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Moving the Needle in Oneness-Trinitarian Disucssion

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  • Moving the Needle in Oneness-Trinitarian Disucssion

    I've been paying attention to what is said between Oneness adherents and trinitarians for years, on this forum and elsewhere. I think a cordial and irenic debate might provide a suitable means to move the needle a bit on this discussion. If there is anyone willing, let's talk about how we could put together something, either in written or live form.

  • Truther
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael View Post
    I was under the impression that you apostatized.
    Are you trinitarian or oneness?

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael
    replied
    I was under the impression that you apostatized.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr_Rusty_Bucket
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael View Post
    I've been paying attention to what is said between Oneness adherents and trinitarians for years, on this forum and elsewhere. I think a cordial and irenic debate might provide a suitable means to move the needle a bit on this discussion. If there is anyone willing, let's talk about how we could put together something, either in written or live form.
    I've had a couple of debates, against JWs, Christadelphians, LDS and Oneness and would be interested in a YouTube debate, where a title is agreed and both parties then post short videos to their channels but also into a common playlist. My channel is Christian Comedy Channel and it has Oneness, JW, LDS and Debate playlists.

    Leave a comment:


  • mizpeh
    replied
    Originally posted by forever4truth View Post

    Yep, but I still hold the Oneness Pentecostalism's view on Acts 2:38 as the NT plan of salvation. I've found that my view best harmonizes with the Apostles' view of God and salvation in Acts.
    Me too.

    Well, I don't see this debate in the debate section. So I suppose something came up to derail it.

    Leave a comment:


  • forever4truth
    replied
    Originally posted by mizpeh View Post

    I wasn't sure what you had settled on. Biblical Unitarianism?
    Yep, but I still hold the Oneness Pentecostalism's view on Acts 2:38 as the NT plan of salvation. I've found that my view best harmonizes with the Apostles' view of God and salvation in Acts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Presentist
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael View Post

    Yes, I do have something else in mind. Namely, either a written or audio debate with an agreed upon thesis, equal time, cross-examination, etc. How's this for a thesis:
    "The Son of God was in relationship with his Father as a divine person before his birth in Bethlehem."

    In order to have a meaningful discussion, I have two suggestions...

    1.) Add a word to your thesis...
    "The Son of God was in relationship with his Father as a distinct divine person before his birth in Bethlehem."
    2.) Add an agreed upon definition for the word "person".

    Leave a comment:


  • mizpeh
    replied
    Originally posted by forever4truth View Post

    As a former Oneness Pentecostal, I'd be interested in this discussion, as well.
    I wasn't sure what you had settled on. Biblical Unitarianism?

    Leave a comment:


  • forever4truth
    replied
    Originally posted by mizpeh View Post
    Michael, would you consider discussing your thesis "The Son of God was in relationship with his Father as a divine person before his birth in Bethlehem."? I'm not interested in debates.
    As a former Oneness Pentecostal, I'd be interested in this discussion, as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • mizpeh
    replied
    Michael, would you consider discussing your thesis "The Son of God was in relationship with his Father as a divine person before his birth in Bethlehem."? I'm not interested in debates.

    Leave a comment:


  • Neal
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael View Post

    Yes, I do have something else in mind. Namely, either a written or audio debate with an agreed upon thesis, equal time, cross-examination, etc. How's this for a thesis:
    "The Son of God was in relationship with his Father as a divine person before his birth in Bethlehem."
    Crickets. No word from Michael.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheLayman
    replied
    Originally posted by all4Him View Post

    Greetings Mark, I pray your Christmas was wonderful. I'm very happy to read the good news about your CT scan and improved health! God is Good!
    Thanks Michael! I didn't answer you right away because this board is slow these days and it was really nice to see your name up there on top the last few days when I opened this page to see if there was anything of interest. I pray the Lord blesses you beyond your imagination this year for His glory. And thank you for your prayers...

    Mark a.k.a. TheLayman

    Leave a comment:


  • all4Him
    replied
    Originally posted by TheLayman View Post

    Thank you so much for the kind words and the Christmas blessing James, it truly means a great deal. I just finished another 6 month CT scan and met with the doctor last week, and my miracle continues as they still find no evidence or recurrence. I cannot tell you what a miracle this is but IT IS and it is the result of prayer! Thank you again very much.

    And you and yours be very Blessed this Christmas as we celebrate the entrance of our Lord, the Son of God, into our world to save us!

    Blessings,
    TheLayman a.k.a. Mark
    Greetings Mark, I pray your Christmas was wonderful. I'm very happy to read the good news about your CT scan and improved health! God is Good!

    Leave a comment:


  • TheLayman
    replied
    Originally posted by Neal View Post

    Ok Michael. I propose that we keep the format simple for now.

    Here is a basic outline as a suggestion to get started then:

    Introduction
    1. You state your position
    2. Next I'll state mine (not as a rebuttal)
    3. Your first rebuttal
    4. My rebuttal
    5. Your second rebuttal
    6. My second rebuttal
    7. Your closing argument
    8. My closing argument

    Sound good, or do you have something else in mind?
    This is not a format for "a debate," this is a format for having two concurrent debates, and it's exactly what is wrong with most of the debates you see online (and with the rules, or at least the explanation and understanding of them). When you state #1 and #2 as you did above, it basically has two affirmative arguments going on and then trying to rebut the others affirmative argument...that's a mess. A proper debate that has some hope of being educational to others should have a thesis/resolution stated as the affirmative and the other person/team will take the negative...so #2 above should necessarily be a rebuttal. The person/team with the affirmative must present evidence and affirmative arguments, the person/team taking the negative must find weaknesses in the evidence and/or arguments and present a counter argument to the evidence and arguments that have been proffered. Using the proposed thesis as an example, if the affirmative uses Phil. 2:5-8 as part or all of their evidence and presents an argument(s) based on that evidence/text, you must provide a counterargument based on that text. That might be by finding a fatal flaw in the exegesis of the affirmative and/or by presenting an alternative interpretation based on exegesis of the passage. But if a debate were graded, the affirmative argument would be graded as would the counterargument (which must directly address the argument presented).

    Here is a debate grading rubric and I for one wish that people would keep in mind how to properly score a debate when creating/explaining rules for one. If debates were actually graded in this manner I think the debates would be of much better quality and much more education for others.

    http://www.csun.edu/~ds56723/phil338/hout338rubric.htm

    TheLayman

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr_Rusty_Bucket
    replied
    Originally posted by Neal View Post

    I'll go for a written debate with your thesis. Let me know how you want to proceed.
    Would you also consider a video debate with me, we post alternate videos on the same title via our YouTube channels?

    Leave a comment:

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