon-apo...ately-or-else/
    https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/cults-groups/general-cult-groups-topics/mormonism/5261357-mormons-really-want-us-to-doubt-our-faith-in-christ?p=5372715#post5372715

    Seem like they have a hard time covering all their arguments. This link shows that all who are Baptized in the Mormon Chruch will be save.

    Or try reading this from LDS.org---provided by Ralf


    Baptism is a sacred ceremony, or ordinance, through which a person promises to follow Jesus Christ. The baptismal ordinance symbolizes the washing away of sins and is necessary to become a member of Christ’s Church. Although many Christian religions consider baptism essential, beliefs differ about how and when one should be baptized. Learn why baptism by immersion is an important, consciously made covenant that, along with the sacrament (Communion), allows an ongoing remission of sins. What is baptism?

    BAPTISM IS A COVENANT

    Baptism is much more than just a tradition or ritual; it is a solemn promise between you and God. It works like a contract: you promise to do certain things and He promises to give you certain blessings if you do them. When you are baptized, you agree to take Jesus’s name upon you (to be called a Christian), to live as a witness of Christ, and to serve Him and keep His commandments. In return, God promises to forgive your sins, give you the companionship of the Holy Spirit to comfort and guide you, and grant you eternal life. (See Mosiah 18:8–10.) BAPTISM IS A SYMBOL OF BEING BORN AGAIN AND IS PERFORMED BY IMMERSION

    The word baptism comes from a Greek word meaning to “dip” or “immerse.” The scriptures recount baptisms by immersion, including the example of Jesus, who, “when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water” (Matthew 3:16). This immersion is beautifully symbolic, not only of the washing away of sins, but of death, burial, and resurrection. Baptism signifies the end of your old way of life and birth to a life committed to Christian values (see Romans 6:3–6). BAPTISM IS AN ACT THAT CLEANSES US SO WE CAN RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST

    Although baptism is itself a significant event, this ordinance is not fully complete without receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost (or Holy Spirit). Jesus taught that “except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3:5). The gift of the Holy Ghost is given to you after your baptism so you can receive God’s help and guidance in keeping the promises you made to Him when you were baptized.

    LDS.org


    What a Religion. Seems like a book on apologetics for the Mormon Chruch is a real impossibility as so many doctrines and beliefs conflict with one another.
    Last edited by jamesone5; 07-09-18, 10:05 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Evil and murderous acts have always existed in Mormonism. They hate for us to bring them up, but why shouldn't we? Evil is embedded in Mormonism Read this:

    http://lifeafter.org/salt-sermon-apo...ately-or-else/

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Not to mention this notorious Mormon-linked murder:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_...nner_of_Heaven

    Be aware if you are a dissenter.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Who can forget the Kirtland Temple murders in Ohio: http://www.news-herald.com/article/H...NEWS/141239955

    or the LeBaron Mormon cult murders in Mexico and the Southwest Us: http://articles.latimes.com/1992-09-...lebaron-family

    Death has always stalked dissenters in fundie Mormon cults.

    Leave a comment:

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