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Midichlorians

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  • Midichlorians

    I brought this up before. It is always good to keep key ideas and issues near.

    To the LDS of this forum,

    Based upon LDS theology/anthropology -

    Since God was once a man without power, and matter has always existed, how does one get his power? If man has always had the power and it just needed to develop it, why don’t we see development in the present life?

    It seems that man must be dependent upon the matter of this universe for his power, sort of like the users of the force and the Midichorians in Star Wars. There must be some impersonal power that these gods tap into to be able to shape planets and galaxies and animal life and plant life and bacteria.

    There must also be some knowledge center in order for these gods to tap into to create laws and principles for their planets, life, etc etc…
    How else does a man made of flesh and bone gain all of this power and knowledge?
    Be light. Share The Gospel. Grow the Kingdom...

  • #2
    Originally posted by Yodas_Prodigy View Post
    Since God was once a man without power, and matter has always existed, how does one get his power? If man has always had the power and it just needed to develop it, why don’t we see development in the present life?

    It seems that man must be dependent upon the matter of this universe for his power, sort of like the users of the force and the Midichorians in Star Wars. There must be some impersonal power that these gods tap into to be able to shape planets and galaxies and animal life and plant life and bacteria.

    There must also be some knowledge center in order for these gods to tap into to create laws and principles for their planets, life, etc etc…
    This is not based upon LDS theology.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Craig View Post
      This is not based upon LDS theology.
      Which part? LDS theology teaches men become gods, right? LDS theology teaches that the universe has always existed, right?
      Be light. Share The Gospel. Grow the Kingdom...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Craig View Post
        This is not based upon LDS theology.
        Actually, it is. Joseph Smith taught that God the Father was once a human who worked his way up a ladder to godhood, the same as others before him.
        ~ There is life after mormonism, and it's good! Just stay close to Christ.
        ~ You can't follow Christ and false prophets at the same time.
        ~ "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

        Comment


        • #5
          I always thought this part of LDS theology reminded me of the Green Lantern stories, and where the Green Lanterns got their power from...and who decided who got the power.
          "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
          "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
          "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
          "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
          "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Yodas_Prodigy View Post
            Which part?
            The part that I quoted.

            LDS theology teaches men become gods, right?
            It teaches that they can.

            LDS theology teaches that the universe has always existed, right?
            Wrong.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Yodas_Prodigy View Post

              Which part? LDS theology teaches men become gods, right? LDS theology teaches that the universe has always existed, right?
              Absolutely it does not teach that the universe has always existed. God created the universe.

              Where in the name of all that is anti-Mormon did you get THAT one?

              'cause you got it from antis. You definitely didn't get it from US;.
              Providing a proper reference/citation for a quote says nothing. Refusing to provide a proper reference/citation for a quote says everything: it’s a credibility killer. Nothing says “I'm making this up” like refusing to provide citations.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dianaiad;n56***48

                Absolutely it does not teach that the universe has always existed. God created the universe.

                Where in the name of all that is anti-Mormon did you get THAT one?

                'cause you got it from antis. You definitely didn't get it from US;.
                Really? Because your church's teaching seem to vary about this:

                http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/...herwasaman.htm

                Pearl of Great Price, Moses 1:33

                And worlds without number have I created: and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

                Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 4:1-5:20

                1 And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth.
                Note the confusion above. Did the GODS CREATE the heavens and the earth--the universe? OR did they "organize" and "form" it? OR did the Mormon God CREATE worlds without end? Which is it?

                2 . . . and the Spirit of the Gods was brooding upon the face of the waters.

                Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, 2007.

                "God Himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret." (p. 40)

                "Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, . . ." (p. 221) (from the infamous King Follett sermon)
                So, if your God was FIRST a man on "an earth" who had to learn how to BECOME a God, as all other Gods before him did, and pass through the same trials that we must on the way to "godhood"--how then could your God have created the universe, if it already existed, with stars and planets around them? That your Elohim came from BEFORE he achieved godhood? How could he have created the universe if OTHER Gods came before him? Wouldn't that mean the universe existed before your Elohim became a God?

                Also, I thought your church teaches that matter always existed...or is this incorrect?
                Last edited by Bonnie; 10-09-18, 07:41 PM.
                "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Craig View Post
                  The part that I quoted.


                  It teaches that they can.


                  Wrong.
                  I see you are a newer guy... You should check with your brethren on how they have answered questions in the past...


                  As man is, God once was
                  As God is, man shall become

                  Fifth LDS President Lorenzo Snow


                  LDS Apostle Bruce McConkie, “Thus those who gain eternal life receive exaltation. . . They are gods.” (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 237).
                  Be light. Share The Gospel. Grow the Kingdom...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Yodas_Prodigy View Post
                    I see you are a newer guy...
                    I see that I joined the forum 4 1/2 years before you did.

                    You should check with your brethren on how they have answered questions in the past...
                    Why?

                    As man is, God once was
                    As God is, man shall become

                    Fifth LDS President Lorenzo Snow
                    You got the couplet wrong.

                    LDS Apostle Bruce McConkie, “Thus those who gain eternal life receive exaltation. . . They are gods.” (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 237).
                    And?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Craig View Post
                      I see that I joined the forum 4 1/2 years before you did.
                      I've been here 15 years... Whoah... Yep 15 years..
                      Be light. Share The Gospel. Grow the Kingdom...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dianaiad;n56***48

                        Absolutely it does not teach that the universe has always existed. God created the universe.

                        Where in the name of all that is anti-Mormon did you get THAT one?

                        'cause you got it from antis. You definitely didn't get it from US;.
                        Hmmmm.... You guys have argued against Ex Nihilo for a long time...NRAJeff (??) argued against Ex Nihilo...
                        Last edited by Yodas_Prodigy; 10-10-18, 01:03 PM.
                        Be light. Share The Gospel. Grow the Kingdom...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Magdalena View Post

                          Actually, it is. Joseph Smith taught that God the Father was once a human who worked his way up a ladder to godhood, the same as others before him.
                          Makes you wonder what Moroni did wrong that he wasn't a god
                          I'd rather attend church with messed up people seeking after God, than with religious people who think they're His enforcers.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Yodas_Prodigy View Post

                            I've been here 15 years... Whoah... Yep 15 years..
                            I've been here since January 2000....Nearly 19 years! But not the whole time on this board. I first started on the JW board, then moved to Catholic board, then Messianic Judaism board, then to here--with visits to the Lutheran board from time to time.
                            "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                            "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                            "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                            "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                            "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Craig View Post
                              I see that I joined the forum 4 1/2 years before you did.


                              Why?


                              You got the couplet wrong.


                              And?
                              I have seen two versions of the couplet--the one here ,and the one where it says "As man is NOW, God once was. As God is NOW, man may become." Doesn't change the meaning, though.
                              But IF the Mormon God was FIRST a created man, who had to learn go through all that we go through on this world, in order to reach exaltation to godhood after death, then does that mean that their God was also a sinner, as we are? After all, the couplet says "As man is NOW, God once was..." and man is NOW sinful....so, was their God sinful while a human being on "an earth" before he worked his way up to godhood?

                              But if their God was first a created man, then that means he wasn't immortal and always existed. Unless Mormons are saying that God came from pre-existing, eternal matter. OR pre-existing, eternal "intelligences."
                              "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                              "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                              "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                              "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                              "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                              Comment

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