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Some Interesting Comments About "Restoration"

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  • Some Interesting Comments About "Restoration"

    So exactly when did the Christian Church fail, and provide proof:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG4fC1eWbqg
    Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

  • #2
    Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
    So exactly when did the Christian Church fail, and provide proof:
    The people started failing almost immediately. We can see this in almost every letter Paul wrote. He spent the bulk of his time correcting error that was creeping in. In Corinthians he made that reference to baptism for the dead because he was addressing a congregation that had ceased to believe in the resurection. “Wherefore are they baptized for the dead if the dead rise not at all?”

    But Individual apostasy or even apostasy of entire congregations is not a universal apostasy. The universal apostasy that you are asking about is defined (by us since it’s our doctrine) as the loss of authorized priesthood leadership. The apostles were killed one by one. When they were gone there was no more priesthood and no more authorized leadership. I might have to substantiate that statement if I were talking to a Catholic but y’all are various flavors of Protestant. Y’all have already accepted that there is no more priesthood and no more authorized leadership. You simply decided that since they no longer existed they must have been unnecessary.

    By the way, thank you for selecting a video of a length that fit within my limited attention span.

    Comment


    • #3
      The evidence is not just provided by Paul's writings. The last apostle that we have any writings from, John - to the 7 churches in Asia, indicates that there was only one that had not fallen into serious error and that one seems to be relevant only to that individual and not the church as a whole. One wonders, where there more than 7 churches, was John only writing to the fallen churches?

      But the proof of an apostasy is the lack of apostles in the church. Sure, some spin-offs of our church have apostles, but that's irrelevant to the obvious lack of apostles throughout the history of Christianity.
      "...for now is our salvation nearer to us than when we believed." Romans 13:11 -- What else must be done to move past belief? Faith is belief in action. It is works unto salvation.

      Comment


      • #4
        Mormons are nothing but Johnny Come Latelies who have nothing to do with Christianity but are a continuation of Gnosticism with Spiritism thrown in for good measure - trying to pass off this theological rat poison as "Restored" Christianity, when not one thing was ever lost from Jesus' True Church. On the other hand, Mormonism is currently in the process of dismantling itself from embarassing doctrines and hiding its history.
        Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BrotherofJared View Post
          The evidence is not just provided by Paul's writings. The last apostle that we have any writings from, John - to the 7 churches in Asia, indicates that there was only one that had not fallen into serious error and that one seems to be relevant only to that individual and not the church as a whole. One wonders, where there more than 7 churches, was John only writing to the fallen churches?

          But the proof of an apostasy is the lack of apostles in the church. Sure, some spin-offs of our church have apostles, but that's irrelevant to the obvious lack of apostles throughout the history of Christianity.
          If you can sit through a highly boring Mormon sacrament meeting, you can watch a video of any length.
          Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
            Mormons are nothing but Johnny Come Latelies who have nothing to do with Christianity but are a continuation of Gnosticism with Spiritism thrown in for good measure - trying to pass off this theological rat poison as "Restored" Christianity, when not one thing was ever lost from Jesus' True Church. On the other hand, Mormonism is currently in the process of dismantling itself from embarassing doctrines and hiding its history.
            Well, you certainly have your opinion.

            Cet animal est très méchant,
            Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

            Translation: "This animal is very bad; when you attack it, it defends itself."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

              If you can sit through a highly boring Mormon sacrament meeting, you can watch a video of any length.
              You've actually attended an LDS Sacrament meeting?

              Well, hallelujah.

              I will note this; one gets out of any meeting what one brings into it.
              Cet animal est très méchant,
              Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

              Translation: "This animal is very bad; when you attack it, it defends itself."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

                If you can sit through a highly boring Mormon sacrament meeting, you can watch a video of any length.
                You made your reply to the wrong post by the wrong poster.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
                  So exactly when did the Christian Church fail, and provide proof:

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG4fC1eWbqg
                  When? The year 64 CE - This is the year of Peter's death. He held the keys at that time, and the Apostleship never recovered or reconvened, to call enough new apostles to replace the martyr's.

                  There were no apostles from approximately that time forward till after the restoration of The Church

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BrotherofJared View Post
                    But the proof of an apostasy is the lack of apostles in the church. Sure, some spin-offs of our church have apostles, but that's irrelevant to the obvious lack of apostles throughout the history of Christianity.
                    The apostles appointed by Christ Himself were to serve as witness of Him and His ministry as the church began to expand. Their office wasn't designed to serve as part of an ecclesiastical hierarchy run like a board of directors in a business. When they died, their office died with them.

                    http://web.archive.org/web/200706180...les_Needed.htm
                    Last edited by Grogan; 11-06-18, 11:33 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Grogan View Post

                      The apostles appointed by Christ Himself were to serve as witness of Him and His ministry as the church began to expand. Their office wasn't designed to serve as part of an ecclesiastical hierarchy run like a board of directors in a business. When they died, their office died with them.

                      http://web.archive.org/web/200706180...les_Needed.htm
                      then why was Judas replaced with Matthias?
                      Why was Paul made an apostle? Apollos?

                      If their office died with them, and wasn't expected to continue as an office, why was it possible to replace Judas, or make Paul an apostle?
                      Cet animal est très méchant,
                      Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

                      Translation: "This animal is very bad; when you attack it, it defends itself."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Grogan View Post

                        The apostles appointed by Christ Himself were to serve as witness of Him and His ministry as the church began to expand. Their office wasn't designed to serve as part of an ecclesiastical hierarchy run like a board of directors in a business. When they died, their office died with them.

                        http://web.archive.org/web/200706180...les_Needed.htm
                        Unlike many of the fraudulent claims of Mormonism; what you have posted is historically and factually true, which can be proven by an appeal to early Christian writings. No one was referred to as being an official 'apostle' of Christ after John died in Ephesus. Mormons have claimed that John never died, which shows their lack of understanding with regards to ecclesiastical history. Perhaps that is why Mormonism has always presented their fraudulent version of history in order to fool all their bobble-headed chapel Mormons. Goebbels believed that if one told a big enough lie long enough that many would begin to believe that lie. Mormonism represents that type of big, fat lie!
                        "You have just constructed a straw man so large you could burn it in the desert and hold an annoying festival around it"


                        "One's personal world view can be so powerful that it blinds them to any evidence that contradicts it"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dianaiad View Post
                          If their office died with them, and wasn't expected to continue as an office, why was it possible to replace Judas, or make Paul an apostle?
                          We know from scripture that Jesus chose the original 12 and Paul to be His apostles (messengers/witnesses), Mathias was chosen by lots. There has been some disagreement as to the legitimacy of Mathias being an apostle in the same sense as the remaining 11 Jesus chose. There is nothing in Acts 1:22-23 that would suggest the 11 were directed by God to replace Mathias. Some believe Paul was God's choice for Judas' replacement or that he was chosen by Christ Himself to be a special witness to the Gentiles.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Grogan View Post
                            We know from scripture that Jesus chose the original 12 and Paul to be His apostles (messengers/witnesses), Mathias was chosen by lots. There has been some disagreement as to the legitimacy of Mathias being an apostle in the same sense as the remaining 11 Jesus chose. There is nothing in Acts 1:22-23 that would suggest the 11 were directed by God to replace Mathias. Some believe Paul was God's choice for Judas' replacement or that he was chosen by Christ Himself to be a special witness to the Gentiles.
                            "Some say..."

                            Yes. Some do say. They have to in order to support their contentions here. However, Matthias was chosen by the method used by the children of Israel and approved of by God, since the beginning.

                            ............and you have NO idea how delighted I am by the following: here is a lovely and rather comprehensive discussion of the use of the 'casting of lots' in the Bible.

                            By Matt Slick of CARM.
                            Cet animal est très méchant,
                            Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

                            Translation: "This animal is very bad; when you attack it, it defends itself."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dianaiad View Post
                              "Some say..."

                              Yes. Some do say. They have to in order to support their contentions here.
                              Does that exclude you from doing the same?

                              ............and you have NO idea how delighted I am by the following: here is a lovely and rather comprehensive discussion of the use of the 'casting of lots' in the Bible.

                              By Matt Slick of CARM.
                              I don't always agree with Matt. He can have his own conclusions about this as do I. The Holy Spirit thought it important enough to include it in scripture so I'm not going to rule out that God may have determined the outcome of the lots but even if He had, I don't feel these verses support a divine will for apostolic succession in the church. I think what's problematic for Mormon's who want to use this verse, if the Mormon leadership structure is a "restoration" of the first century church, what happened to the "First Presidency?"
                              Last edited by Grogan; 11-07-18, 02:33 PM.

                              Comment

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