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Post for Bonnie's questions

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
    So what if the link is not on this board? It STILL dealt with your question! And proves that I and others DID answer your question and deal with your post and Bible verse.
    How could that be so--seeing the link led to a page which you didn't even contain a post from you to me?

    But THIS thread IS on THIS board, and I answered your question on THAT thread in posts nos. 106, 107, 109, and especially 113.
    Post # 106--

    Bonnie's post #106--"Once again, gentle readers and guests, my points and bible verses are ignored. WHY?

    I guess St. Paul must have preached a salvation by faith without works--a "dead" faith, here, eh?

    For it is by grace you are saved; through faith--and this NOT of yourselves; it is the GIFT OF GOD--and NOT BY WORKS, so no one may boast. For we are God's handiwork, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS FOR GOOD WORKS, which He prepared in advance for us to do, so that we may walk in them."
    Of course, you have never answered my question about whether a faith that enables us to believe in and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and God and Savior is dead. Can a dead faith enable us to trust in Jesus for our salvation, great and free? Why not answer that simple question, dberrie?

    So once again dberrie, Paul clearly says "and NOT BY WORKS" so no one may boast. He also says we have been created IN CHRIST JESUS for good works. See that? IN Christ Jesus. What does that mean, dberrie? If you had ever bothered to answer my questions about these verses you would know. And if you had answered me correctly, then you would understand that there is no contradiction between what Paul and James write.

    You wrote on another thread that you expect us to deal with your posted bible verses. Well, we expect you to deal with ours. We have dealt with yours time without number. Time to pony up, dberrie and answer MY questions and points about Ephesians 2:8-10."
    Could you point out where you addresses the question---"Meanwhile-- please reveal to us--what works do you add to faith in obtaining salvation? Specifically--what works?"

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
      So what if the link is not on this board? It STILL dealt with your question! And proves that I and others DID answer your question and deal with your post and Bible verse.

      But THIS thread IS on THIS board, and I answered your question on THAT thread in posts nos. 106, 107, 109, and especially 113.

      https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/cu...s-christ/page8


      I am tired of repeating myself.

      Good bye.
      Post #107--

      Bonnie's post #107---"This is the work of GOD--that you believe on Him Whom God has sent." (Jesus Christ)
      I asked for what "works" you add to faith in obtaining salvation,IE--

      "Meanwhile-- please reveal to us--what works do you add to faith in obtaining salvation? Specifically--what works?"



      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
        Post #109

        "Clarification isn't needed; just an excuse to stall answering me. For I have answered this time without number. It is by a faith THAT WORKS.

        Now you answer MY question: which comes first--faith or works? Do we do works IN faith or OUT of faith? Can a dead faith enable us to believe and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and God and Savior?

        According to Hebrews 11, BY WHAT did Abraham and all the other great people mentioned therein do their works? Care to answer that simple question, which I have also asked you before and which, to my knowledge, you never answered?"
        Where do we find any answer to my question in your post? You demand answers--and use the same retort---"I have answered this time without number",

        Where have we heard that before?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
          Post#113

          Yes, they do have everything to do with salvation by grace through faith!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And a living faith LEADS to works. Exactly! SO, if this faith LEADS to doing good works, then it isn't a dead faith, is it? IF the faith is LIVING, then it will lead to doing good works. But even that faith is a GIFT FROM GOD, as per Eph. 2:8-9. And also Jesus said "This is the WORK OF GOD--that you believe on Him Whom God has sent."

          Deal with these verses, dberrie. Being able to believe in Jesus Christ is GOD's doing, not ours! It is GOD's work, done in us, through the Gospel message.


          James is talking about a faith that LEADS to doing good works--he mentions how Abraham's faith enabled him to offer up Isaac at God's command--but this was DECADES AFTER Genesis says that "Abram believed God and it was CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.'

          Romans 4 English Standard Version (ESV)

          Abraham Justified by Faith

          4 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

          SO--which came first in Abraham--his works OR his faith in God and His promises?

          What good works did the thief on the cross do, that accompanied his faith in Jesus so that Jesus said he would be with Him that very day in Paradise?

          So tell us how a DEAD faith can enable a person to believe and trust in Jesus Christ for salvation....?

          Answer these ponts; they are worthy of being answered. So are the ones in the link I posted. And the one I asked about Paul in Eph. 2--did HE preach a "dead faith"? Since he wrote "and NOT BY WORKS, SO NO ONE MAY BOAST"?

          OR are only YOURS the ones that deserve answering?
          Another confusing post, IMO. Where does it specifically identify what works are included in obtaining salvation?

          You ask some questions--and again--demand I answer your questions--but nothing to answer my question, IE---

          "Meanwhile-- please reveal to us--what works do you add to faith in obtaining salvation? Specifically--what works?"

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
            I asked you questions about the temple and works done therein, which you posted in your post no. 21. You said you were amxious to amswer my questions. You failed to answer those. Apparently you were joking aboit that, since I got bupkiss.
            Those questions were not addressed in post #21--they were answered in post #3. Please review that post----if you have any further questions, or feel they were not a complete answers for what you were searching for----I am here for you in this thread--just to answer your questions. Please ask any additional questions you might have. I promise to answer your questions to the best of my ability. Thanks for all your questions. I would like for you to ask more of them. Please feel free to ask any questions you have--which you feel either were not answered--or not answered to your satisfaction. I am here to please your requests in all your questions--if I am able to do so.

            Meanwhile--what specific works do you add to faith in obtaining salvation?

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Bonnie View Post Post #109

              "Clarification isn't needed; just an excuse to stall answering me. For I have answered this time without number. It is by a faith THAT WORKS.

              Now you answer MY question: which comes first--faith or works?
              I believe either one could come first---but to have living faith--they must be combined, or else--it's dead faith:

              James 2:20-26 ---King James Version (KJV)
              20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
              21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
              22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
              23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
              24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
              25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
              26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

              Comment


              • #37
                Obviously faith "belief" before works "action".

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                  No one has claimed they are part of the ten commandments--anymore than repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins is.

                  So--isn't that a similar argument the traditional Jews was making against Paul--and the rest of the apostles?

                  Where did they find any reference to the gift of the Holy Ghost--apostles--repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins--the name of Jesus Christ?

                  Well--they came up with it the same way the LDS do--and any other restorative movement found in the Biblical text--by way of continuing revelation. A church without that--isn't the Lord's church.
                  Some of those things were introduced for the first time in the New Testament, but not all of them. Temple ordinances existed in both OT and NT. They obviously weren't discussed in detail. We have evidence of them, but none of the modern Christians seem to understand what the purpose of them was or even if they were necessary. This is largely because of the lack of apostles or prophets.


                  "...for now is our salvation nearer to us than when we believed." Romans 13:11 -- What else must be done to move past belief? Faith is belief in action. It is works unto salvation.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Apostolic1ness View Post
                    Obviously faith "belief" before works "action".
                    So, you're saying that belief is the same as faith? or that belief is faith?
                    "...for now is our salvation nearer to us than when we believed." Romans 13:11 -- What else must be done to move past belief? Faith is belief in action. It is works unto salvation.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by BrotherofJared View Post
                      Some of those things were introduced for the first time in the New Testament, but not all of them. Temple ordinances existed in both OT and NT. They obviously weren't discussed in detail. We have evidence of them, but none of the modern Christians seem to understand what the purpose of them was or even if they were necessary. This is largely because of the lack of apostles or prophets.
                      My claim is not when they were first introduced--but that there is no specific mention of them found in the OT. For instance---I don't believe the name of Jesus Christ was first introduced in the NT--but it isn't found in the OT text.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Apostolic1ness View Post
                        Obviously faith "belief" before works "action".
                        Since the Biblical text identifies faith without works as dead---are you claiming one is saved through dead faith?

                        James 2:20-26--- King James Version (KJV)
                        20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
                        21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
                        22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
                        23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
                        24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
                        25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
                        26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                          Since the Biblical text identifies faith without works as dead---are you claiming one is saved through dead faith?

                          James 2:20-26--- King James Version (KJV)
                          20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
                          21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
                          22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
                          23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
                          24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
                          25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
                          26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
                          I believe faith is demonstrated through and by works. I do not believe faith is a mere mental concoction but faith is a belief accompanied with action. Example: faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. But a lack of obedience or response to the word will not lead to salvation. Acts 2 ...they that gladly received the word "heard and believed" were baptized "action/response".

                          My position is real faith demands action.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by BrotherofJared View Post

                            So, you're saying that belief is the same as faith? or that belief is faith?
                            I believe the question was asked "what comes first faith or works?" So yes obviously faith.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Apostolic1ness View Post
                              I believe faith is demonstrated through and by works. I do not believe faith is a mere mental concoction but faith is a belief accompanied with action. Example: faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. But a lack of obedience or response to the word will not lead to salvation. Acts 2 ...they that gladly received the word "heard and believed" were baptized "action/response".

                              My position is real faith demands action.
                              Mine also. But the theology preached here is a faith without works in obtaining salvation.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                                Mine also. But the theology preached here is a faith without works in obtaining salvation.
                                False. Living biblical faith contains works, i.e. the evidence that one actually believes. It is not a daily check list but a way of life led by the Holy Spirit. You have been schooled on this so many times it is ridiculous. Yet you fail to understand and keep singing the same old tune.
                                I am just a miserable sinner saved by grace, called according to His purposes, made righteous and holy by faith in Jesus and who can now boldly enter the throne room of heaven itself.

                                Comment

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