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Why Did Sidney Rigdon Know About the Book of Mormon Before it was Published?

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  • Why Did Sidney Rigdon Know About the Book of Mormon Before it was Published?

    You know I have really low tolerance for Mormons who make huge claims for he Book of Mormon being of divine origin, when it is plainly a piece of fiction, and not a very good one at that. The hand of Sidney Rigdon and his expanded Campbellism is seen throughout the book, although Mormons don't seem to recognize that because they live in such a closed environment that admits little historical research of 19th century theology. Their beliefs are not informed by independent research, but by the lavish myth-makers of their cult who promote pseudo-archaeological and pseudo-historical data that is swallowed up by the gullible (and maybe the not so gullible who stay in the cult for cultural or conjugal reasons).

    Now, let's put on our thinking caps folks. If Sidney Rigdon had nothing to do with the creation of the Book of Mormon, why did he predict that it was on the horizon months before it was published? Was Rigdon a prophet (he did claim to channel the son of Phineas)? Was Rigdon crazy, plain and simple? I think Rigdon had severe psychological issues, some possibly related to a tumble he took off of a horse earlier in life. He skipped from one denomination to another, ended up in the Campbellites until Alexander Campbell rejected Rigdon's charismatic views of the "restoration of all things." Rigdon saw in Smith a tool to be used in furthering his own brand of Campbellism, rejected by Campbell and Stone. Rigdon was an apostate from the Baptists and the Campbellites. His only saving grace, apparently, was that he was an accomplished orator, and we have to give him credit for not caving into Joey Smith's polygamy teachings. The remnants of Rigdonism are found today in the Bickertonite cult of Mormonism (who by the way, are a lot nicer than the Brighamites - I can personally attest to that). They mostly reside in the Susquehanna River area, but have outposts in other parts of the world. The funny thing is that there are so many Italian names in their membership, which I'll have to research some day. Interestingly, they hold to the two persons in the godhead, with the Holy Ghost the "common mind" between the two persons, which appears in Lecture Five (now eliminated from D&C), and authored by none other than the apostate Rigdon. Those who have researched Campbellism know that they are shaky on the Trinity.

    Read how Rigdon predicted the Book of Mormon:

    http://www.mormonthink.com/mormonstudiesrigdon.htm#22

    And if some Mormon wishes to respond, I hope they will take the time to at least read the link. I'm so sick and tired of worthless responses by those who are unable to digest facts, and think that hyperbolic bologna will see them through! What a tragic element we encounter in the refusal of Mormons to even research facts. But, then many of them are genetically linked to early Mormons who were all about "experience" and little about anything requiring the use of the brain.
    Last edited by Catherine Aurelia; 09-12-18, 09:20 AM.
    Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

  • #2
    Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
    You know I have really low tolerance for Mormons who make huge claims for he Book of Mormon being of divine origin, when it is plainly a piece of fiction, and not a very good one at that. The hand of Sidney Rigdon and his expanded Campbellism is seen throughout the book, although Mormons don't seem to recognize that because they live in such a closed environment that admit little historical research of 19th century theology. Their beliefs are not informed by independent research, but by the lavish myth-makers of their cult who promote pseudo-archaeological and pseudo-historical data that is swallowed up by the gullible (and maybe the not so gullible who stay in the cult for cultural or conjugal reasons).

    Now, let's put on our thinking caps folks. If Sidney Rigdon had nothing to do with the creation of the Book of Mormon, why did he predict that it was on the horizon months before it was published. Was Rigdon a prophet (he did claim to channel the son of Phineas)? Was Rigdon crazy, plain and simple? I think Rigdon had severe psychological issues, some possibly related to a tumble he took off of a horse earlier in life. He skipped from one denomination to another, ended up in the Campbellites until Alexander Campbell rejected Rigdon's charismatic views or the "restoration of all things." Rigdon saw in Smith a tool to be used in furthering his own brand of Campbellism, rejected by Campbell and Stone. Rigdon was an apostate from the Baptists and the Campbellites. His only saving grace, apparently, was that he was an accomplished orator, and we have to give him credit for not caving into Joey Smith's polygamy teachings. The remnants of Rigdonism are found today in the Bickertonite cult of Mormnism (who by the way, are a lot nicer than the Brighamites - I can personally attest to that).

    Read how Rigdon predicted the Book of Mormon:

    http://www.mormonthink.com/mormonstudiesrigdon.htm#22

    And if some Mormon wishes to respond, I hope they will take the time to at least read the link. I'm so sick and tired of worthless responses by those who are unable to digest facts, and think that hyperbolic bologna will see them through! What a tragic element we encounter in the refusal of Mormons to even research facts. But, then many of them are genetically linked to early Mormons who were all about "experience" and little about anything requiring the use of the brain.
    Clearly CA does not want to deal with Word Print, statistical analysis of style, which would make it impossible for JS, Sidney Rigdon or others to have been involved as authors.

    The initial Book of Mormon wordprint studies were carried out by Larsen, Rencher, and Layton. They compared twenty-four Book of Mormon authors (each having at least 1,000 words) to each other, and concluded on the basis of three separate statistical tests that these authors were distinct from each other and Oliver Cowdery, Joseph Smith, Jr., and Solomon Spaulding.

    These efforts were critiqued in Ernest H. Taves, Trouble Enough: Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon (Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books, 1984), 22560. John Hilton characterized Taves' review as "fundamentally flawed," and noted that his effort "therefore did nothing to add to or detract from their work."


    Wayne A. Larsen, Alvin C. Rencher, and Tim Layton, "Who Wrote the Book of Mormon? An Analysis of Wordprints," Brigham Young University Studies 20 no. 3 (Spring 1980), 22551.
    John L. Hilton, "On Verifying Wordprint Studies: Book of Mormon Authorship," in Book of Mormon Authorship Revisited: The Evidence for Ancient Origins, edited by Noel B. Reynolds, (Provo, Utah : Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, 1997), Chapter 9.
    No need to read the link, since its pretty obvious that would be waste of my time... maybe you should do a little more research into analysis of style... ya think?



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    • #3
      Originally posted by Ralf View Post

      Clearly CA does not want to deal with Word Print, statistical analysis of style, which would make it impossible for JS, Sidney Rigdon or others to have been involved as authors.



      No need to read the link, since its pretty obvious that would be waste of my time... maybe you should do a little more research into analysis of style... ya think?


      I'm not going to respond to someone who will not address the facts in the link. Waste of MY TIME, and my time is very expensive.
      Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

        I'm not going to respond to someone who will not address the facts in the link. Waste of MY TIME, and my time is very expensive.
        Great, then ignore the facts and deal with Sidney... it seems that only one sided agendas are accepted here... I have a open mind, but I don’t read garbage... its actually really a waste of my valuable time... reading the Book of Mormon shed more light and knowledge then some quack book or research... hmmm

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ralf View Post

          Great, then ignore the facts and deal with Sidney... it seems that only one sided agendas are accepted here... I have a open mind, but I don’t read garbage... its actually really a waste of my valuable time... reading the Book of Mormon shed more light and knowledge then some quack book or research... hmmm
          I do ignore them Ralf! Now let's allow somebody to respond who actually researches facts, and isn't afraid to do so. (calling research "garbage" indicates where you are coming from, Ralf. Very sad.)
          Last edited by Catherine Aurelia; 09-12-18, 09:48 AM.
          Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

            I do ignore them Ralf! Now let's allow somebody to respond who actually researches facts, and isn't afraid to do so.
            Im not stopping them and in fact looking forward to some of the responses... chuckle.. ... saves me time and money ...

            Comment


            • #7
              Now folks, I will give the Campbellites one thing, they don't LIE for the Lord. For the most part, they were Christians who believed the ordinances (sacraments) were effectual and not simply symbolic, and this view is part of the Christian tradition in many churches. However, their claim that their only "creed" was the Bible, meant that there were thousands, literally, of mini-popes who determined truth. Theological truth cannot be determined outside of traditon and the entire collective church in Council. When parties segregate themselve from the rest of the Christian community, one can come up with some seriously loony beliefs (we see this in Mormonism). So, how do the Mormons respond to this statement by a Campbellite:

              Thomas Clapp, a deacon in the church where Rigdon preached, confirmed Bentley's statement:
              Elder Adamson Bentley told me that as he was one day riding with Sidney Rigdon and conversing upon the Bible, Mr. Rigdon told him that another book of equal authority with the bible, as well authenticated and as ancient, which would give an account of the history of the Indian tribes on this continent, with many other things of great importance to the world, would soon be published. This was before Mormonism was ever heard of in Ohio, and when it appeared, the avidity with which Rigdon received it convinced him that if Rigdon was not the author of it he was at least acquainted with the whole matter some time before it was published to the world. (See: Link is here.)

              So, what do the all-holy Mormons do with this? Attack the character of Clapp. They haven't changed much have they? (see online version of "HIstory of the Saints by Mayhew).
              Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

              Comment


              • #8
                Ralf said "Great, then ignore the facts...."

                Anti replied "I do ignore them Ralf! ...."


                So if someday, someone accuses antis of never telling the truth, here is evidence that the accusation would be incorrect...IMO. ..
                ...whenever a person's religious conversation dwells... on the faults of other people's religions, he is in a bad condition-C.S. Lewis

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NRA-Jeff View Post
                  Ralf said "Great, then ignore the facts...."

                  Anti replied "I do ignore them Ralf! ...."


                  So if someday, someone accuses antis of never telling the truth, here is evidence that the accusation would be incorrect...IMO. ..
                  You're absolutely correct... that was the conversation... hmmm

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So, do any Mormons want to put on actual thinking caps here and tell us why Sidney Rigdon knew the Book of Mormon was to be published way before it was? Gosh, i suggest it was because he was involved in writing that little piece of fiction. I will not entertain responses from those who neither care what the facts are or or even examined the evidence. Grown men who are unable to give cogent responses to adult reasoning are the types of men I avoid. I like someone who actually thinks, whether or not I agree with him.
                    Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Why did Pastors Williams and Wesley know about the deplorable state that apostasy had caused Christendom to fall to, a century or two before Jesus told Joseph Smith about it?
                      ...whenever a person's religious conversation dwells... on the faults of other people's religions, he is in a bad condition-C.S. Lewis

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
                        So, do any Mormons want to put on actual thinking caps here and tell us why Sidney Rigdon knew the Book of Mormon was to be published way before it was? Gosh, i suggest it was because he was involved in writing that little piece of fiction. I will not entertain responses from those who neither care what the facts are or or even examined the evidence. Grown men who are unable to give cogent responses to adult reasoning are the types of men I avoid. I like someone who actually thinks, whether or not I agree with him.
                        Chuckle, chuckle!
                        In 1863, John W. Rigdon, the son of Sydney Rigdon visited Utah and spent the winter among the Mormons. He was not favorably impressed with LDS religious life, and also came to the conclusion that the Book of Mormon itself was a fraud. He determined that if he was able to return home while his father was still alive (Sydney being 70-years-of-age by this time) then he would ask him what he knew of the origin of the Book of Mormon, "although," he adds, "he had never told but one story about it, and that was that Parley P. Pratt and Oliver Cowdery presented him with a bound volume of that book in the year 1830, while he [Sidney Rigdon] was preaching Campbellism at Mentor, Ohio."

                        John wrote "I concluded I would make an investigation for my own satisfaction and find out if I could if he had all these years been deceiving his family and the world, by telling that which was not true, and I was in earnest about it. If Sidney Rigdon, my father, had thrown his life away by telling a falsehood and bringing sorrow and disgrace upon his family, I wanted to know it and was determined to find out the facts, no matter what the consequences might be.

                        "I reached home in the fall of 1865, found my father in good health and (he) was very much pleased to see me. As he had not heard anything from me for some time, he was afraid that I had been killed by the Indians. Shortly after I had arrived home, I went to my father's room; he was there and alone, and now was the time for me to commence my inquiries in regard to the origin of the Book of Mormon, and as to the truth of the Mormon religion. I told him what I had seen at Salt Lake City, and I said to him that what I had seen at Salt Lake had not impressed me very favorably toward the Mormon Church, and as to the origin of the Book of Mormon I had some doubts.

                        "'You have been charged with writing that book and giving it to Joseph Smith to introduce to the world. You have always told me one story; that you never saw this book until it was presented to you by Parley P. Pratt and Oliver Cowdery; and all you ever knew of the origin of that book was what they told you and what Joseph Smith and the witnesses who claimed to have seen the plates had told you. Is this true? If so, all right; if it is not, you owe it to me and to your family to tell it. You are an old man and will soon pass away, and I wish to know if Joseph Smith, in your intimacy with him for fourteen years, has not said something to you that led you to believe he obtained that book in some other way than what he had told you. Give me all you know about it, that I may know the truth.'

                        "My father, after I had finished saying what I have repeated above, looked at me a moment, raised his hand above his head and slowly said, with tears glistening in his eyes: 'My son, I can swear before high heaven that what I have told you about the origin of that book is true. Your mother and sister, (Mrs. Athalia Robinson), were present when that book was handed to me in Mentor, Ohio, and all I ever knew about the origin of that book was what Parley P. Pratt, Oliver Cowdery, Joseph Smith and the witnesses who claimed they saw the plates have told me, and in all of my intimacy with Joseph Smith he never told me but the one story, and that was that he found it engraved upon gold plates in a hill near Palmyra, New York, and that an angel had appeared to him and directed him where to find it; and I have never, to you or any one else, told but the one story, and that I now repeat to you.'

                        "I believed him, and now believe he told me the truth. He also said to me after that that Mormonism was true; that Joseph Smith was a Prophet, and this world would find it out some day.

                        "After my father's death, my mother, who survived him several years, was in the enjoyment of good health up to the time of her last sickness, she being eighty-six years old. A short time before her death I had a conversation with her about the origin of the Book of Mormon, and wanted to know what she remembered about its being presented to my father. She said to me in that conversation that what my father had told me about the book being presented to him was true, for she was present at the time and knew that was the first time he ever saw it, and that the stories told about my father writing the Book of Mormon were not true. This she said to me in her old age, and when the shadows of the grave were gathering around her; and I believe her."

                        Source:
                        John W. Rigdon "Life of Sidney Rigdon, by his son, John W. Rigdon"[/COLOR][/B][/I]

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