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Ephesians 2, Part 1

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  • #31
    Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post



    Could you explain how you are relating Hebrews11 to the above scripture?

    My point was pointed at this post:



    So--should we consider James a "Good Christian Jew"--or Yodas in error---21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works,
    You figure it out. It isn't rocket science. Answer my question, and then it will be obvious, how they are related: BY WHAT did Abe obey God? According to Hebrews 11?


    And what did God credit to Abe as righteousness?

    Romans 4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    Justification by Faith Evidenced in Old Testament

    4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6

    Last edited by Bonnie; 01-10-19, 03:03 PM.
    "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
    "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
    "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
    "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
    "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by dianaiad View Post
      Why, oh why, do our critics so love to pretend that James doesn't exist?
      Maybe they believe James is an "epistle of straw".

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

        BY WHAT did Abe do his great works, according to Hebrews 11? Care to tell us?
        You are still preaching a theology heavy on believing but very light on obeying which leads to sitting on one’s salvation and to Cheap Grace. Your emphasis is wrong.

        Now if you were teaching legalistic and Phariseic Jews your emphasis might be spot on. They are more than willing to tithe of their mint and their dill but have a huge blind spot for anything more esoteric than the letter of the law. With that crowd you might want to de-emphasize the role of works and get them focused on understanding their dependence on the Savior.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

          Maybe they believe James is an "epistle of straw".
          Maybe they believe James only so far as he is translated correctly?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by dianaiad View Post

            Why, oh why, do our critics so love to pretend that James doesn't exist?
            Who ever wrote that? We know that book exists. We have even studied it in Bible class.

            But I have never seen a Mormon quote THIS verse from James: "Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles in one point is guilty of ALL of it."

            Mormons are so sure they keep God's commandments, so God should commend them, right? And yet--stumble in only one point, and they are right back to square one, needing to start over...

            Poor Mormons...never knowing if they are good enough, expanded their best efforts, done all that they need to do...they can just hope they have done enough. But they never know...because they are relying on their own imperfect works to perfect themselves.

            Impossible. As Paul wrote,

            Galatians 3:3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)


            3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
            We cannot perfect ourselves. Only by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord are we made perfect, but ONLY in HIM.

            Mormonism is all about obedience. But Christ Jesus is all about GRACE. May you come to to realize and accept and BELIEVE that, before it is too late.
            Last edited by Bonnie; 01-10-19, 03:25 PM.
            "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
            "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
            "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
            "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
            "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by JustaLurker View Post

              You are still preaching a theology heavy on believing but very light on obeying which leads to sitting on one’s salvation and to Cheap Grace. Your emphasis is wrong.

              Now if you were teaching legalistic and Phariseic Jews your emphasis might be spot on. They are more than willing to tithe of their mint and their dill but have a huge blind spot for anything more esoteric than the letter of the law. With that crowd you might want to de-emphasize the role of works and get them focused on understanding their dependence on the Savior.
              Mormons are so predictable...I knew this would happen. It is the go-to answer for Mormons, when they cannot refute salvation by Grace through faith and NOT by works. They automatically "assume" Christians just sit on their heinies, after being saved. Well, we know what they say "assume" makes out of us? Right?

              One indwelt by the HS becomes a new creation in Christ Jesus--the old has gone, the new has come! New creations want to do what is pleasing to the Lord. They do not sit on their laurels. But Mormons do not understand this. They cannot, without the HS. For such things must be spiritually discerned, and without the HS...it is just foolishness to them.

              But DO tell us...are these works James talks about temple works? Tithing to be worthy to get into them? Wearing undergarments with Masonic symbols on them? Observing the WoW?

              "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
              "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
              "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
              "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
              "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

                Mormons are so predictable...I knew this would happen. It is the go-to answer for Mormons, when they cannot refute salvation by Grace through faith and NOT by works. They automatically "assume" Christians just sit on their heinies, after being saved.
                It is not an assumption. It is a proven fact. It is attested to by the likes of Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Pew Research. Y’all have a major problem and it stems from your lack of emphasis on the necessity of obeying the commandments.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
                  One indwelt by the HS becomes a new creation in Christ Jesus
                  Yes, he does, as long as he continues to work at it since that is how the change occurs. If he refuses to work at it the Holy Spirit quickly leaves him and he remains right where he began.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
                    Who ever wrote that? We know that book exists. We have even studied it in Bible class.

                    But I have never seen a Mormon quote THIS verse from James: "Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles in one point is guilty of ALL of it."
                    That's because the LDS don't believe they live under the Mosaic Law.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                      That's because the LDS don't believe they live under the Mosaic Law.
                      Which Covenant do you live under?
                      Be light. Share The Gospel. Grow the Kingdom...

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Yodas_Prodigy View Post
                        Which Covenant do you live under?
                        This one:

                        Hebrews 8:8-13--- King James Version (KJV)
                        8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
                        9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
                        10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
                        11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
                        12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
                        13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.



                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                          This one:

                          Hebrews 8:8-13--- King James Version (KJV)
                          8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
                          9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
                          10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
                          11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
                          12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
                          13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


                          So, who is Israel and who is Judah? When were they brought back together?
                          Be light. Share The Gospel. Grow the Kingdom...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

                            But DO tell us...are these works James talks about temple works? Tithing to be worthy to get into them? Wearing undergarments with Masonic symbols on them? Observing the WoW?
                            It is not "works," but living by the word of God:

                            D&C 84:

                            44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.

                            D&C 98:

                            11 And I give unto you a commandment, that ye shall forsake all evil and cleave unto all good, that ye shall live by every word which proceedeth forth out of the mouth of God.

                            D&C 136:

                            37 Therefore, marvel not at these things, for ye are not yet pure; ye can not yet bear my glory; but ye shall behold it if ye are faithful in keeping all my words that I have given you, from the days of Adam to Abraham, from Abraham to Moses, from Moses to Jesus and his apostles, and from Jesus and his apostles to Joseph Smith, whom I did call upon by mine angels, my ministering servants, and by mine own voice out of the heavens, to bring forth my work;
                            zerinus
                            I am a Mormon!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Yodas_Prodigy View Post

                              Which Covenant do you live under?
                              The New and Everlasting Covenant:

                              D&C 22:

                              1 Behold, I say unto you that all old covenants have I caused to be done away in this thing; and this is a new and an everlasting covenant, even that which was from the beginning.
                              zerinus
                              I am a Mormon!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Yodas_Prodigy View Post
                                So, who is Israel and who is Judah? When were they brought back together?
                                Israel is anyone who is adopted to Christ--and become heirs with Christ, and the seed of Abraham, and partakers of the promise:

                                Galatians 3:26-29 ---King James Version (KJV)
                                26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
                                27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
                                28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
                                29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

                                Comment

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