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Two Videos that solidifies the Three in One and puts oneness to rest.

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  • Two Videos that solidifies the Three in One and puts oneness to rest.

    The Trinity in the OT (14 mins)
    https://youtu.be/BNt5NKSse0Y

    The Trinity in the NT (10 mins)
    https://youtu.be/OaXjVU05odE
    Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.' Winston, 1984, George Orwell,

  • #2
    There is no Trinity in the OT. Its not even possible.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by davidbrainerd View Post
      There is no Trinity in the OT. Its not even possible.
      Someone clearly watched the video(sarcasm). Scripture does not lie, scripture cannot be undone.
      Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.' Winston, 1984, George Orwell,

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TrueBlue? View Post
        The Trinity in the OT (14 mins)
        https://youtu.be/BNt5NKSse0Y

        The Trinity in the NT (10 mins)
        https://youtu.be/OaXjVU05odE
        O my. So sad that you are taken in by this. Where to start? The video is a crafty delusion and twisting of the scripture. Perhaps you would like to bring out what you view as his strongest point and I'll show you why he is in error.

        Also, it doesn't really sound like you understand Oneness.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TrueBlue? View Post
          Scripture does not lie, scripture cannot be undone.
          Then the OT god is not a Trinity because he plainly says he is not.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by davidbrainerd View Post

            Then the OT god is not a Trinity because he plainly says he is not.
            The videos are pretty clear. I didn't realize one verse cancels out others in the Bible. That makes the Bible a very unrealiable source.
            Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.' Winston, 1984, George Orwell,

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Neal View Post

              O my. So sad that you are taken in by this. Where to start? The video is a crafty delusion and twisting of the scripture. Perhaps you would like to bring out what you view as his strongest point and I'll show you why he is in error.

              Also, it doesn't really sound like you understand Oneness.
              You are more than welcome to begin to tell me which part of the BIblical text is incorrect?
              Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.' Winston, 1984, George Orwell,

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TrueBlue? View Post

                You are more than welcome to begin to tell me which part of the BIblical text is incorrect?
                Why, do you think some parts of the Bible are incorrect? I think ALL the Biblical text is correct. The problem is how your video teachers twist the scriptures by cherry picking the scripture they want and ignoring others, putting their personal spin on it to conform to their tradition rather than letting the scripture guide.

                Pretty much everything they said in support of the Trinity was forced into a false narrative. Very deceptive. The problem is I simply don't have time to point out what's wrong with what they said because so much is in error. That's why I suggested for you to single out an area of support that you think is strongest and we can discuss it specifically and accurately according to the scripture. Are you up to it?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Neal View Post

                  Why, do you think some parts of the Bible are incorrect? I think ALL the Biblical text is correct. The problem is how your video teachers twist the scriptures by cherry picking the scripture they want and ignoring others, putting their personal spin on it to conform to their tradition rather than letting the scripture guide.

                  Pretty much everything they said in support of the Trinity was forced into a false narrative. Very deceptive. The problem is I simply don't have time to point out what's wrong with what they said because so much is in error. That's why I suggested for you to single out an area of support that you think is strongest and we can discuss it specifically and accurately according to the scripture. Are you up to it?
                  I am still waiting for you to support your claims. All you have done is make accusations, and done nothing to back them up.
                  Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.' Winston, 1984, George Orwell,

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TrueBlue? View Post

                    I am still waiting for you to support your claims. All you have done is make accusations, and done nothing to back them up.
                    Just give me one topic and we'll begin.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Neal View Post

                      Just give me one topic and we'll begin.
                      Here. Begin.
                      Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.' Winston, 1984, George Orwell,

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TrueBlue? View Post

                        Here. Begin.
                        I'm inferring from your response that you listened to a couple videos and that is the extent of most of your Biblical knowledge here. I'm sorry. When I was a new Christian 35 years ago, I wasn't aware of how false teachers twist and cherry pick scripture to their own agenda. Clearly this is what the video teacher is doing.

                        Since you refuse to cooperate with my request to give me something specific, I'll just start with where the video teacher starts - Deuteronomy 6:4 and the Hebrew word Echad which means "one".

                        While they acknowledge that the word Echad means "one" like we use the word "one" in English they are teaching that Deuteronomy 6:4 means God is a unity like Adam and Eve are one (echad) flesh in Genesis 2:24 rather than absolutely one. To take a direct quote from the video at 2:39 minutes "In fact there is not a single verse anywhere in the Bible that clearly or directly states that God is an absolute unity".

                        I think some Trinitarians may take issue with his use of the word "unity" here, but let me get to my main point.

                        Whether Echad means an absolute one in number or a compound unity in the OT depends on the context. Just as we know from the context of the English word "one" about whether it means absolutely one in number or a unity such as Adam and Eve in Genesis 2:24. It's clear from Genesis 2:4 that Adam and Eve are two persons or beings and the unity here is regarding their union as husband and wife. If Adam and Eve were gods, then this would be polytheism. Many Trinitarians use the unity of Adam and Eve to illustrate the unity of the triune God, but this analogy is totally polytheistic in its implications.

                        So, the video teaches analogy to Adam and Eve in reference to the LORD as Echad is inferring polytheism since Adam and Eve are two beings. Of course that is denied, but the denial is weak.

                        Read the context of the entire chapter of Deuteronomy 6:4.

                        I've counted the SINGULAR PRONOUNS referring to the LORD in this chapter as this:

                        HIS - 8 times
                        Him - 2 times
                        He - 8 times
                        Total of 18 singular pronouns referring to the One LORD of Deuteronomy 6.

                        Here is the number of plural pronouns referring to the LORD in this chapter:

                        Them, they, us, we, etc: 0 times
                        Total of 0 plural pronouns referring to the One LORD of Deuteronomy 6.

                        You're being lied to by this video teacher.


                        Here is a link that gives a complete breakdown on the word Echad and how it is used in the first five books of the OT - the books of Moses. http://halfshekel.com/echad/index.html

                        Echad as a union - 0.8%
                        Echad as a quantity - 93%
                        Echad as an ordinal - 6.2%


                        To put the usage of Echad in perspective, less than 1% of the time does it refer to a unity. That's 1 time in Genesis (Adam and Eve) and 2 times in Exodus.

                        There is nothing in Deuteronomy 6 that would suggest we understand Echad as a unity.

                        Now for the kicker. Less than 3 minutes into the video he tells an outright lie. He took 2.5 minutes to slowly bait you with a distorted view of Echad and then he drops the bomb...

                        "In fact there is not a single verse anywhere in the Bible that clearly or directly states that God is an absolute unity".

                        Here are just a sample of scriptures that refute this:

                        2 Kings 19:19 Now, LORD our God, deliver us from his hand, so that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you alone, LORD, are God."

                        Psalm 86:10 For you are great and do marvelous deeds; you alone are God.

                        Isaiah 43:10-11 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

                        Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

                        Isaiah 44:8 8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

                        Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

                        Isaiah 45:21-22 21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

                        Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,


                        Repeated phrases such as By myself, you alone, none else beside me, I AM and the thousands of SINGULAR pronouns in the OT referring to God disagree with the video teacher.

                        So, I started the conversion. I'll count on you to stay on subject here.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Neal View Post

                          I'm inferring from your response that you listened to a couple videos and that is the extent of most of your Biblical knowledge here. I'm sorry. When I was a new Christian 35 years ago, I wasn't aware of how false teachers twist and cherry pick scripture to their own agenda. Clearly this is what the video teacher is doing.

                          Since you refuse to cooperate with my request to give me something specific, I'll just start with where the video teacher starts - Deuteronomy 6:4 and the Hebrew word Echad which means "one".

                          While they acknowledge that the word Echad means "one" like we use the word "one" in English they are teaching that Deuteronomy 6:4 means God is a unity like Adam and Eve are one (echad) flesh in Genesis 2:24 rather than absolutely one. To take a direct quote from the video at 2:39 minutes "In fact there is not a single verse anywhere in the Bible that clearly or directly states that God is an absolute unity".

                          I think some Trinitarians may take issue with his use of the word "unity" here, but let me get to my main point.

                          Whether Echad means an absolute one in number or a compound unity in the OT depends on the context. Just as we know from the context of the English word "one" about whether it means absolutely one in number or a unity such as Adam and Eve in Genesis 2:24. It's clear from Genesis 2:4 that Adam and Eve are two persons or beings and the unity here is regarding their union as husband and wife. If Adam and Eve were gods, then this would be polytheism. Many Trinitarians use the unity of Adam and Eve to illustrate the unity of the triune God, but this analogy is totally polytheistic in its implications.

                          So, the video teaches analogy to Adam and Eve in reference to the LORD as Echad is inferring polytheism since Adam and Eve are two beings. Of course that is denied, but the denial is weak.

                          Read the context of the entire chapter of Deuteronomy 6:4.

                          I've counted the SINGULAR PRONOUNS referring to the LORD in this chapter as this:

                          HIS - 8 times
                          Him - 2 times
                          He - 8 times
                          Total of 18 singular pronouns referring to the One LORD of Deuteronomy 6.

                          Here is the number of plural pronouns referring to the LORD in this chapter:

                          Them, they, us, we, etc: 0 times
                          Total of 0 plural pronouns referring to the One LORD of Deuteronomy 6.

                          You're being lied to by this video teacher.


                          Here is a link that gives a complete breakdown on the word Echad and how it is used in the first five books of the OT - the books of Moses. http://halfshekel.com/echad/index.html

                          Echad as a union - 0.8%
                          Echad as a quantity - 93%
                          Echad as an ordinal - 6.2%


                          To put the usage of Echad in perspective, less than 1% of the time does it refer to a unity. That's 1 time in Genesis (Adam and Eve) and 2 times in Exodus.

                          There is nothing in Deuteronomy 6 that would suggest we understand Echad as a unity.

                          Now for the kicker. Less than 3 minutes into the video he tells an outright lie. He took 2.5 minutes to slowly bait you with a distorted view of Echad and then he drops the bomb...

                          "In fact there is not a single verse anywhere in the Bible that clearly or directly states that God is an absolute unity".

                          Here are just a sample of scriptures that refute this:

                          2 Kings 19:19 Now, LORD our God, deliver us from his hand, so that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you alone, LORD, are God."

                          Psalm 86:10 For you are great and do marvelous deeds; you alone are God.

                          Isaiah 43:10-11 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

                          Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

                          Isaiah 44:8 8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

                          Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

                          Isaiah 45:21-22 21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

                          Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,


                          Repeated phrases such as By myself, you alone, none else beside me, I AM and the thousands of SINGULAR pronouns in the OT referring to God disagree with the video teacher.

                          So, I started the conversion. I'll count on you to stay on subject here.
                          Come on neal, why are you getting your shorts all up in a knot. Your the one that said there was errors in the presentation and he trueblue was being decieved and made the "assumption" of impunining his biblical knowledge. Then when he says show him some errors you say, "I don't have time?" You sure have time to post all kinds of threads on the Trinity board. Not only that but it was you who said there were errors so it is you that has to prove there are errors in the presentation.

                          How about this neal, let me pick a subject for you to disprove. Tell me who swore the oath to Abraham at Genesis 22:15-17 according to the context? It's a simple question, so how about it?

                          IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
                          james

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TrueBlue? View Post

                            Here. Begin.
                            Crickets from TrueBlue. Lots of thunder and no rain.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by james View Post

                              Come on neal, why are you getting your shorts all up in a knot. Your the one that said there was errors in the presentation and he trueblue was being decieved and made the "assumption" of impunining his biblical knowledge. Then when he says show him some errors you say, "I don't have time?" You sure have time to post all kinds of threads on the Trinity board. Not only that but it was you who said there were errors so it is you that has to prove there are errors in the presentation.

                              How about this neal, let me pick a subject for you to disprove. Tell me who swore the oath to Abraham at Genesis 22:15-17 according to the context? It's a simple question, so how about it?

                              IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
                              james
                              James, this is a continuing concern of yours. What I didn't have time for was to argue against every error on those videos. I still feel that way. I wanted him to give me his strongest point. Since TrueBlue refused I just went with the first point on the video.

                              Regarding your question, the one who swore to Abraham was God. The angel of the Lord is a theophany or a temporary manifestation of the LORD. I would like to discuss further. I think that this is a good example and reason why the early Christians who were Jewish didn't have a hard time with believing that Jesus was God and at the same time holding to the strict monotheism of the their Jewish heritage. In other words the Apostles and early Jewish Christians had a high Christology without the doctrine of the Trinity.

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