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Joseph Smith Was Definitely Socioipathic

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  • Joseph Smith Was Definitely Socioipathic

    "Was Joseph Smith a sociopath? Of course I cannot say for sure, however the evidence to say that he was is quite compelling. Joseph Smith was a convicted con artist who, merely a year following his release from court, began claiming that he was a chosen prophet of God, selected to uncover the truths about the Gospel and the anthropology of the North American continent. His story appears to be wrought with lies and logical leaps that, when put under Ockham’s Razor, seem to strongly support the idea that he was a sociopath. Controlling and manipulative, deceitful and uncompromisingly selfish, treating women as property to be controlled rather than people to be cherished, Smith seems to fall right in line with the major diagnostic criteria for the disorder and thus can reasonably be theorized to have been one."

    source:
    Was Mormonism Founder Joseph Smith A Sociopath? crcarlino


    Here are some of the characteristics of a sociopath:

    "
    • Glibness and Superficial Charm
    • Manipulative and Conning
      They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
    • Grandiose Sense of Self
      Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
    • Pathological Lying
      Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
    • Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
      A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
    • Shallow Emotions
      When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
    • Incapacity for Love
    • Need for Stimulation
      Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
    • Callousness/Lack of Empathy
      Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
    • Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
      Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
    • Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
      Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
    • Irresponsibility/Unreliability
      Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.
    • Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
      Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
    • Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
      Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.
    • Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
      Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily."
    and
    1. "Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
    2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
    3. Authoritarian
    4. Secretive
    5. Paranoid
    6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
    7. Conventional appearance
    8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
    9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
    10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
    11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
    12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
    13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
    14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
    15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world"
    (source: Profile of a Sociopath, mcafee.cc)

    I think anybody who has not sold out to Joseph Smith can read the above qualities and identify them with Joseph Smith. He was a CONTROL FREAK. For instance, when immigrants were coming to Nauvoo, he arranged that any who did not buy their real estate through him (he was the Trustee in Trust for the cult) was to be excommunicated. What does that say, folks? In his world, Smith was the center, the focus, and nobody was to intrude on that delusion. Smith was crowned king over Israel by his sycophantic Council of 50 - that in itself points to the fact that Smith was off the charts as far as narcissism goes (one of the manifestations of sociopathy).

    If you read Smith's personal papers, he always justified his crimes by claiming to be a victim. The imaginary "mob" was always pursuing him - and today's Mormons pick up where he left off. Everybody else is responsible for their behavior and strange beliefs - everybody is throwing rocks at them, etc. Self-justification is a quality we often see in cult-like behavior.

    Let's hone in on one detail of a sociopath's profile: "
    • Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
      Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
    Joseph Smith fits that criteria with no ifs, ands or buts. He was terribly promiscuous (we could call him an STD stallion) using women to satisfy his ongoing lust by manipulation; he abused prepubescent girls (child sexual abuse) and he may have raped Fanny Alger and impregnated her (or if it was consensual, he mentally raped that poor 1 year old girl living in his family).

    Here is another quality of a sociopath: "Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim." Wow, this might be called grooming, or preparing the victim for sexual abuse. Smith had a great propensity to invite young girls to live in his intimate family unit (helping Emma!). Gradually he endeared himself to them, and then pounced like some sex-driven Tom Cat. He used his office (that of prophet) and head honcho of the cult to manipulate these poor girls into believing he would be slain by an angel if he didn't marry them. For instance,

    "Joseph told Lucy that the marriage would have to be secret, but that he would acknowledge her as his wife, “beyond the Rocky Mountains”. He then gave Lucy an ultimatum, “It is a command of God to you. I will give you until tomorrow to decide this matter. If you reject this message the gate will be closed forever against you.” Lucy said, “This aroused every drop of scotch in my veins…I felt at this moment that I was called to place myself upon the altar a living sacrifice, perhaps to brook the world in disgrace and incur the displeasure and contempt of my youthful companions; all my dreams of happiness blown to the four winds, this was too much, the thought was unbearable." (Was Mormonism Founder Joseph Smith A Sociopath? crcarlino, cited above)

    If Smith was on the up and up, folks, why did poor Lucy Walker have to keep her "marriage" to Smith a "secret." This is how pedophiles work - they demand that their victim keep their sexual relationship secret so that they are not found out and prosecuted. Smith was a criminal, and his sick behavior and secretiveness was to be kept from the one "authority figure" he wanted to please (not because of love, but out of fear), Emma Smith. Divorce wouldn't have fitted in with his goals, see number 4 above.

    Joseph Smith was undoubtedly a "grifter." This article explains:


    By Christopher Ketcham

    October 19, 2012 "Counterpunch" -- In the beginning, as we know, was the Word of one Joseph Smith Jr., founder of the Mormon Church, finder of the so-called Golden Plates from which he was able to translate the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith today in Mormon theology is considered “the prophet, priest and king.” When Mitt Romney avows “My faith is the faith of my fathers—I will be true to them,” the father he invokes is Smith.

    This should be highly troubling. In the few authoritative biographies of the prophet Smith – the ones not censored by the Mormon establishment – he comes off both as a good-natured grifter and a venomous sociopath. Kay Burningham, ex-Mormon and author of “An American Fraud: One Lawyer’s Case against Mormonism,” writes that Mormonism “was founded on deception, and continues to build upon that deception.” Its founders – Joseph Smith and family – “were opportunists, driven to create an organization where they could acquire the social status and financial resources that they lacked.” Historian and ex-Mormon Will Bagley, author of many books of Mormon history, says Mormonism can be interpreted critically as “a religious Ponzi scheme and swindle.”

    The swindle starts in 1829, after Joe Smith claims to “find” the Golden Plates buried in a mound in upstate New York. According to Smith, the story on the plates had been carved in 421 A.D. by a lost tribe of white people living among Native Americans. Smith was mighty pleased: He had found God’s word, and he would bring the good news to the world. Smith, a semi-literate farm boy schooled in the soaring language of the Bible, had of course invented the Book of Mormon out of his perfervid imagination.

    This was no small achievement. He was a smart guy – like most grifters. And he had a family schooling in the art of cheating the gullible: His father, Joseph Sr., had been repeatedly charged with currency counterfeiting in Vermont in the 1820s.

    Joseph Jr. himself was hauled into court in the northeastern U.S. on multiple occasions, accused of confidence games and charged with fraud. He was described in a New York court proceeding, in 1826, as “a disorderly person and an impostor.” One of his preferred cons involved the help of his brother Hyrum. While visiting a neighboring household, Hyrum would secretly hide a valuable heirloom. When days later the victim complained that they could not find the prized object, Hyrum came to the rescue: He volunteered his brother Joe Jr. to show up, for a small fee, and put “magic stones” into a hat. Joe would then put the hat over his face, and stare into the stone-filled darkness to see where the lost object was – the location of which his faithful brother had already provided.

    Smith said his ethical rule was, “When the Lord commands, do it.” This was convenient, as it was decreed, by Joseph Smith, that the Lord would only communicate with – you guessed it – Joseph Smith. Early on, he receives a message from the Lord about “plural marriage”: God commanded that all Mormon men, especially Joseph Smith, take multiple wives and establish the tradition of Mormon polygamy. Even his wife at the time, the first among many, was skeptical.

    On and on it goes. The Mormon sect grows throughout the 1830s and 1840s, and so do the scams: Land theft, bank fraud, cattle rustling. Historian Will Bagley describes what happened when the Mormons, fleeing westward, settled in Missouri and Illinois: “After stirring up a religious civil war in Missouri and being exiled to Illinois, Smith founded a kingdom on the Mississippi at Nauvoo, Illinois. Having secured a charter that made him ruler of a city state and a wealthy land developer, Smith raised a private army, made himself America’s first lieutenant general since George Washington, and began seducing women and barely pubescent girls with an abandon that would make Bill Clinton blush.”

    source: http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle32806.htm

    In the end, I believe, that those who study such things must conclude that Joseph Smith was mentally ill. He seemed devoid of a normal conscience, his romantic relationships were one-sided and shallow, in favor of Smith. He operated on an immoral level, and today's Mormons are so blinded by their devotion to him that they are unable to make one negative comment. Smith has become the Mormon deity, but a deity whose clay legs are crumbling daily.






    Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

  • #2
    Way too verbose to be tempting to read.

    Like "War and Peace. "

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by NRA-Jeff View Post
      Way too verbose to be tempting to read.

      Like "War and Peace. "
      Don't bother Jeff. (Interesting, however, that you read the Book of Mormon, one of the most boring books ever written!)
      Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
        "Was Joseph Smith a sociopath? Of course I cannot say for sure, however the evidence to say that he was is quite compelling. Joseph Smith was a convicted con artist who, merely a year following his release from court, began claiming that he was a chosen prophet of God, selected to uncover the truths about the Gospel and the anthropology of the North American continent. His story appears to be wrought with lies and logical leaps that, when put under Ockham’s Razor, seem to strongly support the idea that he was a sociopath. Controlling and manipulative, deceitful and uncompromisingly selfish, treating women as property to be controlled rather than people to be cherished, Smith seems to fall right in line with the major diagnostic criteria for the disorder and thus can reasonably be theorized to have been one."

        source:
        Was Mormonism Founder Joseph Smith A Sociopath? crcarlino


        Here are some of the characteristics of a sociopath:

        "
        • Glibness and Superficial Charm
        • Manipulative and Conning
          They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
        • Grandiose Sense of Self
          Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
        • Pathological Lying
          Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
        • Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
          A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
        • Shallow Emotions
          When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
        • Incapacity for Love
        • Need for Stimulation
          Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
        • Callousness/Lack of Empathy
          Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
        • Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
          Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
        • Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
          Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
        • Irresponsibility/Unreliability
          Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.
        • Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
          Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
        • Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
          Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.
        • Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
          Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily."
        and
        1. "Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
        2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
        3. Authoritarian
        4. Secretive
        5. Paranoid
        6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
        7. Conventional appearance
        8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
        9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
        10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
        11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
        12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
        13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
        14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
        15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world"
        (source: Profile of a Sociopath, mcafee.cc)

        I think anybody who has not sold out to Joseph Smith can read the above qualities and identify them with Joseph Smith. He was a CONTROL FREAK. For instance, when immigrants were coming to Nauvoo, he arranged that any who did not buy their real estate through him (he was the Trustee in Trust for the cult) was to be excommunicated. What does that say, folks? In his world, Smith was the center, the focus, and nobody was to intrude on that delusion. Smith was crowned king over Israel by his sycophantic Council of 50 - that in itself points to the fact that Smith was off the charts as far as narcissism goes (one of the manifestations of sociopathy).

        If you read Smith's personal papers, he always justified his crimes by claiming to be a victim. The imaginary "mob" was always pursuing him - and today's Mormons pick up where he left off. Everybody else is responsible for their behavior and strange beliefs - everybody is throwing rocks at them, etc. Self-justification is a quality we often see in cult-like behavior.

        Let's hone in on one detail of a sociopath's profile: "
        • Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
          Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
        Joseph Smith fits that criteria with no ifs, ands or buts. He was terribly promiscuous (we could call him an STD stallion) using women to satisfy his ongoing lust by manipulation; he abused prepubescent girls (child sexual abuse) and he may have raped Fanny Alger and impregnated her (or if it was consensual, he mentally raped that poor 16 year old girl living in his family).

        Here is another quality of a sociopath: "Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim." Wow, this might be called grooming, or preparing the victim for sexual abuse. Smith had a great propensity to invite young girls to live in his intimate family unit (helping Emma!). Gradually he endeared himself to them, and then pounced like some sex-driven Tom Cat. He used his office (that of prophet) and head honcho of the cult to manipulate these poor girls into believing he would be slain by an angel if he didn't marry them. For instance,

        "Joseph told Lucy that the marriage would have to be secret, but that he would acknowledge her as his wife, “beyond the Rocky Mountains”. He then gave Lucy an ultimatum, “It is a command of God to you. I will give you until tomorrow to decide this matter. If you reject this message the gate will be closed forever against you.” Lucy said, “This aroused every drop of scotch in my veins…I felt at this moment that I was called to place myself upon the altar a living sacrifice, perhaps to brook the world in disgrace and incur the displeasure and contempt of my youthful companions; all my dreams of happiness blown to the four winds, this was too much, the thought was unbearable." (Was Mormonism Founder Joseph Smith A Sociopath? crcarlino, cited above)

        If Smith was on the up and up, folks, why did poor Lucy Walker have to keep her "marriage" to Smith a "secret." This is how pedophiles work - they demand that their victim keep their sexual relationship secret so that they are not found out and prosecuted. Smith was a criminal, and his sick behavior and secretiveness was to be kept from the one "authority figure" he wanted to please (not because of love, but out of fear), Emma Smith. Divorce wouldn't have fitted in with his goals, see number 4 above.

        Joseph Smith was undoubtedly a "grifter." This article explains:


        By Christopher Ketcham

        October 19, 2012 "Counterpunch" -- In the beginning, as we know, was the Word of one Joseph Smith Jr., founder of the Mormon Church, finder of the so-called Golden Plates from which he was able to translate the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith today in Mormon theology is considered “the prophet, priest and king.” When Mitt Romney avows “My faith is the faith of my fathers—I will be true to them,” the father he invokes is Smith.

        This should be highly troubling. In the few authoritative biographies of the prophet Smith – the ones not censored by the Mormon establishment – he comes off both as a good-natured grifter and a venomous sociopath. Kay Burningham, ex-Mormon and author of “An American Fraud: One Lawyer’s Case against Mormonism,” writes that Mormonism “was founded on deception, and continues to build upon that deception.” Its founders – Joseph Smith and family – “were opportunists, driven to create an organization where they could acquire the social status and financial resources that they lacked.” Historian and ex-Mormon Will Bagley, author of many books of Mormon history, says Mormonism can be interpreted critically as “a religious Ponzi scheme and swindle.”

        The swindle starts in 1829, after Joe Smith claims to “find” the Golden Plates buried in a mound in upstate New York. According to Smith, the story on the plates had been carved in 421 A.D. by a lost tribe of white people living among Native Americans. Smith was mighty pleased: He had found God’s word, and he would bring the good news to the world. Smith, a semi-literate farm boy schooled in the soaring language of the Bible, had of course invented the Book of Mormon out of his perfervid imagination.

        This was no small achievement. He was a smart guy – like most grifters. And he had a family schooling in the art of cheating the gullible: His father, Joseph Sr., had been repeatedly charged with currency counterfeiting in Vermont in the 1820s.

        Joseph Jr. himself was hauled into court in the northeastern U.S. on multiple occasions, accused of confidence games and charged with fraud. He was described in a New York court proceeding, in 1826, as “a disorderly person and an impostor.” One of his preferred cons involved the help of his brother Hyrum. While visiting a neighboring household, Hyrum would secretly hide a valuable heirloom. When days later the victim complained that they could not find the prized object, Hyrum came to the rescue: He volunteered his brother Joe Jr. to show up, for a small fee, and put “magic stones” into a hat. Joe would then put the hat over his face, and stare into the stone-filled darkness to see where the lost object was – the location of which his faithful brother had already provided.

        Smith said his ethical rule was, “When the Lord commands, do it.” This was convenient, as it was decreed, by Joseph Smith, that the Lord would only communicate with – you guessed it – Joseph Smith. Early on, he receives a message from the Lord about “plural marriage”: God commanded that all Mormon men, especially Joseph Smith, take multiple wives and establish the tradition of Mormon polygamy. Even his wife at the time, the first among many, was skeptical.

        On and on it goes. The Mormon sect grows throughout the 1830s and 1840s, and so do the scams: Land theft, bank fraud, cattle rustling. Historian Will Bagley describes what happened when the Mormons, fleeing westward, settled in Missouri and Illinois: “After stirring up a religious civil war in Missouri and being exiled to Illinois, Smith founded a kingdom on the Mississippi at Nauvoo, Illinois. Having secured a charter that made him ruler of a city state and a wealthy land developer, Smith raised a private army, made himself America’s first lieutenant general since George Washington, and began seducing women and barely pubescent girls with an abandon that would make Bill Clinton blush.”

        source: http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle32806.htm

        In the end, I believe, that those who study such things must conclude that Joseph Smith was mentally ill. He seemed devoid of a normal conscience, his romantic relationships were one-sided and shallow, in favor of Smith. He operated on an immoral level, and today's Mormons are so blinded by their devotion to him that they are unable to make one negative comment. Smith has become the Mormon deity, but a deity whose clay legs are crumbling daily.





        I had to correct Fanny's age.
        Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

          Joseph Smith Was Definitely Socioipathic
          Joseph Smith was definitely a great prophet. Read the Book of Mormon to learn more!
          zerinus
          I am a Mormon!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by zerinus View Post

            Joseph Smith was definitely a great prophet. Read the Book of Mormon to learn more!
            And he was definitely a sociopath. Read the OP to know more.
            Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

              And he was definitely a sociopath. Read the OP to know more.
              If he was a prophet then he was a prophet, end of story. And the Book of Mormon testifies that he was.
              zerinus
              I am a Mormon!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by zerinus View Post

                If he was a prophet then he was a prophet, end of story. And the Book of Mormon testifies that he was.
                So, you are saying that a true prophet can be SOCIOPATHIC? Don't you think that that would prove Smith was no more a prophet than Koresh, another sociopathic impostor?
                Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

                  So, you are saying that a true prophet can be SOCIOPATHIC? Don't you think that that would prove Smith was no more a prophet than Koresh, another sociopathic impostor?
                  What you call him is not important. What he was is important, and I have told you what that was.
                  zerinus
                  I am a Mormon!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by zerinus View Post

                    If he was a prophet then he was a prophet, end of story. And the Book of Mormon testifies that he was.
                    In what way does the Book of Mormon testify to anything about Joseph Smith?
                    Arise, O Lord, and go to thy resting place, thou and the ark of thy might. [Psalm 132:8 (RSVCE)]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

                      In what way does the Book of Mormon testify to anything about Joseph Smith?
                      Joseph revealed/translated the Book of Mormon, which is an ancient record that testified of Christ.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CTR-Lloyd View Post

                        Joseph revealed/translated the Book of Mormon, which is an ancient record that testified of Christ.
                        Yes, I'm aware of that, but how does that "testify" to Joseph Smith being a prophet?

                        Jerome translated biblical source texts to compile the Latin Vulgate, but no one refers to him as a prophet, nor does the text speak of him personally.
                        Arise, O Lord, and go to thy resting place, thou and the ark of thy might. [Psalm 132:8 (RSVCE)]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

                          Yes, I'm aware of that, but how does that "testify" to Joseph Smith being a prophet?

                          Jerome translated biblical source texts to compile the Latin Vulgate, but no one refers to him as a prophet, nor does the text speak of him personally.
                          He acted as a seer and revelator, in bringing forth scripture that he could only translate with the gift and power of God.

                          God called him as a prophet. The Book of Mormon is a manifestation of his calling. It can be tested.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CTR-Lloyd View Post
                            He acted as a seer and revelator, in bringing forth scripture that he could only translate with the gift and power of God.

                            God called him as a prophet. The Book of Mormon is a manifestation of his calling. It can be tested.
                            I understand all that, Lloyd. What I'm having difficulty grasping is the notion that the Book of Mormon itself "testifies" to Smith's designation as a Prophet. As far as I know, the chronology of the Book of Mormon ends around 400AD.
                            Arise, O Lord, and go to thy resting place, thou and the ark of thy might. [Psalm 132:8 (RSVCE)]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The text of the Book of Mormon From 1 Ne 1 to Moroni Ch 10 then as you put it does not testify directly to him being a prophet. The Preface, including his visits with the angel Moroni, and the testimonies of the 3 and 8 witnesses may be what you are after.

                              Comment

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