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Mormon: My postulation is that Paul testified satan is a god

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  • Mormon: My postulation is that Paul testified satan is a god

    On another apologetic forum this was posted: "My postulation is Paul testified satan is a god--the god of this world; If that is true--that certainly destroys any notion Paul was monotheistic-"

    Do Mormons here agree with that statement? Is Satan a real god? Was Paul NOT a monotheist?

    I'd like the Mormons here to have the intestinal fortitude to be honest.

    If they really believe Satan is a real, powerful and true god, let's get it on the table. Let the world know what type of "religion" Mormonism really is. If they really believe Satan is a "real and powerful god," and real means 'true,' then let's contact SLC and see if the Brethren agree with that statement.

    If the Bible can be twisted to endorse the "postulation" cited, then all Mormons should get down on their knees and worship Satan who is their god. After all, he inhabits their false "temples."

    So, does that quote come from a Satanist? One might think so. For it is Satanists who make their love, Satan, into a true and real and powerful god, is it not? Do Christians? No, that statement was made by a Mormon on another forum.

    What is a "real god? Well I would recommend to our readers the statement made by a Mormon in response to this devilish teaching: " The only way Satan is a God is for those who worship him." Ah, for once an intelligent answer from someone in the cult. So, there is hope, at least for some.

    Did Paul worship Satan? Do Mormons? How could Satan become a "god" even within the diabolical Mormon context? He never took a body.

    Are metaphors gods? Was Paul not using the term "god" as he also used it when he said some have their bellies for gods? Are there a a bunch of celestialized "bellies" living on planets near Kolob procreating little bellies? Or, should Mormons perhaps bone up on what metaphorical language means? Under-educated, perhaps? I have noted a real problem with this when dealing with Mormons. When one can't think beyond "literalness" which is actually an aspect of inellectual immaturity, it's pretty impossible to teach them to understand the figurative. I believe this is found in cultists, especially, where words mean only what the cult says they mean. A literal "wooden" vocabulary is the product of indoctrination for non-thinking cultists. Abstract thinking cannot be cultivated in the garden of intellectual indifference overrun by the weeds of sycophantic devotion to the aberrant fantasies of a pedophile prophet.
    Last edited by Catherine Aurelia; 12-08-18, 10:50 AM.
    Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

  • #2
    So, we can see that NOT one Mormon here can courageously stand up, as did the other Mormon on the forum quoted, and say Satan isn't a true god. This says it all folks.
    Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

    Comment


    • #3
      Need a link to that forum to verify your story. Then we can tell you what we think of it.
      ...whenever a person's religious conversation dwells... on the faults of other people's religions, he is in a bad condition-C.S. Lewis

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by NRA-Jeff View Post
        Need a link to that forum to verify your story. Then we can tell you what we think of it.
        We are not allowed to link to other forums (and YOU know that) , but YOU should be familiar with the site. I need a link to the First Vision, have any? In any case, the narrative I posted is exactly what the MORMON poster said. I don't lie "for the Lord" as is taught in Mormonism. . Why don't you go out on a limb and tell us if you think Paul was a monotheist? Too hard for you to determine, considering he happened to say there was ONLY ONE True God?
        Last edited by Catherine Aurelia; 12-08-18, 04:15 PM.
        Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
          So, we can see that NOT one Mormon here can courageously stand up, as did the other Mormon on the forum quoted, and say Satan isn't a true god. This says it all folks.
          True
          Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by NRA-Jeff View Post
            Need a link to that forum to verify your story. Then we can tell you what we think of it.
            So let me get this straight...

            So you're saying that you are unable to tell us what you think 2 Cor. 4:4 means until you read someone else's opinion about it?

            I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Mormons admit to not understanding Scripture.
            "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------
            "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
            but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
            -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post

              So let me get this straight...

              So you're saying that you are unable to tell us what you think 2 Cor. 4:4 means until you read someone else's opinion about it?

              I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Mormons admit to not understanding Scripture.
              Amen! And even moreso, a Mormon will never contradict another Mormon, because essentially they are nothing but Masons.
              Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

                We are not allowed to link to other forums (and YOU know that) ,
                You ARE allowed (and even required) to provide a reference. You don't need to post an actual link.

                Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
                but YOU should be familiar with the site. I need a link to the First Vision, have any? In any case, the narrative I posted is exactly what the MORMON poster said. I don't lie "for the Lord" as is taught in Mormonism.
                EDIT PER MOD

                Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
                . Why don't you go out on a limb and tell us if you think Paul was a monotheist? Too hard for you to determine, considering he happened to say there was ONLY ONE True God?


                EDIT PER MOD what the difference is between Paul saying that Satan is the 'god of this world," and advocating the worship of that god? (note the lower case 'g', in all instances in which this quote from Paul is referenced, except perhaps your own misrepresentation of it).

                Or are you saying that the Bible is in error and Paul did NOT say that Satan is the god of this world?
                Last edited by 4Him; 12-08-18, 06:33 PM.
                Providing a proper reference/citation for a quote says nothing. Refusing to provide a proper reference/citation for a quote says everything: it’s a credibility killer. Nothing says “I'm making this up” like refusing to provide citations.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dianaiad View Post
                  Do you have a clue what the difference is between Paul saying that Satan is the 'god of this world,"
                  I've read the Bible MANY times, and I've NEVER read were Paul ever identified the "god of this world" as "Satan".

                  and advocating the worship of that god? (note the lower case 'g', in all instances in which this quote from Paul is referenced, except perhaps your own misrepresentation of it).
                  The New Testament was originally written in all upper-case (i.e. "uncial" text), so there was no distinction between "upper case" and "lower case".

                  Just sayin'.

                  Or are you saying that the Bible is in error
                  Nope.
                  Only Mormons do that.

                  and Paul did NOT say that Satan is the god of this world?
                  Paul never said it was "Satan", no.
                  "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
                  but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
                  -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post

                    So let me get this straight...

                    So you're saying that you are unable to tell us what you think 2 Cor. 4:4 means until you read someone else's opinion about it?

                    I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Mormons admit to not understanding Scripture.
                    That obviously isn't what he said the OP had no reference to 2 Cor 4:4 but true to form antiMormons take what Mormons say out of context... context doesn't matter to them.


                    As for 2 Cor 4:4.. the text refers to the 'god of this world'.. Which become a matter of interpretation as to what or who is the 'god of this world'.. Now it's clear from the text , that is a different god than Christ... so who would that be if not satan? Do you suppose there is another god? And this is a matter of translation as well.. as some Bible translations of 2 Cor 4:4 identify Satan as the 'god of this world'
                    2 Corinthians 4:4 New Living Translation (NLT)
                    4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
                    2 Corinthians 4:4 Living Bible (TLB)
                    4 Satan, who is the god of this evil world, has made him blind, unable to see the glorious light of the Gospel that is shining upon him or to understand the amazing message we preach about the glory of Christ, who is God.[a]
                    Now other christian websites also ascribe the verse to be referring to 'Satan'.. got questions org
                    Question: "How is Satan god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4)?"

                    Answer: The phrase “god of this world” (or “god of this age”) indicates that Satan is the major influence on the ideals, opinions, goals, hopes and views of the majority of people. His influence also encompasses the world’s philosophies, education, and commerce. The thoughts, ideas, speculations and false religions of the world are under his control and have sprung from his lies and deceptions.

                    Satan is also called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2. He is the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. These titles and many more signify Satan’s capabilities. To say, for example, that Satan is the "prince of the power of the air" is to signify that in some way he rules over the world and the people in it.
                    The broader question that the critic is asking.. is Satan a real god?

                    First does the critic not believe Satan REAL? Now I may be wrong, but I tend to think so.. I find that the unChristian behavior of antiMormons tend to suggest they have no conscience or concern regarding their behavior as if they are merely atheists in sheeps clothing.

                    As LDS we believe Satan is real.

                    Second.. Is Satan a 'god'? notice lower case spelling..

                    dictionary.com
                    God
                    [god]

                    noun
                    1 the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
                    2 the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute:
                    3 ( lowercase ) one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
                    Websters
                    god noun
                    \ˈgäd also ˈgȯd \
                    Definition of god (Entry 1 of 2)
                    1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: such as
                    a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe
                    b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
                    2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship
                    specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
                    Greek gods of love and war
                    3 : a person or thing of supreme value
                    had photos of baseball's gods pinned to his bedroom wall
                    4 : a powerful ruler
                    Hollywood gods that control our movies' fates
                    Does Satan possess more than NATURAL abilities and powers? Are there those who worship him? does he have influence on worldly affairs?

                    If the answer is yes, then he is a 'god'.. and he is real.

                    Now despite the specious claim of the antiMormon OP.. LDS do not suggest Satan is a 'God' like our Father in Heaven. Far from it.
                    Last edited by oceancoast; 12-08-18, 09:25 PM.
                    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                    We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
                      On another apologetic forum this was posted: "My postulation is Paul testified satan is a god--the god of this world; If that is true--that certainly destroys any notion Paul was monotheistic-"

                      Do Mormons here agree with that statement? Is Satan a real god? Was Paul NOT a monotheist?

                      I'd like the Mormons here to have the intestinal fortitude to be honest.
                      OK--let's be honest. That Paul testified satan is the god of this world ---would be trumped only by Jesus Christ's testimony of the reality of multiple gods:

                      John 10:34-35 ---King James Version (KJV)
                      34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
                      35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

                      So--does that destroy any notion Jesus was monotheistic?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                        OK--let's be honest. That Paul testified satan is the god of this world ---would be trumped only by Jesus Christ's testimony of the reality of multiple gods:

                        John 10:34-35 ---King James Version (KJV)
                        34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
                        35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

                        So--does that destroy any notion Jesus was monotheistic?
                        Actually, Theo has a point. Where did Paul ever say that Satan was the god of this world? Jesus was God in the flesh, so if I was you I'd be very careful of what you say on this forum about Him. I'm sure the Mormon forums wouldn't really care.
                        Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post


                          OK--let's be honest. That Paul testified satan is the god of this world ---would be trumped only by Jesus Christ's testimony of the reality of multiple gods:

                          John 10:34-35 ---King James Version (KJV)
                          34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
                          35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

                          So--does that destroy any notion Jesus was monotheistic?
                          Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
                          Actually, Theo has a point. Where did Paul ever say that Satan was the god of this world?
                          That might be a good diversion.

                          So--maybe we should ask Theo--who was Paul identifying as "the god of this world" in 2Cor4:4?

                          2 Corinthians 4:4-- King James Version (KJV)
                          4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

                            Actually, Theo has a point. Where did Paul ever say that Satan was the god of this world?
                            it depends on what translation you use...
                            2 Corinthians 4:4 New Living Translation (NLT)
                            4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

                            2 Corinthians 4:4 Living Bible (TLB)
                            4 Satan, who is the god of this evil world, has made him blind, unable to see the glorious light of the Gospel that is shining upon him or to understand the amazing message we preach about the glory of Christ, who is God.[a]



                            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                            We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post



                              That might be a good diversion.

                              So--maybe we should ask Theo--who was Paul identifying as "the god of this world" in 2Cor4:4?

                              2 Corinthians 4:4-- King James Version (KJV)
                              4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
                              Ask him yourself. He appears to be right to me.
                              Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

                              Comment

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