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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

    I think she meant that "if you cannot lend one a shovel, then buy another." She can correct me if I am incorrect.
    Of course, anybody could figure that out - however, maybe the Mormon should buy two shovels - one to lend, and another to shovel up all the Mormon malarkey that accumulates here.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

    Remember what happened on Shawn McCraney's (sp.?) program? When he was talking by phone to a Mormon priesthood holder? The Mormon, after declaring he was a priest, then set out to "rebuke" Shawn for what he had been saying about the LDS church. Shawn did NOT take that arrogance from him!
    Oh, I remember that, and then Shawn said, "well, what's supposed to happen now? I'm not struck dead."

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  • Bonnie
    replied
    Originally posted by dianaiad View Post

    This response makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
    I think she meant that "if you cannot lend one a shovel, then buy another." She can correct me if I am incorrect.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bonnie
    replied
    Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

    Of course there are some Mormon men here who are quite arrogant, and for the life of me I can't see why. I suppose it's the patriarchal mindset instilled in Mormon men which confers on them this belief in their superiority. Little fish acting like big fish, but in a tiny pond. That's what they remind me of. They couldn't compete on a level playing field with any Christian male apologists, not for a NY minute.
    Remember what happened on Shawn McCraney's (sp.?) program? When he was talking by phone to a Mormon priesthood holder? The Mormon, after declaring he was a priest, then set out to "rebuke" Shawn for what he had been saying about the LDS church. Shawn did NOT take that arrogance from him!

    Leave a comment:


  • Bonnie
    replied
    Originally posted by JustaLurker View Post
    To reiterate the charges:
    1. Weíre arrogant because we claim to have the only true Church.

    It isnít universal but most people think their theology is the correct one and that all the others are less correct. Yíall certainly donít shy away from telling us that your beliefs are the Truth, that Mormonism is wrong, and if we donít drop ours and adopt yours we will end up in hell.

    2. We are arrogant because we think we will be gods.

    That is a part of our theology but thereís no exclusivity explicit or implied. Being a member of the Church doesnít get you to heaven and not being a member doesnít bar you from it (any and all levels of heaven including the highest). In fact, we go to great lengths and great expense to secure that opportunity for everyone, even people we donít know, even people who hate us, even yíall. It might be arrogant for a man to see himself as headed for exaltation while all his fellows are headed for something less but thereís no arrogance in seeing oneself headed for an exaltation that he believes is readily available to everyone.

    3. We are called arrogant for claiming to have the Priesthood of God that no other organization has.

    Again, that is a tenet of our faith but that Priesthood is open to all men everywhere who are willing to qualify themselves. And having qualified themselves the Priesthood gives them nothing. There is no value in the Priesthood to the one who holds it. The Priesthood is of value only to those around him.

    As an example, I carry around a shovel that Iím never allowed to put to my own use. Anytime I see anyone in need of shoveling, Iím ready. Car stuck in the snow? Iíll shovel that out for you. No, I canít lend you the shovel. I have to do the shoveling myself. Camping and need a latrine dug? I have a shovel. Flood left your basement full of mud? I have a shovel. Now, if my own basement is full of mud I canít use my shovel. Doesnít work. I have to call some other guy with a shovel and have him help me out, have him shovel my basement, dig out my car, dig my latrine.

    I cannot give myself a blessing. I can only use the Priesthood to bless others. I cannot enrich myself through the Priesthood. I cannot exercise control over others by virtue of the Priesthood (I can try but it isnít going to get me anywhere). And since the Priesthood is available to anyone who is willing to qualify himself, I canít even hold myself up as some paragon or vaunt myself as ďan instrument of GodĒ. I may be an instrument of God but so is everyone else.

    Hey, I can baptize. So can the twelve year old across the street. I can anoint and bless the sick so that they can miraculously recover. Thatís nice but it isnít the anointing and blessing that creates the miracle. Itís faith. I can.... I .... I can, by virtue of the Priesthood, serve my fellow man as Christ instructed us to do. Having qualified myself and holding the Priesthood I can serve others more and serve them better. And if that was your goal, then it isnít arrogance.

    I listed 3. If there are lines that you think I should have added to the list please add them. List yours as number 4. Or 5. Or whatever number we get up to.
    But in order to be exalted to the CK, and godhood, one MUST be a baptized member of your church--correct? And THEN one must be married and have that marriage sealed in one of your temples, correct? And in order even to get INTO one of those temples, one MUST be "worthy"--like tithing yearly to your church, observing the WoW, going through the endowmemt....right? In order for the men to become deities, like heavenly father, and create worlds, and have spirit babies by their exalted priestess wives--right?

    So, how can you say that NOT being a member does NOT bar a non-member from even the highest level of heaven? Because of the proxy thing?

    And you are right that your church has spared no expense to make this possible--it has built dozens of very expensive and lavishly furnishdc"temples" in which to perform Mormon Rituals. Temp,es furnished with crystal chandeliers and plush carpeting and expensive furniture....can you please tell me WHY such furnishings are necessary in a building, in order for someone to be "exalted" after death?

    As for the OP I do not believe that Mormons, per se, are arrogant. But their religion is, since it declares itself the only true church on earth. And its beliefs about its priesthoods and becoming deities could certainly breed pride.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by dianaiad View Post

    This response makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
    Not to a Mormon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Magdalena View Post

    This past week, Ive been surrounded by arrogant mormon men trying to assert their dominance and superiority. And I can tell you they do not like assertive women who oppose them. One of them told me that was not an "attractive" quality in a woman. It reminded me of mormons in this forum who resort to personal insults when contradicted.
    Amen! "Personal insults" is a Mormon male specialty on CARM. There are so many of them that it's hard to know which to alert on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Magdalena
    replied
    Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

    Of course there are some Mormon men here who are quite arrogant, and for the life of me I can't see why. I suppose it's the patriarchal mindset instilled in Mormon men which confers on them this belief in their superiority. Little fish acting like big fish, but in a tiny pond. That's what they remind me of. They couldn't compete on a level playing field with any Christian male apologists, not for a NY minute.
    This past week, Ive been surrounded by arrogant mormon men trying to assert their dominance and superiority. And I can tell you they do not like assertive women who oppose them. One of them told me that was not an "attractive" quality in a woman. It reminded me of mormons in this forum who resort to personal insults when contradicted.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

    Just following in the footsteps of the false prophet Joe Smith who said no man had done such a great and wonderful job as he, neither Jesus nor Paul could hold a church together as did Smith, which was by the way, a total lie.

    If you can't lend one shovel, by another.
    This response makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by JustaLurker View Post
    To reiterate the charges:
    1. Weíre arrogant because we claim to have the only true Church.

    It isnít universal but most people think their theology is the correct one and that all the others are less correct. Yíall certainly donít shy away from telling us that your beliefs are the Truth, that Mormonism is wrong, and if we donít drop ours and adopt yours we will end up in hell.

    2. We are arrogant because we think we will be gods.

    That is a part of our theology but thereís no exclusivity explicit or implied. Being a member of the Church doesnít get you to heaven and not being a member doesnít bar you from it (any and all levels of heaven including the highest). In fact, we go to great lengths and great expense to secure that opportunity for everyone, even people we donít know, even people who hate us, even yíall. It might be arrogant for a man to see himself as headed for exaltation while all his fellows are headed for something less but thereís no arrogance in seeing oneself headed for an exaltation that he believes is readily available to everyone.

    3. We are called arrogant for claiming to have the Priesthood of God that no other organization has.

    Again, that is a tenet of our faith but that Priesthood is open to all men everywhere who are willing to qualify themselves. And having qualified themselves the Priesthood gives them nothing. There is no value in the Priesthood to the one who holds it. The Priesthood is of value only to those around him.

    As an example, I carry around a shovel that Iím never allowed to put to my own use. Anytime I see anyone in need of shoveling, Iím ready. Car stuck in the snow? Iíll shovel that out for you. No, I canít lend you the shovel. I have to do the shoveling myself. Camping and need a latrine dug? I have a shovel. Flood left your basement full of mud? I have a shovel. Now, if my own basement is full of mud I canít use my shovel. Doesnít work. I have to call some other guy with a shovel and have him help me out, have him shovel my basement, dig out my car, dig my latrine.

    I cannot give myself a blessing. I can only use the Priesthood to bless others. I cannot enrich myself through the Priesthood. I cannot exercise control over others by virtue of the Priesthood (I can try but it isnít going to get me anywhere). And since the Priesthood is available to anyone who is willing to qualify himself, I canít even hold myself up as some paragon or vaunt myself as ďan instrument of GodĒ. I may be an instrument of God but so is everyone else.

    Hey, I can baptize. So can the twelve year old across the street. I can anoint and bless the sick so that they can miraculously recover. Thatís nice but it isnít the anointing and blessing that creates the miracle. Itís faith. I can.... I .... I can, by virtue of the Priesthood, serve my fellow man as Christ instructed us to do. Having qualified myself and holding the Priesthood I can serve others more and serve them better. And if that was your goal, then it isnít arrogance.

    I listed 3. If there are lines that you think I should have added to the list please add them. List yours as number 4. Or 5. Or whatever number we get up to.
    Of course there are some Mormon men here who are quite arrogant, and for the life of me I can't see why. I suppose it's the patriarchal mindset instilled in Mormon men which confers on them this belief in their superiority. Little fish acting like big fish, but in a tiny pond. That's what they remind me of. They couldn't compete on a level playing field with any Christian male apologists, not for a NY minute.

    Leave a comment:


  • Theo1689
    replied
    Originally posted by JustaLurker View Post
    To reiterate the charges:
    1. We’re arrogant because we claim to have the only true Church.

    It isn’t universal but most people think their theology is the correct one and that all the others are less correct. Y’all certainly don’t shy away from telling us that your beliefs are the Truth, that Mormonism is wrong, and if we don’t drop ours and adopt yours we will end up in hell.

    2. We are arrogant because we think we will be gods.

    That is a part of our theology but there’s no exclusivity explicit or implied. Being a member of the Church doesn’t get you to heaven and not being a member doesn’t bar you from it (any and all levels of heaven including the highest). In fact, we go to great lengths and great expense to secure that opportunity for everyone, even people we don’t know, even people who hate us, even y’all. It might be arrogant for a man to see himself as headed for exaltation while all his fellows are headed for something less but there’s no arrogance in seeing oneself headed for an exaltation that he believes is readily available to everyone.

    3. We are called arrogant for claiming to have the Priesthood of God that no other organization has.

    Again, that is a tenet of our faith but that Priesthood is open to all men everywhere who are willing to qualify themselves. And having qualified themselves the Priesthood gives them nothing. There is no value in the Priesthood to the one who holds it. The Priesthood is of value only to those around him.

    As an example, I carry around a shovel that I’m never allowed to put to my own use. Anytime I see anyone in need of shoveling, I’m ready. Car stuck in the snow? I’ll shovel that out for you. No, I can’t lend you the shovel. I have to do the shoveling myself. Camping and need a latrine dug? I have a shovel. Flood left your basement full of mud? I have a shovel. Now, if my own basement is full of mud I can’t use my shovel. Doesn’t work. I have to call some other guy with a shovel and have him help me out, have him shovel my basement, dig out my car, dig my latrine.

    I cannot give myself a blessing. I can only use the Priesthood to bless others. I cannot enrich myself through the Priesthood. I cannot exercise control over others by virtue of the Priesthood (I can try but it isn’t going to get me anywhere). And since the Priesthood is available to anyone who is willing to qualify himself, I can’t even hold myself up as some paragon or vaunt myself as “an instrument of God”. I may be an instrument of God but so is everyone else.

    Hey, I can baptize. So can the twelve year old across the street. I can anoint and bless the sick so that they can miraculously recover. That’s nice but it isn’t the anointing and blessing that creates the miracle. It’s faith. I can.... I .... I can, by virtue of the Priesthood, serve my fellow man as Christ instructed us to do. Having qualified myself and holding the Priesthood I can serve others more and serve them better. And if that was your goal, then it isn’t arrogance.

    I listed 3. If there are lines that you think I should have added to the list please add them. List yours as number 4. Or 5. Or whatever number we get up to.
    Those are the exact same reasons that MORMONS shouldn't call Calvinists "arrogant" for believing they are "elect".

    So I look forward to you rebuking your "brethren" the next time(s) that happens.


    Btw, I don't recall anyone calling Mormons "arrogant" for those reasons, so forgive me for thinking this is simply yet another attempt to play the "victim" card...

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by JustaLurker View Post
    To reiterate the charges:
    1. We’re arrogant because we claim to have the only true Church.

    It isn’t universal but most people think their theology is the correct one and that all the others are less correct. Y’all certainly don’t shy away from telling us that your beliefs are the Truth, that Mormonism is wrong, and if we don’t drop ours and adopt yours we will end up in hell.

    2. We are arrogant because we think we will be gods.

    That is a part of our theology but there’s no exclusivity explicit or implied. Being a member of the Church doesn’t get you to heaven and not being a member doesn’t bar you from it (any and all levels of heaven including the highest). In fact, we go to great lengths and great expense to secure that opportunity for everyone, even people we don’t know, even people who hate us, even y’all. It might be arrogant for a man to see himself as headed for exaltation while all his fellows are headed for something less but there’s no arrogance in seeing oneself headed for an exaltation that he believes is readily available to everyone.

    3. We are called arrogant for claiming to have the Priesthood of God that no other organization has.

    Again, that is a tenet of our faith but that Priesthood is open to all men everywhere who are willing to qualify themselves. And having qualified themselves the Priesthood gives them nothing. There is no value in the Priesthood to the one who holds it. The Priesthood is of value only to those around him.

    As an example, I carry around a shovel that I’m never allowed to put to my own use. Anytime I see anyone in need of shoveling, I’m ready. Car stuck in the snow? I’ll shovel that out for you. No, I can’t lend you the shovel. I have to do the shoveling myself. Camping and need a latrine dug? I have a shovel. Flood left your basement full of mud? I have a shovel. Now, if my own basement is full of mud I can’t use my shovel. Doesn’t work. I have to call some other guy with a shovel and have him help me out, have him shovel my basement, dig out my car, dig my latrine.

    I cannot give myself a blessing. I can only use the Priesthood to bless others. I cannot enrich myself through the Priesthood. I cannot exercise control over others by virtue of the Priesthood (I can try but it isn’t going to get me anywhere). And since the Priesthood is available to anyone who is willing to qualify himself, I can’t even hold myself up as some paragon or vaunt myself as “an instrument of God”. I may be an instrument of God but so is everyone else.

    Hey, I can baptize. So can the twelve year old across the street. I can anoint and bless the sick so that they can miraculously recover. That’s nice but it isn’t the anointing and blessing that creates the miracle. It’s faith. I can.... I .... I can, by virtue of the Priesthood, serve my fellow man as Christ instructed us to do. Having qualified myself and holding the Priesthood I can serve others more and serve them better. And if that was your goal, then it isn’t arrogance.

    I listed 3. If there are lines that you think I should have added to the list please add them. List yours as number 4. Or 5. Or whatever number we get up to.
    Just following in the footsteps of the false prophet Joe Smith who said no man had done such a great and wonderful job as he, neither Jesus nor Paul could hold a church together as did Smith, which was by the way, a total lie.

    If you can't lend one shovel, by another.

    Leave a comment:

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