Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

God justifieth the ungodly...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • God justifieth the ungodly...

    Rom. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    Rom. 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    Rom. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.


    Christ died "for the ungodly", He died "while we were yet sinners", He "justified the ungodly".

    Not only is it Biblically true, but it makes sense. One who is "godly" is ALREADY justified, by his own virtues and actions.
    Only the "ungodly" is in need of justification.

    But Mormons don't like that.
    Even Joseph Smith didn't like that.
    For Smith wrote:

    Rom. 4:5 But to him that seeketh not to be justified by the law of works, but believeth on him who justifieth not the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.(JST)

    A couple of funny things, though...

    1) There doesn't exist ANY Greek manuscript in the world that reads, "justifieth NOT the ungodly", no Latin manuscript, no old Italian, no Coptic, no Syriac, no Ugaritic, NO manuscript justifies Smith's bastardization of the Scriptures at this point.

    2) Somehow Smith "forgot" to make a similar change at Rom. 5:6... I guess his "inspiration" hat was on the blink or something, I don't know...







    God justifies the ungodly.

    That's why we are saved by grace, and "not by works" (Eph. 2:8-9, Tit. 3:5, 2 Tim. 1:9, Rom. 4:1-5, Rom. 11:5-6, etc. etc.)
    We can't DO any "works" that would even contribute to our salvation, since the best of our "works" is as filthy menstrual rags (Isa. 64:6).

    ONLY the blood of CHRIST can wash us clean.
    Christ's atonement didn't merely buy "resurrection" for us, it purchased ETERNAL LIFE in the DIRECT PRESENCE of God the Father.

    Praise God!
    Let's not pollute Christ's blood by trying to add our filthy works to it.
    Let's simply offer works of gratitude TO Christ, they being the RESULTS of our salvation, not mere "requirements" TO our salvation.
    "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
    but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
    -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

  • #2
    There is absolutely nothing that any human could have ever done to earn this gift of God, because it was bestowed upon mankind before any "law" existed on this planet. When one repents and turns away from a lifestyle of sin and walks in the light of Christ, they are empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a Godly lifestyle furnished (by the power of God) unto good works. This lifestyle and the accompanying good works are God directed and are not dictated by any denomination. Mormons tend to that their good works are the dictates of their denomination and not the actual teachings of Jesus
    "You have just constructed a straw man so large you could burn it in the desert and hold an annoying festival around it"


    "One's personal world view can be so powerful that it blinds them to any evidence that contradicts it"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post
      Rom. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

      Rom. 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

      Rom. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.


      Christ died "for the ungodly", He died "while we were yet sinners", He "justified the ungodly".

      Not only is it Biblically true, but it makes sense. One who is "godly" is ALREADY justified, by his own virtues and actions.
      Only the "ungodly" is in need of justification.

      But Mormons don't like that.
      Even Joseph Smith didn't like that.
      For Smith wrote:

      Rom. 4:5 But to him that seeketh not to be justified by the law of works, but believeth on him who justifieth not the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.(JST)

      A couple of funny things, though...

      1) There doesn't exist ANY Greek manuscript in the world that reads, "justifieth NOT the ungodly", no Latin manuscript, no old Italian, no Coptic, no Syriac, no Ugaritic, NO manuscript justifies Smith's bastardization of the Scriptures at this point.

      2) Somehow Smith "forgot" to make a similar change at Rom. 5:6... I guess his "inspiration" hat was on the blink or something, I don't know...







      God justifies the ungodly.

      That's why we are saved by grace, and "not by works" (Eph. 2:8-9, Tit. 3:5, 2 Tim. 1:9, Rom. 4:1-5, Rom. 1
      We can't DO any "works" that would even contribute to our salvation, since the best of our "works" is as filthy menstrual rags (Isa. 64:6).

      ONLY the blood of CHRIST can wash us clean.
      Christ's atonement didn't merely buy "resurrection" for us, it purchased ETERNAL LIFE in the DIRECT PRESENCE of God the Father.

      Praise God!
      Let's not pollute Christ's blood by trying to add our filthy works to it.
      Let's simply offer works of gratitude TO Christ, they being the RESULTS of our salvation, not mere "requirements" TO our salvation.
      Plus, the godly NEED no justification--the UNgodly do.

      And don't forget that the BoM also says something like "God will give you his grace after you deny yourselves of all UNgodliness." I forget the exact quote. The thing is, we cannot do that WITHOUT God's saving grace! For it is ONLY when we are in Christ Jesus our Lord that HIS righteous keeping of the Law and HIS Godliness is credited to us, that we are godly in God's eyes. But it is JESUS' godliness that He sees in us--not OUR unrighteousness. But those lost in works-righteous cults simply cannot see that. The god of this world has blinded them to the truth.
      "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
      "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
      “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
      "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
      "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post Rom. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

        Rom. 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

        Rom. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.


        Christ died "for the ungodly", He died "while we were yet sinners", He "justified the ungodly".
        Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
        Plus, the godly NEED no justification--the UNgodly do.
        Just a note here, folks:

        Yes--all men needed to be "justified"--because of the Fall--the ungodly included:

        Romans 5:18 ---King James Version (KJV)
        18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

        IOW--God justified(absolved) all men from the guilt of the Fall---and gave all men the opportunity to inherit eternal life.

        I believe that confuses some--because they are applying the term "justified"--both to the opportunity to inherit life--and to the personal reception of eternal life.

        "Justified" is used in more than one application in the scriptures, and can mean one is absolved from guilt::

        Definition of justify--Merriem Webster

        Acarchaic :ABSOLVE(and we are talking about an archaic application)


        Definition of absolve--Merriam Webster

        1formal : to set (someone) free from an obligation or the consequences of guilt


        IOW--God absolved all men from the condemnation which befell all men in consequence of guilt, as to the Fall--as a free gift. Absolved from the first death(Fall)--as a free gift to all men--through His Atonement and Resurrection. Both death and hell conquered for all men--as an automatic consequence of the Fall.

        Then there is an accountability to the Redeemer of mankind--as to our personal sins, when we are judged according to our own choices--where the SECOND death has claim to all those whose works were found evil. Those who obey Christ--and follow Him(have faith in Christ)--are justified of their personal sins there--in the form of the forgiveness of their personal sins, and do not suffer the second death.

        There is justification from the first death---and justification of the second death--and they are two distinct justifications.

        The first justification is a free gift to all men--in His Atonement and Resurrection, and releases all men from the consequences of the Fall, as to eternal life, and provide the opportunity to inherit eternal life to all men. The second justification is where one is justified from the second death---where God applies His Blood to the forgiveness of our personal sins--through a walk in His Light.

        1 John 1:7 ---King James Version (KJV)
        7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post
          Just a note here, folks:

          Yes--all men needed to be "justified"--because of the Fall--the ungodly included:

          Romans 5:18 ---King James Version (KJV)
          18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

          IOW--God justified(absolved) all men from the guilt of the Fall---and gave all men the opportunity to inherit eternal life.

          I believe that confuses some--because they are applying the term "justified"--both to the opportunity to inherit life--and to the personal reception of eternal life.

          "Justified" is used in more than one application in the scriptures, and can mean one is absolved from guilt::

          Definition of justify--Merriem Webster

          Acarchaic :ABSOLVE(and we are talking about an archaic application)


          Definition of absolve--Merriam Webster

          1formal : to set (someone) free from an obligation or the consequences of guilt


          IOW--God absolved all men from the condemnation which befell all men in consequence of guilt, as to the Fall--as a free gift. Absolved from the first death(Fall)--as a free gift to all men--through His Atonement and Resurrection. Both death and hell conquered for all men--as an automatic consequence of the Fall.

          Then there is an accountability to the Redeemer of mankind--as to our personal sins, when we are judged according to our own choices--where the SECOND death has claim to all those whose works were found evil. Those who obey Christ--and follow Him(have faith in Christ)--are justified of their personal sins there--in the form of the forgiveness of their personal sins, and do not suffer the second death.

          There is justification from the first death---and justification of the second death--and they are two distinct justifications.

          The first justification is a free gift to all men--in His Atonement and Resurrection, and releases all men from the consequences of the Fall, as to eternal life, and provide the opportunity to inherit eternal life to all men. The second justification is where one is justified from the second death---where God applies His Blood to the forgiveness of our personal sins--through a walk in His Light.

          1 John 1:7 ---King James Version (KJV)
          7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
          Anyone care to address this?

          Comment

          Working...
          X