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The Demonic Origin of the BoM and its Familiar Spirit

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  • The Demonic Origin of the BoM and its Familiar Spirit

    The BoM and familiar spirits:

    67 Isaiah saw the coming forth of this record as the voice of one that has a familiar spirit whispering out of the dust:
    67 Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.
    67 Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.
    67 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.
    67 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust. (
    Isaiah 29:1-4.)

    The Mormon view of the above verses from Isaiah is this: the verses prophesy the Book of Mormon, and characterize it as a familiar spirit. What is a familiar spirit?

    According to Google: "

    "a demon supposedly attending and obeying a witch, often said to assume the form of an animal."

    Well, well, well. Haven't I always said Joe Smith was the "witch of Palmyra?"

    Here is an example of how obtuse a Mormon leader was: "“Now, obviously, the only way a dead people could speak ‘out of the ground’ or ‘low out of the dust’ would be by the written word, and this the people did through the book of Mormon. Truly it has a familiar spirit, for it contains the words of the prophets of the God of Israel” (LeGrand Richards, Marvelous Work and a Wonder, 1979 edition, pp. 67-68) "

    LeGrand Richards was a false Mormon "apostle" folks! So much for this cult having any semblance of discernment.
    Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

  • #2
    Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
    Familiar Spirits
    I rather think that 'ol Joe REALLY DID see an Angel (of light) that called itself "Moroni", and that Joe's testimony about the incident on the hill was true. Except that he didn't realize it was satan he was dealing with. "Angels of Light" can be VERY PERSUASIVE.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

      According to Google: "....
      Is this the Google forum?
      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

      We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

        I rather think that 'ol Joe REALLY DID see an Angel (of light) that called itself "Moroni", and that Joe's testimony about the incident on the hill was true. Except that he didn't realize it was satan he was dealing with. "Angels of Light" can be VERY PERSUASIVE.

        In any case, Smith was a real low-life type guy - someone you wouldn't mingle with socially, who made a living ripping gullible people off, even before he wrote the BoM.
        Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post


          In any case, Smith was a real low-life type guy - someone you wouldn't mingle with socially, who made a living ripping gullible people off, even before he wrote the BoM.
          And Joe and Hyrum were murdered for it. some reports say he shot three people before they offed him.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

            And Joe and Hyrum were murdered for it. some reports say he shot three people before they offed him.
            Actually, Joseph was able to get three shots off, after Hyrum was killed. How many of his attackers he wounded is up for grabs (I suspect that 'friendly fire' may well have accounted for one at least). It would have been difficult for him to NOT hit someone. I've been in that building, and stood on the balconey/stair area that held so many of the mob attempting to get into the cell. I'm astounded that the sheer mass of men shooting into that room didn't collapse the stairs.

            Unlike his attackers, however, Joseph didn't end up killing anybody.

            Oh, and just so you know, Joseph didn't shoot at all until after his brother was killed. That left three men in the room to protect.

            Bob, I hope that, as many other critics in here have said, are not trying to say that Joseph, with his five shot 'pepper box' revolver that misfired after three shots, somehow made this event an 'equal' western style shoot out--that because Joseph had with a revolver with five bullets in it, only three of which were fired, made it just dandy for two hundred men, armed to the teeth, to break into the Carthage jail with the full and firm intent of committing murder?

            I hope you aren't doing that.
            Cet animal est très méchant,
            Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

            Translation: "This animal is very bad; when you attack it, it defends itself."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
              The BoM and familiar spirits:

              Isaiah saw the coming forth of this record as the voice of one that has a familiar spirit whispering out of the dust:
              Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.
              Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.
              And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.
              And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust. Isaiah 29:1-4

              The Mormon view of the above verses from Isaiah is this: the verses prophesy the Book of Mormon, and characterize it as a familiar spirit. What is a familiar spirit?

              According to Google: "

              "a demon supposedly attending and obeying a witch, often said to assume the form of an animal."
              Context is important. Do you really think Isaiah was talking about a demon in those verses? Isaiah wasn't and we aren't. The definition you should use is for the adjective form of the word: "well known from long or close association". In context, it is the voice of a dead people, a history, kind of like what's in the Bible.

              Ariel is Jerusalem, a city vexed in its history because of its wayward souls even though they had prophets who lead them out of Egypt through divided waters, fed them and quenched their thirst in the desert, who called fire down from heaven, who moved the sun backward, who spoke the god-breathed word.

              In these latter days, we have this same experience, wayward nations and the word of God given anew as in past times and as we read the word of our ancestors, it seems familiar to us as if we had been here before.

              Well, well, well. Haven't I always said Joe Smith was the "witch of Palmyra?"
              Not that your opinion means anything. It certainly doesn't relate to Isaiah or the obvious condition we find ourselves in now.

              Here is an example of how obtuse a Mormon leader was: "“Now, obviously, the only way a dead people could speak ‘out of the ground’ or ‘low out of the dust’ would be by the written word,
              Nothing obtuse about that. Do you have any other obvious ways a dead people could speak to us?
              and this the people did through the book of Mormon.
              And the Bible.
              Truly it has a familiar spirit
              In more ways than one. Anyone who's read the Bible would see how familiar the Book of Mormon is. They even carry the same message, but also that which I mentioned above.
              for it contains the words of the prophets of the God of Israel” (LeGrand Richards, Marvelous Work and a Wonder, 1979 edition, pp. 67-68) "
              And it does which is the reason it is so familiar to those who are familiar with the Bible.

              LeGrand Richards was a false Mormon "apostle" folks! So much for this cult having any semblance of discernment.
              I don't think the problem of discernment lies with LeGrand Richards.
              "...for now is our salvation nearer to us than when we believed." Romans 13:11 -- What else must be done to move past belief? Faith is belief in action. It is works unto salvation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                I rather think that 'ol Joe REALLY DID see an Angel (of light) that called itself "Moroni", and that Joe's testimony about the incident on the hill was true. Except that he didn't realize it was satan he was dealing with. "Angels of Light" can be VERY PERSUASIVE.
                But it appears that men can be far more persuasive. Hence, the development of the mass confusion in modern Christianity.
                "...for now is our salvation nearer to us than when we believed." Romans 13:11 -- What else must be done to move past belief? Faith is belief in action. It is works unto salvation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post


                  In any case, Smith was a real low-life type guy
                  Well that certainly wasn't very convincing, if only opinions could be the foundation for arguments.
                  - someone you wouldn't mingle with socially, who made a living ripping gullible people off, even before he wrote the BoM.
                  Still not convincing.

                  "...for now is our salvation nearer to us than when we believed." Romans 13:11 -- What else must be done to move past belief? Faith is belief in action. It is works unto salvation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
                    [COLOR=#FF0000]The BoM and familiar spirits:
                    .)

                    The Mormon view of the above verses from Isaiah is this: the verses prophesy the Book of Mormon, and characterize it as a familiar spirit. What is a familiar spirit?

                    .
                    However in the case of Isaiah 29:4 the Hebrew is best read as "thy voice shall be as a ghost out of the ground"; it has nothing to do with spirit mediums.

                    Book of Mormon Answers
                    Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 7/1 (1998): 74.
                    A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards. Proverbs

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dianaiad View Post

                      Actually, Joseph was able to get three shots off, after Hyrum was killed. How many of his attackers he wounded is up for grabs (I suspect that 'friendly fire' may well have accounted for one at least). It would have been difficult for him to NOT hit someone. I've been in that building, and stood on the balconey/stair area that held so many of the mob attempting to get into the cell. I'm astounded that the sheer mass of men shooting into that room didn't collapse the stairs.

                      Unlike his attackers, however, Joseph didn't end up killing anybody.

                      Oh, and just so you know, Joseph didn't shoot at all until after his brother was killed. That left three men in the room to protect.

                      Bob, I hope that, as many other critics in here have said, are not trying to say that Joseph, with his five shot 'pepper box' revolver that misfired after three shots, somehow made this event an 'equal' western style shoot out--that because Joseph had with a revolver with five bullets in it, only three of which were fired, made it just dandy for two hundred men, armed to the teeth, to break into the Carthage jail with the full and firm intent of committing murder?

                      I hope you aren't doing that.
                      Nope. Premeditated murder is still MURDER whether the victim(s) are pretty 6 year old girls on their way to school, or false prophets in a jail. Nobody in their right mind would defend the actions of the demonic MOB in Carthage. But unfortunately, the fact is that Dead Martyrs, are in some cases more "persuasive", and invoke more sympathy, than live false prophets. The devil always plays his hand for the most productive effect.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                        Nope. Premeditated murder is still MURDER whether the victim(s) are pretty 6 year old girls on their way to school, or false prophets in a jail. Nobody in their right mind would defend the actions of the demonic MOB in Carthage. But unfortunately, the fact is that Dead Martyrs, are in some cases more "persuasive", and invoke more sympathy, than live false prophets. The devil always plays his hand for the most productive effect.
                        Who was the Devil actually being impactful too? The Mob or JS...hmmm ... what lesson are we to read into this... the evil mob or the death of JS ... who gained from all this evil?
                        A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards. Proverbs

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ralf View Post

                          Who was the Devil actually being impactful too? The Mob or JS...hmmm ... what lesson are we to read into this... the evil mob or the death of JS ... who gained from all this evil?
                          The "LDS" organization, of course. You can ALWAYS build more on a dead martyr, than on a live false prophet. Surprised you wouldn't already KNOW that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                            The "LDS" organization, of course. You can ALWAYS build more on a dead martyr, than on a live false prophet. Surprised you wouldn't already KNOW that.
                            Isn't that how some atheists explain the impressive explosive growth of Christianity that occurred after Jesus died?
                            ...whenever a person's religious conversation dwells... on the faults of other people's religions, he is in a bad condition-C.S. Lewis

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                              I rather think that 'ol Joe REALLY DID see an Angel (of light) that called itself "Moroni", and that Joe's testimony about the incident on the hill was true. Except that he didn't realize it was satan he was dealing with. "Angels of Light" can be VERY PERSUASIVE.
                              Are you referring to the angel of light that Saul of Tarsus found so persuasive?
                              ...whenever a person's religious conversation dwells... on the faults of other people's religions, he is in a bad condition-C.S. Lewis

                              Comment

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