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The Book of Mormon versus Joseph Smith

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  • The Book of Mormon versus Joseph Smith

    The Book of Mormon completely contradicts Joseph Smith on God is an Exalted man, he is three gods and The rock is revelation

    "God himself was



    once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder



    heavens. That is the great secret... …I am going to tell you how God came to be



    God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will



    refute that idea
    , and take away the veil, so that you may see. … It is the



    first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and



    to know...that he was once a man like us.... Here, then, is eternal life - to



    know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods



    yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done



    before you... (“King Follett Discourse,” Journal of Discourses 6:3-4, also in



    Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-346, and History of the Church, vol.



    6, 305-307,)"











    As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.



    Author: Lorenzo Snow



    Source: Gospel Through The Ages



    Chapter: 43



    Page: 105











    Moroni 7:22 For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting , behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ; and in Christ there should come every good thing.











    2 Nephi 27:23



    For behold, I am god; and I am a God of miracles; and I will show unto the world that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and I work not among the children of men save it be according to their faith.







    2 Nephi 29:9



    And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.











    Moroni 8:18 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.















    Mormon 9:9 For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever , and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing?







    Mormon 9:19



    And if there were miracles wrought then, why has God ceased to be a God of miracles and yet be an unchanging Being? And behold, I say unto you he changeth not; if so he would cease to be God; and he ceaseth not to be God, and is a God of miracles.”











    2 Nephi 19:9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.







    Moroni 7:22



    For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting, behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ; and in Christ there should come every good thing.















    By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them; D&C 20:17







    "I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370)







    2 Nephi 31:



    21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.







    Alma 11:



    44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.











    Mormon 7:



    7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.







    The Testimony of Three Witnesses



    And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.



    Oliver Cowdery



    David Whitmer



    Martin Harris







    1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.







    Doctrine and Covenants 20 :



    28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.







    Book of Moses 1:



    6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.







    John was a priest after the order of Aaron, and he held keys of the priesthood, and came forth preaching repentance and baptism, for the remission of sins, but at the same time cries out, "There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose," and Christ came according to the words of John, and he was greater than John, because he held the keys of the Melchizedek Priesthood and kingdom of God, and had before revealed the priesthood to Moses; yet Christ was baptized by John to fulfill all righteousness; and Jesus in his teaching says: "Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." What rock? Revelation.(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 273-74. )







    Helaman 5:12



    12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.
    And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

  • #2
    Great post, but in the future, could you please put your paragraphs closer together? It would make for easier reading.

    And most of us on here know that the BoM contradicts present day Mormon doctrines in many areas. No surprise there, for a cult like Mormonism.
    "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
    "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
    "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
    "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
    "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
      Great post, but in the future, could you please put your paragraphs closer together? It would make for easier reading.

      And most of us on here know that the BoM contradicts present day Mormon doctrines in many areas. No surprise there, for a cult like Mormonism.
      Very true the Book of Mormon selfdoms agrees with Mormon teachings and normally contradicts them

      And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

      Comment


      • #4
        The BoM has the Trinity in it--despite a few Mormons on here protesting to the contrary--though it also strays into modalism in a few places. But Mormonism denies the Triune Godhead and instead, has three gods in one godhead.

        It also condemns polygamy in David and Solomon, except to 'raise up seed", yet in the D and C, it extols them for practicing it. The BoM is bascially monotheistic but Mormonism is polytheistic in nature.

        The BoM says that Mary conceived Jesus by the power of the Holy Ghost (slightly paraphrasing), but Mormonism today has heavenly father directly begetting Jesus in Mary's womb--though they are cagey and won't outright admit that sex was used.

        The BoM has God creating everything by the power of his word, but now, it has God merely "organizing" matter. Lots of contradictions. I think you have listed many on here and had comparisons between the BoM and other Mormon teachings with the Bible and what it teaches.
        "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
        "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
        "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
        "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
        "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
          The BoM has the Trinity in it--despite a few Mormons on here protesting to the contrary--though it also strays into modalism in a few places. But Mormonism denies the Triune Godhead and instead, has three gods in one godhead.

          It also condemns polygamy in David and Solomon, except to 'raise up seed", yet in the D and C, it extols them for practicing it. The BoM is bascially monotheistic but Mormonism is polytheistic in nature.

          The BoM says that Mary conceived Jesus by the power of the Holy Ghost (slightly paraphrasing), but Mormonism today has heavenly father directly begetting Jesus in Mary's womb--though they are cagey and won't outright admit that sex was used.

          The BoM has God creating everything by the power of his word, but now, it has God merely "organizing" matter. Lots of contradictions. I think you have listed many on here and had comparisons between the BoM and other Mormon teachings with the Bible and what it teaches.
          Very true Bonnie, that's why I don't understand the hyperbole and smoke and mirrors concerning the Book Of Mormon by Mormonism




          Pearl Of Great Price

          34 He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;



          Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.”


          And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
            The Book of Mormon completely contradicts Joseph Smith on God is an Exalted man, he is three gods and The rock is revelation

            "God himself was


            once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder


            heavens. That is the great secret... …I am going to tell you how God came to be


            God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will


            refute that idea
            , and take away the veil, so that you may see. … It is the


            first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and


            to know...that he was once a man like us.... Here, then, is eternal life - to


            know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods


            yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done


            before you... (“King Follett Discourse,” Journal of Discourses 6:3-4, also in


            Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-346, and History of the Church, vol.


            6, 305-307,)"


            As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.


            Author: Lorenzo Snow


            Source: Gospel Through The Ages


            Chapter: 43


            Page: 105


            Moroni 7:22 For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting , behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ; and in Christ there should come every good thing.


            2 Nephi 27:23


            For behold, I am god; and I am a God of miracles; and I will show unto the world that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and I work not among the children of men save it be according to their faith.


            2 Nephi 29:9


            And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.


            Moroni 8:18 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.


            Mormon 9:9 For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever , and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing?

            ​​​​​
            Mormon 9:19


            And if there were miracles wrought then, why has God ceased to be a God of miracles and yet be an unchanging Being? And behold, I say unto you he changeth not; if so he would cease to be God; and he ceaseth not to be God, and is a God of miracles.”


            2 Nephi 19:9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.


            Moroni 7:22


            For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting, behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ; and in Christ there should come every good thing.


            By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them; D&C 20:17


            "I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370)


            2 Nephi 31:


            21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.


            Alma 11:


            44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.


            Mormon 7:


            7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.


            The Testimony of Three Witnesses


            And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.


            Oliver Cowdery


            David Whitmer


            Martin Harris


            1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.


            Doctrine and Covenants 20 :


            28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.


            Book of Moses 1:


            6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.


            John was a priest after the order of Aaron, and he held keys of the priesthood, and came forth preaching repentance and baptism, for the remission of sins, but at the same time cries out, "There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose," and Christ came according to the words of John, and he was greater than John, because he held the keys of the Melchizedek Priesthood and kingdom of God, and had before revealed the priesthood to Moses; yet Christ was baptized by John to fulfill all righteousness; and Jesus in his teaching says: "Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." What rock? Revelation.(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 273-74. )


            Helaman 5:12


            12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.

            Oh no, not again! ____EDIT image violation
            Last edited by 4Him; 07-13-18, 10:58 AM.
            zerinus
            Keep Calm!
            I am a Mormon!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by zerinus View Post


              Oh no, not again! ____ edit
              might have been better to use a gif of a sleeping tapir strapped to a chariot.
              Last edited by 4Him; 07-13-18, 10:58 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
                The BoM... also condemns polygamy ....
                Are you wishing the founder of YOUR church would have read the BOM? That way, maybe the founder of YOUR church wouldn't have been such a big advocate of polygamy among Christians--polygamy that one sometimes should LIE about for the good of the church?
                ...whenever a person's religious conversation dwells... on the faults of other people's religions, he is in a bad condition-C.S. Lewis

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
                  The Book of Mormon completely contradicts Joseph Smith on God is an Exalted man, he is three gods and The rock is revelation
                  Hi Ivanhoe,
                  As you probably know this question is an old chestnut, but perhaps we can look at it from the perspective of Jesus Christ. I realize you've included the Trinity in your OP, but I'll just discuss the unchanging nature of God here. Hebrews 13:8 states that "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." But Luke 2:52 reads "And Jesus increased in wisdom and in years, and in divine and human favor." So how is Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever, yet also increasing in wisdom and in divine favor? In addition Jesus Christ is growing older, which is obvious from anyone reading about his life. Isn't this also a change? God, Jesus Christ, as well as ourselves change physically. We grow older, wiser, and hopefully more righteous, yet we are eternal and unchanged from the beginning.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by urloony View Post

                    Hi Ivanhoe,
                    As you probably know this question is an old chestnut, but perhaps we can look at it from the perspective of Jesus Christ. I realize you've included the Trinity in your OP, but I'll just discuss the unchanging nature of God here. Hebrews 13:8 states that "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." But Luke 2:52 reads "And Jesus increased in wisdom and in years, and in divine and human favor." So how is Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever, yet also increasing in wisdom and in divine favor? In addition Jesus Christ is growing older, which is obvious from anyone reading about his life. Isn't this also a change? God, Jesus Christ, as well as ourselves change physically. We grow older, wiser, and hopefully more righteous, yet we are eternal and unchanged from the beginning.
                    Do you think Joseph Smith was referring to God the Father or Jesus ?

                    Jesus was subservient to God The Father as a man


                    Jesus Stripped his equality with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit and humbled himself to the form of a slave.

                    ”Who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version

                    “For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.” 2 Cor. 8:9

                    Hebrews 12
                    1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

                    In the original language “for the joy” means “he exchanged Joy for Shame”.

                    Thank you Jesus for coming down from your throne in heaven where you were the Almighty God, “EL SHADDAI”, The Great I AM creator of all things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, thrones, dominions, and principalities and powers . You were rich yet you became poor. You were Almighty yet you emptied yourself and became a humble slave, you exchanged joy for sorrow , sorrow by dying a shameful death on a cross as a criminal even thou you had no sin . Thank you Jesus


                    And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post

                      Very true Bonnie, that's why I don't understand the hyperbole and smoke and mirrors concerning the Book Of Mormon by Mormonism




                      Pearl Of Great Price

                      34 He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;



                      Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.”

                      As Markk has stated, Mormons must keep their "testimony' that the church is true and JS is a prophet from God, at all cost. Even at the cost of the truth, it appears.
                      "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                      "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                      "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                      "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                      "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
                        Great post, but in the future, could you please put your paragraphs closer together? It would make for easier reading.

                        And most of us on here know that the BoM contradicts present day Mormon doctrines in many areas. No surprise there, for a cult like Mormonism.
                        That is only because Mormons are trying to become more mainstream by denying the very doctrines that Joseph Smith taught. Just like followers of Islam lie their rear ends off denying the basic fundamentals of Islam (death to the infidel being the main one) in order to deceive the ignorant into thinking Islam is a religion of peace.

                        God was never a man in the beginning (then who created the universe if He was BORN in it???) and to say that man can become gods is denying the one basic biblical fact that there is only ONE GOD.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TheMatrixHasU71 View Post

                          That is only because Mormons are trying to become more mainstream by denying the very doctrines that Joseph Smith taught. Just like followers of Islam lie their rear ends off denying the basic fundamentals of Islam (death to the infidel being the main one) in order to deceive the ignorant into thinking Islam is a religion of peace.

                          God was never a man in the beginning (then who created the universe if He was BORN in it???) and to say that man can become gods is denying the one basic biblical fact that there is only ONE GOD.
                          THANK YOU, Matrix!!!!

                          Of course, men cannot become gods. The whole idea is beyond ridiculous!
                          God Who was made flesh for me and nailed upon a lonely tree
                          What gift can I bring that would suffice to repay such great sacrifice?
                          All that I am I lay at Your throne. Make me, Lord, Your very Own.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Barrd View Post
                            THANK YOU, Matrix!!!!
                            No comment necessary. Let those who have eyes, see.


                            Of course, men cannot become gods. The whole idea is beyond ridiculous!
                            Here is a vast library of Christian writings, by Christian theologians far more educated than you could become in an entire lifetime, that refutes your uneducated opinion:



                            http://articulifidei.blogspot.com/20...h-fathers.html
                            ...whenever a person's religious conversation dwells... on the faults of other people's religions, he is in a bad condition-C.S. Lewis

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by NRA-Jeff View Post

                              No comment necessary. Let those who have eyes, see.




                              Here is a vast library of Christian writings, by Christian theologians far more educated than you could become in an entire lifetime, that refutes your uneducated opinion:



                              http://articulifidei.blogspot.com/20...h-fathers.html
                              weren't all these men born after 70AD which means they were all in apostacy according to Mormonism, even thou these selections are taken out of context
                              And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

                              Comment

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