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Strawman-red herring-or lie from Mormon hierarchy

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  • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
    In Marvelous Work and A Wonder, Le Grand Richards Page 18 under the heading John’s Testimony of the Personality of God Says “This accords also with the report of John’s baptism of Jesus: 16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Here each of the three members of the Godhead are distinctly and separately mentioned; (1) Jesus coming up out of the water; (2) the Holy Ghost descending like a dove; (3) the voice of the Father from heaven expressing his love and approval of his beloved Son. How could one possibly believe these three to be one person without body or form?




    President Gordon B. Hinckley explained why he also could not believe in the Trinity: The world wrestles with the question of who God is, and in what form He is found. Some say that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one. I wonder how they ever arrive at that. How could Jesus have prayed to Himself when he uttered the Lord’s Prayer? How could He have net with Himself when He was on the Mount of Transfiguration? No. He is a separate being. God, our Father, is one. Jesus Christ is two. The Holy Ghost is three. And these three are united in purpose and in working together to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.’ ONE GOD The above comments are clearly antithetical



    James Talmage states: “This [the Trinity] cannot rationally be construed to mean that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are one in substance and person” (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.40)



    1. Hugh B. Brown, The Abundant Life, p.313 Surely this was not ventriloquism where Christ was speaking to and of himself. It was the Father introducing His Son. In this case, the members of the Holy Trinity manifested themselves, each in a different way, and each was distinct from the others. A similar event occurred on the Mount of Transfiguration when members of the Godhead were distinguished in the presence of Moses and Elias, and Peter, James, and John.



    What’s interesting about all these statements is that Le Grand Richards, Gordon B. Hinckley, James Talmage, Hugh B. Brown and other leaders like Robert Hales and Jeffrey R Holland lie about is the Orthodox view of the Godhead and pin modalism to Orthodox Christianity and our belief of the Trinity.

    When Christians teach the Godhead is ONE and persons is three separate persons. Jesus prayed to a separate person, God the Father .


    Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ]

    One being. Three persons. In other words, one "what" and three "who"s. There is one being, God. There are three persons: God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The distinction is between being and person. One being, three persons. One what, three who's.

    first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

    (from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

    E. Calvin Beisner
    God in Three Persons

    The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines:

    The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal

    When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.

    We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p 24

    “The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153

    If you notice the Traditional Christian Godhead is ONE GODHEAD represented by three separate persons

    while the Mormon godhead is one represented by three gods .

    "I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370)

    The Godhead consists of the three distinct personages and three gods.. The Father Son and Holy Spirit. The Father and Son have bodies of flesh and bones, while the Holy Spirit is a personage of spirit. Robert Millet A Different Jesus page 198

    The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

    Notice the Book of Mormon agrees with the tradition Christian view of ONE GOD in the GODHEAD


    2 Nephi 31:
    21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

    Alma 11:
    44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.


    Mormon 7:
    7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

    The Testimony of Three Witnesses
    And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
    Oliver Cowdery
    David Whitmer
    Martin Harris
    Has a Mormon ever produced a teaching from Tradition Christianity that teaches The Father and Son are the same person ? Not likely since we don't .
    And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
      In Marvelous Work and A Wonder, Le Grand Richards Page 18 under the heading John’s Testimony of the Personality of God Says “This accords also with the report of John’s baptism of Jesus: 16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Here each of the three members of the Godhead are distinctly and separately mentioned; (1) Jesus coming up out of the water; (2) the Holy Ghost descending like a dove; (3) the voice of the Father from heaven expressing his love and approval of his beloved Son. How could one possibly believe these three to be one person without body or form?




      President Gordon B. Hinckley explained why he also could not believe in the Trinity: The world wrestles with the question of who God is, and in what form He is found. Some say that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one. I wonder how they ever arrive at that. How could Jesus have prayed to Himself when he uttered the Lord’s Prayer? How could He have net with Himself when He was on the Mount of Transfiguration? No. He is a separate being. God, our Father, is one. Jesus Christ is two. The Holy Ghost is three. And these three are united in purpose and in working together to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.’ ONE GOD The above comments are clearly antithetical



      James Talmage states: “This [the Trinity] cannot rationally be construed to mean that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are one in substance and person” (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.40)



      1. Hugh B. Brown, The Abundant Life, p.313 Surely this was not ventriloquism where Christ was speaking to and of himself. It was the Father introducing His Son. In this case, the members of the Holy Trinity manifested themselves, each in a different way, and each was distinct from the others. A similar event occurred on the Mount of Transfiguration when members of the Godhead were distinguished in the presence of Moses and Elias, and Peter, James, and John.



      What’s interesting about all these statements is that Le Grand Richards, Gordon B. Hinckley, James Talmage, Hugh B. Brown and other leaders like Robert Hales and Jeffrey R Holland lie about is the Orthodox view of the Godhead and pin modalism to Orthodox Christianity and our belief of the Trinity.

      When Christians teach the Godhead is ONE and persons is three separate persons. Jesus prayed to a separate person, God the Father .


      Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ]

      One being. Three persons. In other words, one "what" and three "who"s. There is one being, God. There are three persons: God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The distinction is between being and person. One being, three persons. One what, three who's.

      first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

      (from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

      E. Calvin Beisner
      God in Three Persons

      The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines:

      The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal

      When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.

      We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p 24

      “The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153

      If you notice the Traditional Christian Godhead is ONE GODHEAD represented by three separate persons

      while the Mormon godhead is one represented by three gods .

      "I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370)

      The Godhead consists of the three distinct personages and three gods.. The Father Son and Holy Spirit. The Father and Son have bodies of flesh and bones, while the Holy Spirit is a personage of spirit. Robert Millet A Different Jesus page 198

      The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

      Notice the Book of Mormon agrees with the tradition Christian view of ONE GOD in the GODHEAD


      2 Nephi 31:
      21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

      Alma 11:
      44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.


      Mormon 7:
      7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

      The Testimony of Three Witnesses
      And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
      Oliver Cowdery
      David Whitmer
      Martin Harris
      Don't Mormon get tired of this Ad infinitum attack to the to the Ad nauseam
      And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

      Comment




      • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
        Don't Mormon get tired of this Ad infinitum attack to the to the Ad nauseam
        Seems the Mormons love giving misinformation they say Jesus did it by teaching Parables
        And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post



          Seems the Mormons love giving misinformation they say Jesus did it by teaching Parables
          When does the Book of Mormon ever agree with Mormonism ?
          Proves The Book of Mormon teaches Jesus is Creator and supreme being


          Helaman 14

          12 And also that ye might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming, to the intent that ye might believe on his name.


          Mosiah 4: 9 Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.
          And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
            When does the Book of Mormon ever agree with Mormonism ?
            Proves The Book of Mormon teaches Jesus is Creator and supreme being


            Helaman 14

            12 And also that ye might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming, to the intent that ye might believe on his name.


            Mosiah 4: 9 Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.

            The Book of Mormon is void of Mormonism
            And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post

              The Book of Mormon is void of Mormonism
              Completely Void
              And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
                Completely Void
                The Book of Mormon must have been written by Creedal Theologian or Professor who taught the Creeds, other than some human mistakes like confounding the persons "mixing the up"

                Luke 10:

                23 All things are delivered to me of my Father; and no man knoweth that the Son is the Father, and the Father is the Son, but him to whom the Son will reveal it. JST



                Mosiah 15

                3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—

                4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.



                Mosiah 16:

                15 Teach them that redemption cometh through Christ the Lord, who is the very Eternal Father. Amen.







                Alma 11:38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?





                Helaman 14:12 And also that ye might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming, to the intent that ye might believe on his name.



                Ether 3:14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.
                And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
                  In Marvelous Work and A Wonder, Le Grand Richards Page 18 under the heading John’s Testimony of the Personality of God Says “This accords also with the report of John’s baptism of Jesus: 16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Here each of the three members of the Godhead are distinctly and separately mentioned; (1) Jesus coming up out of the water; (2) the Holy Ghost descending like a dove; (3) the voice of the Father from heaven expressing his love and approval of his beloved Son. How could one possibly believe these three to be one person without body or form?




                  President Gordon B. Hinckley explained why he also could not believe in the Trinity: The world wrestles with the question of who God is, and in what form He is found. Some say that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one. I wonder how they ever arrive at that. How could Jesus have prayed to Himself when he uttered the Lord’s Prayer? How could He have net with Himself when He was on the Mount of Transfiguration? No. He is a separate being. God, our Father, is one. Jesus Christ is two. The Holy Ghost is three. And these three are united in purpose and in working together to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.’ ONE GOD The above comments are clearly antithetical



                  James Talmage states: “This [the Trinity] cannot rationally be construed to mean that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are one in substance and person” (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.40)



                  1. Hugh B. Brown, The Abundant Life, p.313 Surely this was not ventriloquism where Christ was speaking to and of himself. It was the Father introducing His Son. In this case, the members of the Holy Trinity manifested themselves, each in a different way, and each was distinct from the others. A similar event occurred on the Mount of Transfiguration when members of the Godhead were distinguished in the presence of Moses and Elias, and Peter, James, and John.



                  What’s interesting about all these statements is that Le Grand Richards, Gordon B. Hinckley, James Talmage, Hugh B. Brown and other leaders like Robert Hales and Jeffrey R Holland lie about is the Orthodox view of the Godhead and pin modalism to Orthodox Christianity and our belief of the Trinity.

                  When Christians teach the Godhead is ONE and persons is three separate persons. Jesus prayed to a separate person, God the Father .


                  Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ]

                  One being. Three persons. In other words, one "what" and three "who"s. There is one being, God. There are three persons: God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The distinction is between being and person. One being, three persons. One what, three who's.

                  first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

                  (from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

                  E. Calvin Beisner
                  God in Three Persons

                  The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines:

                  The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal

                  When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.

                  We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p 24

                  “The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153

                  If you notice the Traditional Christian Godhead is ONE GODHEAD represented by three separate persons

                  while the Mormon godhead is one represented by three gods .

                  "I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370)

                  The Godhead consists of the three distinct personages and three gods.. The Father Son and Holy Spirit. The Father and Son have bodies of flesh and bones, while the Holy Spirit is a personage of spirit. Robert Millet A Different Jesus page 198

                  The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

                  Notice the Book of Mormon agrees with the tradition Christian view of ONE GOD in the GODHEAD


                  2 Nephi 31:
                  21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

                  Alma 11:
                  44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.


                  Mormon 7:
                  7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

                  The Testimony of Three Witnesses
                  And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
                  Oliver Cowdery
                  David Whitmer
                  Martin Harris
                  Most Mormon let me know we believe that Jesus and the Father are the same person and God has no body parts and passions from the teachings of the 4th and 5th century Creeds which is completely wrong
                  And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
                    In Marvelous Work and A Wonder, Le Grand Richards Page 18 under the heading John’s Testimony of the Personality of God Says “This accords also with the report of John’s baptism of Jesus: 16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Here each of the three members of the Godhead are distinctly and separately mentioned; (1) Jesus coming up out of the water; (2) the Holy Ghost descending like a dove; (3) the voice of the Father from heaven expressing his love and approval of his beloved Son. How could one possibly believe these three to be one person without body or form?




                    President Gordon B. Hinckley explained why he also could not believe in the Trinity: The world wrestles with the question of who God is, and in what form He is found. Some say that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one. I wonder how they ever arrive at that. How could Jesus have prayed to Himself when he uttered the Lord’s Prayer? How could He have net with Himself when He was on the Mount of Transfiguration? No. He is a separate being. God, our Father, is one. Jesus Christ is two. The Holy Ghost is three. And these three are united in purpose and in working together to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.’ ONE GOD The above comments are clearly antithetical



                    James Talmage states: “This [the Trinity] cannot rationally be construed to mean that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are one in substance and person” (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.40)



                    1. Hugh B. Brown, The Abundant Life, p.313 Surely this was not ventriloquism where Christ was speaking to and of himself. It was the Father introducing His Son. In this case, the members of the Holy Trinity manifested themselves, each in a different way, and each was distinct from the others. A similar event occurred on the Mount of Transfiguration when members of the Godhead were distinguished in the presence of Moses and Elias, and Peter, James, and John.



                    What’s interesting about all these statements is that Le Grand Richards, Gordon B. Hinckley, James Talmage, Hugh B. Brown and other leaders like Robert Hales and Jeffrey R Holland lie about is the Orthodox view of the Godhead and pin modalism to Orthodox Christianity and our belief of the Trinity.

                    When Christians teach the Godhead is ONE and persons is three separate persons. Jesus prayed to a separate person, God the Father .


                    Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ]

                    One being. Three persons. In other words, one "what" and three "who"s. There is one being, God. There are three persons: God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The distinction is between being and person. One being, three persons. One what, three who's.

                    first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

                    (from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

                    E. Calvin Beisner
                    God in Three Persons

                    The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines:

                    The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal

                    When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.

                    We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p 24

                    “The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153

                    If you notice the Traditional Christian Godhead is ONE GODHEAD represented by three separate persons

                    while the Mormon godhead is one represented by three gods .

                    "I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370)

                    The Godhead consists of the three distinct personages and three gods.. The Father Son and Holy Spirit. The Father and Son have bodies of flesh and bones, while the Holy Spirit is a personage of spirit. Robert Millet A Different Jesus page 198

                    The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

                    Notice the Book of Mormon agrees with the tradition Christian view of ONE GOD in the GODHEAD


                    2 Nephi 31:
                    21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

                    Alma 11:
                    44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.


                    Mormon 7:
                    7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

                    The Testimony of Three Witnesses
                    And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
                    Oliver Cowdery
                    David Whitmer
                    Martin Harris
                    Clear example of misinformation

                    The Mormons do get there information about Traditional Christianity from there own blind guides who completely lie about OUR belief's "eg" Jeffrey R Holland, who in his talk said approximately 5 things that were misinformation .

                    1. We believe God the Father and Jesus are the same person.
                    2. When Jesus said "The Father was greater than I" that was a direct contradiction of The Creeds
                    3. When the Creeds say The Godhead is incomprehensive that is false
                    3. The Monk said
                    “Woe is me! They have taken my God away from me, … and I know not whom to adore or to address.” that wasn't really a Christian Monk but a heretic
                    4. The 4th and 5th century Creeds teach " God has not body, parts and passions" nothing in these Creeds teach that
                    5. The 4th and 5th century Creeds teach
                    the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to be abstract, absolute, transcendent," which is not true.

                    not one of the words in blue in the Creeds


                    https://www.lds.org/ensign/2007/11/t...-sent?lang=eng
                    And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post

                      Clear example of misinformation

                      The Mormons do get there information about Traditional Christianity from there own blind guides who completely lie about OUR belief's "eg" Jeffrey R Holland, who in his talk said approximately 5 things that were misinformation .

                      1. We believe God the Father and Jesus are the same person.
                      2. When Jesus said "The Father was greater than I" that was a direct contradiction of The Creeds
                      3. When the Creeds say The Godhead is incomprehensive that is false
                      3. The Monk said
                      “Woe is me! They have taken my God away from me, … and I know not whom to adore or to address.” that wasn't really a Christian Monk but a heretic
                      4. The 4th and 5th century Creeds teach " God has not body, parts and passions" nothing in these Creeds teach that
                      5. The 4th and 5th century Creeds teach
                      the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to be abstract, absolute, transcendent," which is not true.

                      not one of the words in blue in the Creeds


                      https://www.lds.org/ensign/2007/11/t...-sent?lang=eng
                      Pure misinformation from Jeffrey R Holland - two separate Christian explain his lies


                      http://capro.info/lds-general-author...oint-rebuttal/


                      http://www.courageouschristiansunite...ristians-43788
                      And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post

                        Pure misinformation from Jeffrey R Holland - two separate Christian explain his lies


                        http://capro.info/lds-general-author...oint-rebuttal/


                        http://www.courageouschristiansunite...ristians-43788
                        Our Relationship with God
                        Now, it is no secret that many false and vain and foolish things are being taught in the sectarian world and even among us about our need to gain a special relationship with the Lord Jesus. I shall summarize the true doctrine in this field and invite erring teachers and beguiled students to repent and believe the accepted gospel verities as I shall set them forth.

                        We worship the Father and him only and no one else.
                        We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense—the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.

                        Interesting that Mormon leader tells us not to worship Jesus yet Book of Mormon tells us to Worship Jesus. He also commands the students at BYU not to have a personal relationship with Jesus. The Bible tells us he must be a blind guide

                        1 Nephi 11: 24 And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked, and I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I saw many fall down at his feet and worship him.

                        3 Nephi 11: 17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.

                        https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce...tionship-lord/
                        And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post

                          Our Relationship with God
                          Now, it is no secret that many false and vain and foolish things are being taught in the sectarian world and even among us about our need to gain a special relationship with the Lord Jesus. I shall summarize the true doctrine in this field and invite erring teachers and beguiled students to repent and believe the accepted gospel verities as I shall set them forth.

                          We worship the Father and him only and no one else.
                          We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense—the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.

                          Interesting that Mormon leader tells us not to worship Jesus yet Book of Mormon tells us to Worship Jesus. He also commands the students at BYU not to have a personal relationship with Jesus. The Bible tells us he must be a blind guide

                          1 Nephi 11: 24 And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked, and I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I saw many fall down at his feet and worship him.

                          3 Nephi 11: 17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.

                          https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce...tionship-lord/
                          Why do Mormon leaders contradict the teachings found in the Book of Mormon
                          And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
                            Why do Mormon leaders contradict the teachings found in the Book of Mormon

                            The main reason is the fact the Book of Mormon has no Mormonism in it ...
                            And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post

                              The main reason is the fact the Book of Mormon has no Mormonism in it ...
                              1. "[Jesus] tilted His head back, pulled up one last time to draw breath and cried, 'Tetelestai!' It was a Greek expression most everyone present would have understood. It was an accounting term. Archaeologists have found papyrus tax receipts with 'Tetelestai' written across them, meaning 'paid in full.' With Jesus' last breath on the cross, He declared the debt of sin cancelled, completely satisfied. Nothing else required. Not good deeds. Not generous donations. Not penance or confession or baptism or...or...or...nothing. The penalty for sin is death, and we were all born hopelessly in debt. He paid our debt in full by giving His life so that we might live forever."
                                — Charles R. Swindoll
                              And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
                                1. "[Jesus] tilted His head back, pulled up one last time to draw breath and cried, 'Tetelestai!' It was a Greek expression most everyone present would have understood. It was an accounting term. Archaeologists have found papyrus tax receipts with 'Tetelestai' written across them, meaning 'paid in full.' With Jesus' last breath on the cross, He declared the debt of sin cancelled, completely satisfied. Nothing else required. Not good deeds. Not generous donations. Not penance or confession or baptism or...or...or...nothing. The penalty for sin is death, and we were all born hopelessly in debt. He paid our debt in full by giving His life so that we might live forever."
                                  — Charles R. Swindoll
                                The Bible is where TRUTH about GOD is found
                                And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

                                Comment

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