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Two Videos that solidifies the Three in One and puts oneness to rest.

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  • Two Videos that solidifies the Three in One and puts oneness to rest.

    The Trinity in the OT (14 mins)
    https://youtu.be/BNt5NKSse0Y

    The Trinity in the NT (10 mins)
    https://youtu.be/OaXjVU05odE

  • Truther
    replied
    Originally posted by TrueBlue? View Post
    The Trinity in the OT (14 mins)
    https://youtu.be/BNt5NKSse0Y

    The Trinity in the NT (10 mins)
    https://youtu.be/OaXjVU05odE
    Good thing trinity was video taped because it is not in the Bible.

    Leave a comment:


  • Justinus
    replied
    If the number of times God speaks in the plural in the OT is so limited, as one member here is suggesting, one should ask what would prompt such out-of-the-ordinary speech. It cannot be by caprice that God chooses to talk like this; there must be a profound reason.

    Put differently, if the plural pronouns in Genesis 1:26 are just an example of "plurality of majesty" (which is an anachronism, by the way), why doesn't God speak like this ALL the time in the OT? Why is it not written like the Qur'an, where Allah speaks in the plural ALL the time?

    The plural in Genesis is obtrusive and intentional. It's not by chance that this is used at the moment God makes man in His image. He's communicating a truth here. He is saying that there is more than one BEARER of the same image in the Godhead. It is the image born by the Father, by the Son, and by the Holy Spirit. It is the image after which we are made (i.e. we are not that image by nature; we are an imitation of it by God's grace). So it is perfectly possible for God to say to the Son and Spirit: "Let us [all three are involved in creation] make man in Our [because each possesses it] image."

    Leave a comment:


  • dannyfortruth
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr_Rusty_Bucket View Post



    Do you do debates? At the moment I am interested in debating a pro-tither, but after that the Son of God is he eternal or created might be an option.
    Yahuah becoming part of His own creation is the right option. There is no eternally begotten Son.

    Leave a comment:


  • dannyfortruth
    replied
    Originally posted by TrueBlue? View Post


    What does that have to do with the fact that the Biblical text refers to the Lord by different names. Sometimes Angel, sometimes Captain, sometimes Counselor, sometimes Son of Man, sometimes Savior?
    My post was not about different names but the facts from scriptures that Yahuah spoke in the prophetic Spirit of Messiah which is applied to Himself in the OT.

    When you read about Yahuah, it's actually about The Messiah.

    The Son of Elohym is the spiritual seed and that's why He is the only begotten Son of Elohym. He is also known as The Firstborn of all creatures.

    Adam was created earthy and not heavenly. He prefigured The One that was to come (Spiritual Man/heavenly Man).


    Rom 8:3 For what was impossible under the Torah for the flesh to do, YAHUAH did in sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.

    The Son is the spiritual seed in likeness of Adam. He isn't 2nd person of Trinity.

    He came to convert the first earthy creation to spiritual creation in Himself:

    John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of Elohym, even to them that believe on his name:

    His Name is Yahusha which means Yahuah is salvation/Savior.

    Israel as a physical nation under The Law could not keep The Law because The Law is spiritual and as a nation(except the remnant) didn't understand that the goal of The Law is Yahuah Himself who is Isrel's LIFE:


    Deut 30:19 “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you and your seed,

    20 to love יהוה your Elohim, to obey His voice, and to cling to Him – for He is your life and the length of your days – to dwell in the land which יהוה swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Yaʽaqoḇ, to give.

    He gives them two option : Life and Death. But admonishes them to choose life.

    Hidden in Turah Is Yahuah Himself for He is The Life. The nation as an whole failed to find Yahuah Himself in The Turah:

    Rom 8:3 For the torah of the Spirit of the life in Messiah יהושע has set me free from the torah of sin and of death.

    It's the same Turah but working life in Messiah because Messiah is Israel's Life giver. If one doesn't find Yahuah, the Messiah in The Turah, it just remains outward show which couldn't save.

    If you understand this, then you will give up on the false doctrine of Trinity.

    Recap: Elohym as The Father is over physical Israel, the firstborn son in a figurative sense.

    The Son of Elohym, The Firstborn is the spiritual seed born of a woman born under the law to to give sonship to Israel (transforming Israel from physical to spiritual nation lifting it from the curse of the Law).

    Leave a comment:


  • dannyfortruth
    replied
    Originally posted by TrueBlue? View Post


    What does that have to do with the fact that the Biblical text refers to the Lord by different names. Sometimes Angel, sometimes Captain, sometimes Counselor, sometimes Son of Man, sometimes Savior?
    Lord, captain, Son of Man, Savior are not names.

    Each have got specific roles for a particular time. But Yahuah is One. There is no Trinity anywhere in scriptures but just forced into scriptures by it's adherents.

    The Son of man/Adam is the title that Messiah takes because of the genealogy He was born in. The Son of Elohym is the spiritual seed of Elohym.

    Adam was created earthy and hence he wasn't spiritual but symbolically represented a spiritual seed.

    Leave a comment:


  • TrueBlue?
    replied
    Originally posted by TrueBlue? View Post


    You have demonstrated that angels can be Cherubim . Yet, The Lord has also been called Angel. For we all know that the Lord alone may redeem one from their sins.

    NKJ Genesis 48:16 The Angel who has redeemed me from all evil, Bless the lads; Let my name be named upon them, And the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; And let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth." (Gen. 48:16 NKJ)

    Unless you know of other beings that can redeem one from sins, I only know of one.
    Originally posted by dannyfortruth View Post

    That's what you have been taught.

    Yahuah is The Redeemer of Israel:


    Isaiah 44:6 “Thus said יהוה, Sovereign of Yisra’ĕl, and his Redeemer, יהוה of hosts, ‘I am the First and I am the Last, besides Me there is no Elohim.

    H1350

    Original: גּאל

    Transliteration: gâ'al

    Phonetic: gaw-al'

    BDB Definition:
    1. to redeem, act as kinsman-redeemer, avenge, revenge, ransom, do the part of a kinsman
      1. (Qal)
        1. to act as kinsman, do the part of next of kin, act as kinsman-
    Yahuah spoke in the Spirit of Messiah until literally fullfilled by Him by manifesting in flesh.

    Heb 2:12 For both He who sets apart and those who are being set apart are all of One, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brothers,

    He took on the seed of Abraham and called all those born of Abraham(Israel) His brethren - kin.

    17 For, doubtless, He does not take hold of messengers, but He does take hold of the seed of Aḇraham.

    Till then He used Angelic beings because He is invisible. We have the testimony of this in NT. Why do you reject it in order to uphold your doctrine of Trinity?

    There is no Trinity anywhere in scriptures. NT is continuation of The OT.

    Christianity divorces itself from the Law and don't see the NT patterned after OT law (from physical to spiritual).

    The Angel of Yahuah (as rightly says Angel of and not Yahuah Himself). Yahuah used Cherubim to denote His presence and also to speak because He is invisible.

    Who is The Father? He is Elohym of Israel. And who is Israel? His firstborn son!

    Then who is The only begotten Son? As you can see, He is representation of Israel, the firstborn son.

    Since it's Israel, the firstborn son which needed redemption, Yahuah fullfilled the role of the firstborn son as The only begotten Son and also fullfilled it's OT sacrifices on altar.

    Israel failed the test in 40 years of wilderness journey while it's representation, The Son of Elohym fullfilled obedience in 40 days of wilderness testing.

    I'm not making this up but read Exod 4:22, Hos 11:1 and compare with Mat 2:15.

    Read the above three scriptures which shows The Son represented Israel as the firstborn son of Yahuah.

    Therefore, The Son is not the 2nd Person of Trinity.

    Deut 8:2 “And you shall remember that יהוה your Elohim led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you, prove you, to know what is in your heart, whether you guard His commands or not.

    3 “And He humbled you, and let you suffer hunger, and fed you with manna which you did not know nor did your fathers know, to make you know that man does not live by bread alone, but by every Word that comes from the mouth of יהוה.

    Compare:



    Mat 4:1 Then יהושע(Yahusha) was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tried by the devil.

    2 And after having fasted forty days and forty nights, He was hungry.

    3 And the trier came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of Elohim, command that these stones become bread.”

    4 But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of יהוה.

    The distinction we see in NT between The Father and The Son is not between two Persons of Trinity but rather between Elohym and Israel (whom The Son represented).

    Since Israel has Elohym as The Father, The Son who represented Israel too has Elohym as The Father:

    John 20:17 יהושע (Yahusha) said to her, “Do not hold on to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father. But go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My Elohim and your Elohim.’ ”





    What does that have to do with the fact that the Biblical text refers to the Lord by different names. Sometimes Angel, sometimes Captain, sometimes Counselor, sometimes Son of Man, sometimes Savior?

    Leave a comment:


  • dannyfortruth
    replied
    Originally posted by TrueBlue? View Post

    You have demonstrated that angels can be Cherubim . Yet, The Lord has also been called Angel. For we all know that the Lord alone may redeem one from their sins.

    NKJ Genesis 48:16 The Angel who has redeemed me from all evil, Bless the lads; Let my name be named upon them, And the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; And let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth." (Gen. 48:16 NKJ)

    Unless you know of other beings that can redeem one from sins, I only know of one.
    That's what you have been taught.

    Yahuah is The Redeemer of Israel:


    Isaiah 44:6 “Thus said יהוה, Sovereign of Yisra’ĕl, and his Redeemer, יהוה of hosts, ‘I am the First and I am the Last, besides Me there is no Elohim.

    H1350

    Original: גּאל

    Transliteration: gâ'al

    Phonetic: gaw-al'

    BDB Definition:
    1. to redeem, act as kinsman-redeemer, avenge, revenge, ransom, do the part of a kinsman
      1. (Qal)
        1. to act as kinsman, do the part of next of kin, act as kinsman-
    Yahuah spoke in the Spirit of Messiah until literally fullfilled by Him by manifesting in flesh.

    Heb 2:12 For both He who sets apart and those who are being set apart are all of One, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brothers,

    He took on the seed of Abraham and called all those born of Abraham(Israel) His brethren - kin.

    17 For, doubtless, He does not take hold of messengers, but He does take hold of the seed of Aḇraham.

    Till then He used Angelic beings because He is invisible. We have the testimony of this in NT. Why do you reject it in order to uphold your doctrine of Trinity?

    There is no Trinity anywhere in scriptures. NT is continuation of The OT.

    Christianity divorces itself from the Law and don't see the NT patterned after OT law (from physical to spiritual).

    The Angel of Yahuah (as rightly says Angel of and not Yahuah Himself). Yahuah used Cherubim to denote His presence and also to speak because He is invisible.

    Who is The Father? He is Elohym of Israel. And who is Israel? His firstborn son!

    Then who is The only begotten Son? As you can see, He is representation of Israel, the firstborn son.

    Since it's Israel, the firstborn son which needed redemption, Yahuah fullfilled the role of the firstborn son as The only begotten Son and also fullfilled it's OT sacrifices on altar.

    Israel failed the test in 40 years of wilderness journey while it's representation, The Son of Elohym fullfilled obedience in 40 days of wilderness testing.

    I'm not making this up but read Exod 4:22, Hos 11:1 and compare with Mat 2:15.

    Read the above three scriptures which shows The Son represented Israel as the firstborn son of Yahuah.

    Therefore, The Son is not the 2nd Person of Trinity.

    Deut 8:2 “And you shall remember that יהוה your Elohim led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you, prove you, to know what is in your heart, whether you guard His commands or not.

    3 “And He humbled you, and let you suffer hunger, and fed you with manna which you did not know nor did your fathers know, to make you know that man does not live by bread alone, but by every Word that comes from the mouth of יהוה.

    Compare:



    Mat 4:1 Then יהושע(Yahusha) was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tried by the devil.

    2 And after having fasted forty days and forty nights, He was hungry.

    3 And the trier came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of Elohim, command that these stones become bread.”

    4 But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of יהוה.

    The distinction we see in NT between The Father and The Son is not between two Persons of Trinity but rather between Elohym and Israel (whom The Son represented).

    Since Israel has Elohym as The Father, The Son who represented Israel too has Elohym as The Father:

    John 20:17 יהושע (Yahusha) said to her, “Do not hold on to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father. But go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My Elohim and your Elohim.’ ”






    Leave a comment:


  • TrueBlue?
    replied
    Originally posted by dannyfortruth View Post

    Messenger (Angel) of Elohym that appeared in OT are Cherubim.

    Psalms 18:9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.

    10And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.

    Cherubim were all over drawn in OT Temple including curtain/veil, on the ark of the covenant above the mercy seat, etc.

    Yahuah appeared using cherubim of glory. We have that record in NT:

    Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

    Acts 7: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

    Heb 2: 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

    The above are the three witnesses showing that The Angel/Messenger of Elohym was not The Son.

    Elohym who declared Himself as Yahuah through Angelic beings/cherubim and Father of Israel (firstborn son) is invisible.

    Exo 4:22 And you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus said יהוה, “Yisra’ĕl is My son, My first-born,


    You have demonstrated that angels can be Cherubim . Yet, The Lord has also been called Angel. For we all know that the Lord alone may redeem one from their sins.

    NKJ Genesis 48:16 The Angel who has redeemed me from all evil, Bless the lads; Let my name be named upon them, And the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; And let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth." (Gen. 48:16 NKJ)

    Unless you know of other beings that can redeem one from sins, I only know of one.

    Leave a comment:


  • dannyfortruth
    replied
    Originally posted by TrueBlue? View Post

    Nice and lengthy, but no worries I read it. Look, I acknowledge there are a some places that use the singular form when talking about God. I appreciate the couple of scriptures posted also, nice work. If the verses you posted were the only verses that existed when referring to God, I would be forced to accept your argument, but they aren't.



    Although I agree that the use of Echad is a weak, very weak, In fact personally I would never use it as an argument for the Trinity, I just don't think it's the correct argument. I don't believe you are putting the example of Adam and Eve in its proper context. It's just an example where the word is used to denote unity.


    Your condescension noted, I have read the bible and studied the Early Christian Fathers. In fact when I first watched the video I thought it was striking how about 50% of the OT video seemed pulled straight from Justyn Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho. Who makes many of the same arguments about the Angel of the Lord.

    Seeing as you took on the weakest of the arguments in the video, and frankly that is giving it too much credit, what do you think of the Angel of the Lord. I think the video does an ok job as to pointing out that Angel of the Lord is also God. I don't think they did very well showing the distinction between The Angel of the Lord(Jesus) and LORD(Father). The very name I think does enough to explain that. Angel(Messenger, Jesus,) of the LORD(Father). In the following two verses

    Exo 23:20 "Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared.
    Exo 23:21 Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.

    Clearly the LORD(Father) is directing Moses to follow the angel(Jesus). How do we know who this Angel is? Because Moses was to obey him, and the Angel had powers to forgive transgressions.
    Messenger (Angel) of Elohym that appeared in OT are Cherubim.

    Psalms 18:9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.

    10And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.

    Cherubim were all over drawn in OT Temple including curtain/veil, on the ark of the covenant above the mercy seat, etc.

    Yahuah appeared using cherubim of glory. We have that record in NT:

    Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

    Acts 7: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

    Heb 2: 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

    The above are the three witnesses showing that The Angel/Messenger of Elohym was not The Son.

    Elohym who declared Himself as Yahuah through Angelic beings/cherubim and Father of Israel (firstborn son) is invisible.

    Exo 4:22 And you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus said יהוה, “Yisra’ĕl is My son, My first-born,



    Last edited by dannyfortruth; 09-26-18, 05:01 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Neal
    replied
    Originally posted by TrueBlue? View Post
    The Trinity in the OT (14 mins)
    https://youtu.be/BNt5NKSse0Y

    The Trinity in the NT (10 mins)
    https://youtu.be/OaXjVU05odE
    A way seems so right to a man until he hears another view. These videos would make a scholarly Trinitarian ashamed. For example, the teaching about "Echad" used by novices to justify the Trinity is completely false. This doesn't even qualify as a weak argument, but a complete sham.

    Leave a comment:


  • TrueBlue?
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr_Rusty_Bucket View Post

    Thank you for these links, excellent videos, I learn't a lot and highly recommend them.
    Your welcome

    Leave a comment:


  • Neal
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr_Rusty_Bucket View Post



    Do you do debates? At the moment I am interested in debating a pro-tither, but after that the Son of God is he eternal or created might be an option.
    The flesh certainly loves to rationalize faithlessness and being lukewarm and disconnected from the body of Christ!

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr_Rusty_Bucket
    replied
    Originally posted by Puddin' View Post


    LOL - silly. See here for exegetical refutations: https://apostolicacademics.com/


    Do you do debates? At the moment I am interested in debating a pro-tither, but after that the Son of God is he eternal or created might be an option.

    Leave a comment:


  • Puddin'
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr_Rusty_Bucket View Post
    Thank you for these links, excellent videos, I learn't a lot and highly recommend them.

    LOL - silly. See here for exegetical refutations: https://apostolicacademics.com/

    Leave a comment:

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