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Both oneness AND trin are wrong, but oneness is better.

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  • Both oneness AND trin are wrong, but oneness is better.

    Oneness and trins are wrong because they both strip Jesus of his independence as a man and say "God became a man".

    However, oneness has pioneered the message of Jesus name baptism via Acts 2:38, etc. , so they are the go-to group for the plan of salvation.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Truther View Post
    Oneness and trins are wrong because they both strip Jesus of his independence as a man and say "God became a man".

    However, oneness has pioneered the message of Jesus name baptism via Acts 2:38, etc. , so they are the go-to group for the plan of salvation.
    You're idea that Jesus became God is total nonsense scripturally. He's always been God. God was manifested in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16; Philippians 2:6-10)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Neal View Post

      You're idea that Jesus became God is total nonsense scripturally. He's always been God. God was manifested in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16; Philippians 2:6-10)
      Neal, I respect you as a oneness theologian, but I would clobber you in a KJV debate regarding oneness.

      Same as trins. They would be clobbered with the same verses, but with a different direction of the KJV club I would use.



      Would you like to explain with scriptures the verses I would like to present?

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      • #4
        Right Neal, God was revealed inside Jesus, not God became flesh.

        If you don't believe me, them believe John 14:10....2 Cor 5:19, etc.


        God becoming flesh started in the 5th century of Christendom.....



        Hypostatic union (from the Greek: ὑπόστασις hypůstasis, "sediment, foundation, substance, subsistence") is a technical term in Christian theology employed in mainstream Christology to describe the union of Christ's humanity and divinity in one hypostasis, or individual existence.[3]

        The most basic explanation for the hypostatic union is Jesus Christ being both God, and man. It is both his divinity and his humanity.

        The First Council of Ephesus in 431 AD recognized this doctrine and affirmed its importance, stating that the humanity and divinity of Christ are made one according to nature and hypostasis in the Logos.
        Last edited by Truther; 02-07-18, 09:03 PM.

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        • #5
          Revelation 3:12 King James Version (KJV)

          12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.




          Now, any oneness or trin, please explain why Jesus said 4 times in this verse that he has a God, even as he was in heaven sitting on the throne as God?


          Please use a reference verse or 2.

          Thanks.

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          • #6
            Neal, per Phil 2, please describe what the form of the invisible, omnipresent God is.

            Thanks.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Truther View Post
              Revelation 3:12 King James Version (KJV)


              12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.




              Now, any oneness or trin, please explain why Jesus said 4 times in this verse that he has a God, even as he was in heaven sitting on the throne as God?


              Please use a reference verse or 2.

              Thanks.
              Not sure if you haven't read the many, many times when I said this, but I'll say it again. Jesus was a genuine man and he perceived as a genuine man. He wasn't God in a human shell looking out, but God became a man. It is in this frame of reference that Jesus said, he has a God.

              However, the same God who became man also remained as he has always been. Simultaneously God as He always has been and a man.

              You see, an honest Bible study can't cherry pick. You must accept and explain that Jesus said he was the first and last. A mere man only can't say that he is the first and last in any honest manner and we know Jesus wasn't a liar.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Truther View Post
                Neal, per Phil 2, please describe what the form of the invisible, omnipresent God is.

                Thanks.
                Form is Greek morphe, or the very nature of God. It means he existed as the very essence/nature of God. Paul makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ. Christ in you the hope of glory.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Neal View Post

                  Form is Greek morphe, or the very nature of God. It means he existed as the very essence/nature of God. Paul makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ. Christ in you the hope of glory.
                  So "form" in the 17th century English is not correct?

                  Why did the translators do that?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Neal View Post

                    Not sure if you haven't read the many, many times when I said this, but I'll say it again. Jesus was a genuine man and he perceived as a genuine man. He wasn't God in a human shell looking out, but God became a man. It is in this frame of reference that Jesus said, he has a God.

                    However, the same God who became man also remained as he has always been. Simultaneously God as He always has been and a man.

                    You see, an honest Bible study can't cherry pick. You must accept and explain that Jesus said he was the first and last. A mere man only can't say that he is the first and last in any honest manner and we know Jesus wasn't a liar.
                    Neal, a verse please.(an honest Bible study requires a verse for your explanation of Rev 3:12)

                    Rev 3:12 needs a long, drawn out, verse-less explanation.?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Neal, I heard all my life....Jesus was God, yet a man, he was God, yet a man.......



                      Then came this verse etc.....


                      John 4:24 King James Version (KJV)

                      24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



                      ....saith Jesus.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Truther View Post
                        Oneness and trins are wrong because they both strip Jesus of his independence as a man and say "God became a man".

                        However, oneness has pioneered the message of Jesus name baptism via Acts 2:38, etc. , so they are the go-to group for the plan of salvation.
                        Since they pronounce 'jeezus' over their baptisms, but His REAL NAME is not that, but is more likely pronounced 'Y'shua' or "Iesous' or 'Yaysoos,, they aren't even CLOSE if that word 'formula' MUST BE USED.

                        His Name is Iesous in the original-language Greek texts. His MOTHER likely called Him "Y'shua," the Hebrew.
                        Last edited by Morefish; 02-12-18, 11:58 AM.
                        God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

                        I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Morefish View Post

                          Since they pronounce 'jeezus' over their baptisms, but His REAL NAME is not that, but is more likely pronounced 'Y'shua' or "Iesous' or 'Yaysoos,, they aren't even CLOSE if that word 'formula' MUST BE USED.

                          His Name is Iesous in the original-language Greek texts. His MOTHER likely called Him "Y'shua," the Hebrew.
                          At least is sounds like Iesous, right?

                          Do the titles sound anything like Iesous?

                          When someone says "I baptize you in the name of the son", does that sound like Iesous?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Truther View Post

                            At least is sounds like Iesous, right?

                            Do the titles sound anything like Iesous?

                            When someone says "I baptize you in the name of the son", does that sound like Iesous?
                            Now English sound-alikes' count? I don't THINK SO.

                            Oneness folks think they are pronouncing the NAME of Jeezus, and that NOTHING ELSE is 'it.'

                            Of course, the CONTEXT of what YOU and the oneness dolts think are just 'titles' are what JESUS SAID TO DO in Matthew 28.

                            Sorry, but 'to' does NOT MEAN THE SAME THING as 'two.' They may 'sound the same,' but they are not. Just like 'jeezus' and 'Iesous.' They are different.

                            Your theory is flushed down the toilet with the rest of the oneness dung. Sorry 'bout that. BTW we don't say 'we baptize you in the name of the son. We say 'in the Name of the FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT.' Just so you know. It is ONLY by the authority of Jesus Christ that we baptize. I don't know WHO you think YOU baptize in the authority of.
                            God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

                            I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Morefish View Post

                              Now English sound-alikes' count? I don't THINK SO.

                              Oneness folks think they are pronouncing the NAME of Jeezus, and that NOTHING ELSE is 'it.'

                              Of course, the CONTEXT of what YOU and the oneness dolts think are just 'titles' are what JESUS SAID TO DO in Matthew 28.

                              Sorry, but 'to' does NOT MEAN THE SAME THING as 'two.' They may 'sound the same,' but they are not. Just like 'jeezus' and 'Iesous.' They are different.

                              Your theory is flushed down the toilet with the rest of the oneness dung. Sorry 'bout that. BTW we don't say 'we baptize you in the name of the son. We say 'in the Name of the FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT.' Just so you know. It is ONLY by the authority of Jesus Christ that we baptize. I don't know WHO you think YOU baptize in the authority of.
                              LOL - Imagine a "Trinitarian" talking about spiritual "dung"? ROTFLMHO! Silly tritheist.

                              You're in anti-biblical heresy so you certainly have no fictitious "authority" from Christ to baptize someone (ummm, you don't even understand what "the name...of the Son" is (). The only "authority" you have in Christ is to repent of your heresy & get saved.

                              Repent of your false doctrine & obey Acts 2.38/Mark 12.29/Col. 2.9 if you desire eternal life. Now, see how easy that was ?

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