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  • Mormons have told my pastor wrong information

    we are having a debate near me between Mormons and a Bible college and my Pastor was invited. The LDS leader convinced him the LDS teach salvation by Grace alone. Which my Pastor was assured is LDS beliefs. I sent him below there true teachings on that subject



    Articles of Faith

    by James E. Talmage Faux Mormon Apostle

    Page 107



    Faith and Works—Faith in a passive sense, that is, as mere belief in the more superficial sense of the term, is inefficient as a means of salvation. This truth was clearly set forth both by Christ and the apostles, and the vigor with which it was declared may be an indication of the early development of a most pernicious doctrine—that of justification by belief alone. The Savior taught that works were essential to the validity of profession and the efficacy of faith. Mark his words: "Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." 37 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." 38 The exposition by James is particularly explicit: "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." 39 And to this may be added the words of John: "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." 40



    Marvelous Work and a Wonder

    by LeGrand Richards LDS faux Apostle

    Chapter 4

    Erroneous Teachings of Christian Churches



    One erroneous teaching of many Christian churches is: By faith alone we are saved. This false doctrine would relieve man from the responsibility of his acts other than to confess a belief in God and would teach man that no matter how great the sin, a confession would bring him complete forgiveness and salvation. What the world needs is more preaching of the necessity of abstaining from sin and of living useful and righteous lives, and less preaching of forgiveness of sin. This would then be a different world. The truth is that men must repent of their sins and forsake them before they can expect forgiveness. Even when our sins are forgiven, God cannot reward us for the good we have not done.



    The prophet Mormon, who lived upon the American continent about A.D. 400, foretold the coming of the plates from which the Book of Mormon should be translated and described the condition of the churches that should then be found among the people:



    Yea, it shall come in a day when the power of God shall be denied, and churches become defiled and be lifted up in the pride of their hearts; yea, even in a day when the leaders of churches and teachers shall rise in the pride of their hearts, even to the envying of them who belong to their churches.



    Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be churches built up that shall say: Come unto me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins. (Mormon 8:28, 32.)
    And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

  • #2
    Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
    we are having a debate near me between Mormons and a Bible college and my Pastor was invited. The LDS leader convinced him the LDS teach salvation by Grace alone. Which my Pastor was assured is LDS beliefs. I sent him below there true teachings on that subject



    Articles of Faith

    by James E. Talmage Faux Mormon Apostle

    Page 107



    Faith and Works—Faith in a passive sense, that is, as mere belief in the more superficial sense of the term, is inefficient as a means of salvation. This truth was clearly set forth both by Christ and the apostles, and the vigor with which it was declared may be an indication of the early development of a most pernicious doctrine—that of justification by belief alone.
    This makes sense. Faith without works is dead, therefore; faith and works are two sides of the same coin. Likewise, works alone cannot save us. I believe the confusion that people think by works, we can be saved by the merits of our works. No such doctrine exists in our theology.

    There are things one must do to be saved, not the least of which is to accept Christ as our Savior. One must receive Christ and follow Him to the best of our ability to be saved.

    Salvation comes through the merits of Christ alone. Accepting Christ is a choice we make.

    Marvelous Work and a Wonder

    by LeGrand Richards LDS faux Apostle

    Chapter 4

    Erroneous Teachings of Christian Churches

    One erroneous teaching of many Christian churches is: By faith alone we are saved.
    Correct. Faith can never exist alone. It must be accompanied by the works that show that faith.

    "...for now is our salvation nearer to us than when we believed." Romans 13:11 -- What else must be done to move past belief? Faith is belief in action. It is works unto salvation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
      we are having a debate near me between Mormons and a Bible college and my Pastor was invited. The LDS leader convinced him the LDS teach salvation by Grace alone. Which my Pastor was assured is LDS beliefs. I sent him below there true teachings on that subject

      * * *
      You are confusing "faith alone" with "grace alone". "Grace alone" does not translate into "faith alone". "Grace alone" means that without the grace of God, which is extended to us through the Atonement, no one could be saved, no matter what they did. This does not mean that people don't need to keep the commandants of God, or to repent of their sins to be saved. "Faith alone" doesn't save anyone, without repentance and keeping God's commandments. This is not the same as "works". We are not "saved by our own works". we are saved by God when we do what he says. But it is true that without the grace of God no one could be saved, no matter what they did. But people still need to repent of their sins, and keep God's commandments to be saved.
      zerinus
      I am a Mormon!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
        we are having a debate near me between Mormons and a Bible college and my Pastor was invited. The LDS leader convinced him the LDS teach salvation by Grace alone. Which my Pastor was assured is LDS beliefs. I sent him below there true teachings on that subject

        Marvelous Work and a Wonder

        by LeGrand Richards LDS faux Apostle

        Chapter 4

        Erroneous Teachings of Christian Churches

        One erroneous teaching of many Christian churches is: By faith alone we are saved.
        That seems to comport to the Biblical witness:

        James 2:24-- New American Standard Bible (NASB)
        24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
          we are having a debate near me between Mormons and a Bible college and my Pastor was invited. The LDS leader convinced him the LDS teach salvation by Grace alone. Which my Pastor was assured is LDS beliefs. I sent him below there true teachings on that subject



          Articles of Faith

          by James E. Talmage Faux Mormon Apostle

          Page 107



          Faith and Works—Faith in a passive sense, that is, as mere belief in the more superficial sense of the term, is inefficient as a means of salvation. This truth was clearly set forth both by Christ and the apostles, and the vigor with which it was declared may be an indication of the early development of a most pernicious doctrine—that of justification by belief alone. The Savior taught that works were essential to the validity of profession and the efficacy of faith. Mark his words: "Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." 37 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." 38 The exposition by James is particularly explicit: "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." 39 And to this may be added the words of John: "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." 40



          Marvelous Work and a Wonder

          by LeGrand Richards LDS faux Apostle

          Chapter 4

          Erroneous Teachings of Christian Churches



          One erroneous teaching of many Christian churches is: By faith alone we are saved. This false doctrine would relieve man from the responsibility of his acts other than to confess a belief in God and would teach man that no matter how great the sin, a confession would bring him complete forgiveness and salvation. What the world needs is more preaching of the necessity of abstaining from sin and of living useful and righteous lives, and less preaching of forgiveness of sin. This would then be a different world. The truth is that men must repent of their sins and forsake them before they can expect forgiveness. Even when our sins are forgiven, God cannot reward us for the good we have not done.



          The prophet Mormon, who lived upon the American continent about A.D. 400, foretold the coming of the plates from which the Book of Mormon should be translated and described the condition of the churches that should then be found among the people:



          Yea, it shall come in a day when the power of God shall be denied, and churches become defiled and be lifted up in the pride of their hearts; yea, even in a day when the leaders of churches and teachers shall rise in the pride of their hearts, even to the envying of them who belong to their churches.



          Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be churches built up that shall say: Come unto me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins. (Mormon 8:28, 32.)
          You need to find a new church and pastor........your pastor has zero discernment .
          No conviction,No conversion
          John 16:8
          And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bigboy View Post

            You need to find a new church and pastor........your pastor has zero discernment .
            My Pastor believed a high ranking Mormon, and asked me what I thought since he hasn't studied Mormonism and he knew I had
            And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post

              My Pastor believed a high ranking Mormon, and asked me what I thought since he hasn't studied Mormonism and he knew I had



              So your pastor, had no idea why they are called a cult ? Your pastor has zero discernment.....and zero credibility at this point.
              No conviction,No conversion
              John 16:8
              And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                That seems to comport to the Biblical witness:
                Then you do NOT KNOW what "the Biblical witness" teaches, obviously...

                Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

                What exactly do you think "not of works" means?

                2 Tim. 1:9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

                What exactly do you think "not according to our works" means?

                Tit. 3:5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

                What exactly do you think "not by works" means?

                Rom. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

                What exactly do you think "worketh not" means?

                Rom. 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

                What exactly do you think "no more of works" means?




                And since you apparently LOVE the ECF's so much, they are in agreement (not with you):


                “Whosoever will candidly consider each particular, will recognize the greatness of the gifts which were given by him. For from him have sprung the priests and all the Levites who minister at the altar of God. From him also [was descended] our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. From him [arose] kings, princes, and rulers of the race of Judah. Nor are his other tribes in small glory, inasmuch as God had promised, ‘Thy seed shall be as the stars of heaven.’ All these, therefore, were highly honored, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will. And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works we have have wrought in holiness of heart, but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.”
                - Clement, First Epistle to the Corinthians, Ch. 32 (AD 99)

                “Every mystery which is enacted by our Lord Jesus Christ asks only for faith. The mystery was enacted at that time for our sake and aimed at our resurrection and liberation, should we have faith in the mystery of Christ and in Christ.”
                - Marius Victorinus Epistle to the Galatians,1.3.7 (AD 356)

                “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord, that Christ has been made by God for us in righteousness, wisdom, justification, redemption. This is perfect and pure boasting in God, when one is not proud on account of his own righteousness but knows that he is indeed unworthy of the true righteousness and is (or has been) justified solely by faith in Christ.”
                - Basil of Caesarea, Homilia XX, Homilia De Humilitate (AD 379)

                “God has decreed that a person who believes in Christ can be saved without works. By faith alone he receives the forgiveness of sins.”
                - Ambrosiaster, on 1 Cor 1:14b (AD 384)

                “They are justified freely because they have not done anything nor given anything in return, but by faith alone they have been made holy by the gift of God.”
                - Ambrosiaster, on Rom. 3:24 (AD 384)

                “The patriarch Abraham himself before receiving circumcision had been declared righteous on the score of faith alone; before circumcision, the text says, ‘Abraham believed God, and credit for it brought him to righteousness.”
                - Chrysostom, Homilies on Genesis, 27.7 (AD 407)

                “See he calls the faith also a law delighting to keep to the names, and so allay the seeming novelty. But what is the ‘law of faith’? It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God’s power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only.”
                - Chrysostom, Homilies on the Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans, Homily 7, vs. 27 (AD 407)

                For a person who had no works, to be justified by faith, was nothing unlikely. But for a person richly adorned with good deeds, not to be made just from hence, but from faith, this is the thing to cause wonder, and to set the power of faith in a strong light.”
                - Chrysostom, Homilies on the Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans, Homily 8, Rom. 4:1-2 (AD 407)

                “God justifies by faith alone” (“Deus ex sola fide justificat”)
                - Jerome, Epestolam Ad Romanos, Caput X, v.3 (AD 420)

                “What Paul meant was that no one obtains the gift of justification on the basis of merits derived from works performed beforehand, but they gift of justification comes only from faith.”
                - Bede, Cited from the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture (ed. Gerald Bray), NT, vol. 11, p. 31.(AD 735)

                "But in addition that you might believe also this, that sins are given to you individually, this is the testimony, which the Holy Spirit bestows in your heart, saying, Your sins are forgiven by you. For the Apostle thinks thus, that man is gratuitously justified through faith."
                - Bernard of Clairvaux , First Sermon on the Annunciation (AD 1153)

                “Therefore the hope of justification is not found in them [the moral and ceremonial requirements of the law], but in faith alone.”
                - Thomas Aquinas, Expositio in Ep. I ad Timotheum cap. 1, lect. 3 (AD 1274)



                Funny how you think the ECF's have "veto" power over the Bible when you think it suits your purpose, but when it doesn't, you throw them under the bus.
                Funny how that works, isn't it?
                "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
                but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
                -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bigboy View Post




                  So your pastor, had no idea why they are called a cult ? Your pastor has zero discernment.....and zero credibility at this point.
                  Since my Pastor talked to a HI ranking Mormon, who convinced him they had changed there teaching to be equivalent to Orthodox teachings he needed to reinforce what he was told he asked me to find out and go with him to the debate. He just believed the Mormon lies
                  And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post
                    Then you do NOT KNOW what "the Biblical witness" teaches, obviously...

                    Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

                    What exactly do you think "not of works" means?
                    As Paul uses it, for the main--certain rituals found under the Mosaic Law--such as circumcision.

                    For instance:

                    Romans 2:5-11--- King James Version (KJV)
                    5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
                    6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
                    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
                    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
                    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
                    10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
                    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

                    Could you collate the anomaly of your position and theology, IE--how you believe Paul is referring to deeds done in the body--with Paul connecting deeds and eternal life together?

                    Galatians 6:7-9--- King James Version (KJV)
                    7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
                    8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
                    9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post
                      And since you apparently LOVE the ECF's so much, they are in agreement (not with you):

                      “Whosoever will candidly consider each particular, will recognize the greatness of the gifts which were given by him. For from him have sprung the priests and all the Levites who minister at the altar of God. From him also [was descended] our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. From him [arose] kings, princes, and rulers of the race of Judah. Nor are his other tribes in small glory, inasmuch as God had promised, ‘Thy seed shall be as the stars of heaven.’ All these, therefore, were highly honored, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will. And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works we have have wrought in holiness of heart, but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.”
                      - Clement, First Epistle to the Corinthians, Ch. 32 (AD 99)

                      “Every mystery which is enacted by our Lord Jesus Christ asks only for faith. The mystery was enacted at that time for our sake and aimed at our resurrection and liberation, should we have faith in the mystery of Christ and in Christ.”
                      - Marius Victorinus Epistle to the Galatians,1.3.7 (AD 356)

                      “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord, that Christ has been made by God for us in righteousness, wisdom, justification, redemption. This is perfect and pure boasting in God, when one is not proud on account of his own righteousness but knows that he is indeed unworthy of the true righteousness and is (or has been) justified solely by faith in Christ.”
                      - Basil of Caesarea, Homilia XX, Homilia De Humilitate (AD 379)

                      “God has decreed that a person who believes in Christ can be saved without works. By faith alone he receives the forgiveness of sins.”
                      - Ambrosiaster, on 1 Cor 1:14b (AD 384)

                      “They are justified freely because they have not done anything nor given anything in return, but by faith alone they have been made holy by the gift of God.”
                      - Ambrosiaster, on Rom. 3:24 (AD 384)

                      “The patriarch Abraham himself before receiving circumcision had been declared righteous on the score of faith alone; before circumcision, the text says, ‘Abraham believed God, and credit for it brought him to righteousness.”
                      - Chrysostom, Homilies on Genesis, 27.7 (AD 407)

                      “See he calls the faith also a law delighting to keep to the names, and so allay the seeming novelty. But what is the ‘law of faith’? It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God’s power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only.”
                      - Chrysostom, Homilies on the Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans, Homily 7, vs. 27 (AD 407)

                      For a person who had no works, to be justified by faith, was nothing unlikely. But for a person richly adorned with good deeds, not to be made just from hence, but from faith, this is the thing to cause wonder, and to set the power of faith in a strong light.”
                      - Chrysostom, Homilies on the Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans, Homily 8, Rom. 4:1-2 (AD 407)

                      “God justifies by faith alone” (“Deus ex sola fide justificat”)
                      - Jerome, Epestolam Ad Romanos, Caput X, v.3 (AD 420)

                      “What Paul meant was that no one obtains the gift of justification on the basis of merits derived from works performed beforehand, but they gift of justification comes only from faith.”
                      - Bede, Cited from the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture (ed. Gerald Bray), NT, vol. 11, p. 31.(AD 735)

                      "But in addition that you might believe also this, that sins are given to you individually, this is the testimony, which the Holy Spirit bestows in your heart, saying, Your sins are forgiven by you. For the Apostle thinks thus, that man is gratuitously justified through faith."
                      - Bernard of Clairvaux , First Sermon on the Annunciation (AD 1153)

                      “Therefore the hope of justification is not found in them [the moral and ceremonial requirements of the law], but in faith alone.”
                      - Thomas Aquinas, Expositio in Ep. I ad Timotheum cap. 1, lect. 3 (AD 1274)


                      Funny how you think the ECF's have "veto" power over the Bible when you think it suits your purpose, but when it doesn't, you throw them under the bus.
                      Funny how that works, isn't it?
                      When the Early Church Fathers used the term "faith alone"--they were distinguishing the gospel from the Mosaic Law---they had no such theology as the faith alone theology of today preaches.

                      And anyone who testified men could become gods--or that water baptism and regeneration are tied to one another--could never come into the faith alone camp of today unarmed.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post

                        Then you do NOT KNOW what "the Biblical witness" teaches, obviously...

                        Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

                        What exactly do you think "not of works" means?
                        You already know what we "think" it means and if you'd read just a little bit further, you'd know what it means too. He is specifically talking about the works of the Law, not good works since in just a few more words he tells us that there are good works that we should walk in them.

                        The question you all never seem to answer is, what if a person doesn't do these good works? Are they saved? And if they are not saved, then obviously, works are as important as is faith. Hence, they are two sides of the same coin.

                        2 Tim. 1:9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

                        What exactly do you think "not according to our works" means?
                        Exactly what it says, we're saved by grace and not according to our works. Nothing we can do could possibly save us. The question is, what does it mean to believe in Christ? If anyone thinks it is lip service, that person will surely fall short of the promise. We have to do whatever we can do to keep covenants with Christ. His promises rely on keeping those covenants. Works are necessary, but in and of themselves, they are not salvational. Only through the merits of Christ can we be saved.

                        Tit. 3:5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

                        What exactly do you think "not by works" means?
                        Read just a little bit further, Righteous works may not have saved us, but "be careful to maintain good works" "but avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law [for] a man [who knowingly does] such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned himself".

                        Clearly, while Righteous works aren't the basis for salvation, grace is, continuing in sin is the basis for condemnation. There is a certain expectation for good works which if one chooses not to adhere to these good works, then condemnation follows. The power to do these good works comes through regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Ghost, but good works are still necessary.

                        Rom. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

                        What exactly do you think "worketh not" means?
                        These are works of the law which never had the power to save, but it was through works that were not of the law, that Abraham was justified.

                        Rom. 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

                        What exactly do you think "no more of works" means?
                        It means that no matter how many good works we do, it can't save us for we are saved by grace, IF we remain in the covenant.

                        "...for now is our salvation nearer to us than when we believed." Romans 13:11 -- What else must be done to move past belief? Faith is belief in action. It is works unto salvation.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post

                          Since my Pastor talked to a HI ranking Mormon, who convinced him they had changed there teaching to be equivalent to Orthodox teachings he needed to reinforce what he was told he asked me to find out and go with him to the debate. He just believed the Mormon lies
                          Our teachings haven't changed. Salvation still comes through Christ and always has. The rumor mill has just cranked out a bunch of lies about what we believe and some people happen to believe that trash.
                          "...for now is our salvation nearer to us than when we believed." Romans 13:11 -- What else must be done to move past belief? Faith is belief in action. It is works unto salvation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post
                            When the Early Church Fathers used the term "faith alone"--they were distinguishing the gospel from the Mosaic Law---they had no such theology as the faith alone theology of today preaches.

                            And anyone who testified men could become gods--or that water baptism and regeneration are tied to one another--could never come into the faith alone camp of today unarmed.
                            Theo???

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                              Theo???
                              <bump> for dberrie....
                              "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
                              but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
                              -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

                              Comment

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