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The Logos as the Divine Expression

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  • #16
    Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

    Would you agree that your belief is Biblical Unitarianism, i.e. that Jesus did not exist prior to being born of Mary except as the plan, the purpose and the wisdom of God?


    Holly
    Jesus is the Logos made flesh therefore he has always existed but not as a son of man but as God. The Logos was God! Refer to John 17:5.

    God bless you,

    SeventhDay

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

      Jesus is the Logos made flesh therefore he has always existed but not as a son of man but as God. The Logos was God! Refer to John 17:5.

      God bless you,

      SeventhDay
      John 17:5 indicates Jesus had a personal, conscious existence with the Father before being born of Mary.


      Holly
      Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heartís desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about Godís righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

        John 17:5 indicates Jesus had a personal, conscious existence with the Father before being born of Mary.


        Holly
        It indicates to me that Jesus is the Father that he is praying too! The glory he had with the Father was the Father himself!

        Jesus has to be the Father because the Son of God is not immortal but died but he did rise again!


        1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

        1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

        1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
        Only God is King of Kings and that is Jesus!

        Only God is Lord of Lords and that is Jesus!

        Only God has immortality and that is Jesus!

        Only God dwells in the light and that is Jesus.

        Thus, Jesus is not only the Son of God who is not immortal but the Father that is immortal!


        Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

        Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

        Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
        Jesus is the one body that is Christ and is God!

        Jesus is the one Spirit that is God!

        Jesus is the one that we put our faith in because Jesus is God who called us to himself!

        Jesus is the one whose name we are baptized in because Jesus is God!

        Jesus is the only one God!

        Jesus is the Father and is God!

        Jesus is the only one that is above all because Jesus is God!

        It is Jesus that is through all because Jesus is God!

        It is Jesus that is dwelling in us as the Spirit of Christ because Jesus is God!

        1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

        1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
        If we acknowledge the Son we have the Father because Jesus is God!

        1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

        1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
        Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and appeared to humanity because Jesus is God.

        Not only has Jesus appeared to us in the flesh he also spiritually indwells us because the Spirit of Christ is God!

        God bless you,

        SeventhDay
        Last edited by SeventhDay; 10-10-18, 11:21 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

          It indicates to me that Jesus is the Father that he is praying too! The glory he had with the Father was the Father himself!

          Jesus has to be the Father because the Son of God is not immortal but died but he did rise again!




          Only God is King of Kings and that is Jesus!

          Only God is Lord of Lords and that is Jesus!

          Only God has immortality and that is Jesus!

          Only God dwells in the light and that is Jesus.

          Thus, Jesus is not only the Son of God who is not immortal but the Father that is immortal!



          Jesus is the one body that is Christ and is God!

          Jesus is the one Spirit that is God!

          Jesus is the one that we put our faith in because Jesus is God who called us to himself!

          Jesus is the one whose name we are baptized in because Jesus is God!

          Jesus is the only one God!

          Jesus is the Father and is God!

          Jesus is the only one that is above all because Jesus is God!

          It is Jesus that is through all because Jesus is God!

          It is Jesus that is dwelling in us as the Spirit of Christ because Jesus is God!



          If we acknowledge the Son we have the Father because Jesus is God!



          Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and appeared to humanity because Jesus is God.

          Not only has Jesus appeared to us in the flesh he also spiritually indwells us because the Spirit of Christ is God!

          God bless you,

          SeventhDay
          As we discussed on another forum. John wrote 1:1 in such a way that shows a relationship between the Word and God as that of separate persons who are both God. Jesus spoke of his Father and he wasn't referring to Joseph. His disciples also recognized that God the Father was a separate person from God the Son.

          2 Peter 1:17-18 For when he [Jesus] received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, ďThis is my beloved Son,with whom I am well pleased,Ē we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.

          Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places.


          Holly
          Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heartís desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about Godís righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

            John 17:5 indicates Jesus had a personal, conscious existence with the Father before being born of Mary.


            Holly
            That's trinitarian understanding which is not correct. The world is in context of man:

            John 17:4 have glorified you on the earth: I have finished the work which you gave me to do.

            5 And now, O Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was.

            6 **\f2 \u1488?\u1514?} eth I have manifested your name unto the men which you gave me out of the world: yours they were, and you gave them me; and they have guarded **\f2 \u1488?\u1514?} eth-your word.

            There wasn't a Father or a Son in Genesis except as watermark of prophecy:


            Gen 1:26 And Elohim said, ďLet Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the livestock, and over all the earth and over all the creeping creatures that creep on the ground.Ē

            The 'US', 'OUR' - plural pronoun relates to prophetic of Yahuah manifesting in flesh in His own image and likeness - of which Adam was only a physical/natural/earthy type. It's not a plurality of persons as Trinity teaches but prophetic.

            The Father relates to The Son as Elohym and His Body as The Assembly - which Adam and Eve are a type/figurative of.

            John 17 is that fullfillment.

            There is no Trinity anywhere in scriptures as Yahuah is Echad.. The Father and Son are Echad.

            The first time He reveals Himself to be The Father when He declares Israel as His firstborn son - Exodus 4:22. Israel is The Assembly collective of the people of His kingdom.

            The only Son of Elohym, Yahusha collectively represents The Assembly. He is The Son over His own House. He collectively prays for The Assembly to The Father in John 17.
            Last edited by dannyfortruth; 10-12-18, 12:11 AM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

              It indicates to me that Jesus is the Father that he is praying too! The glory he had with the Father was the Father himself!

              Jesus has to be the Father because the Son of God is not immortal but died but he did rise again!
              That would contradict not only John 17:5, but also what Jesus says in John 8:17-18 ďIn your Law it is written that the testimony of two people is true. I am the one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.Ē
              Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heartís desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about Godís righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

                That would contradict not only John 17:5, but also what Jesus says in John 8:17-18 “In your Law it is written that the testimony of two people is true. I am the one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.”
                Can not discuss with you on this board. I have been suspended for doing this and I do not want to be suspended again.

                Start a topic on the general theology board and we can discuss this.

                God bless you,

                SeventhDay

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                  Can not discuss with you on this board. I have been suspended for doing this and I do not want to be suspended again.

                  Start a topic on the general theology board and we can discuss this.

                  God bless you,

                  SeventhDay
                  I don't know which forum you mean. Is it the Theology Questions forum?


                  Holly
                  Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heartís desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about Godís righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

                    I don't know which forum you mean. Is it the Theology Questions forum?


                    Holly
                    Yes, that will do fine!

                    Thanks!

                    God bless you,

                    SeventhDay

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                      Yes, that will do fine!

                      Thanks!

                      God bless you,

                      SeventhDay
                      I'm thinking maybe the Trinity forum would be better. Can we discuss your view there?


                      Holly
                      Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heartís desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about Godís righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

                        I'm thinking maybe the Trinity forum would be better. Can we discuss your view there?


                        Holly
                        Yes, that is fine.

                        God bless you,

                        SeventhDay

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                          Yes, that is fine.

                          God bless you,

                          SeventhDay
                          Done.
                          Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heartís desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about Godís righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

                            Done.
                            Great!

                            I like your discussions!

                            God bless you,

                            SeventhDay

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                              It indicates to me that Jesus is the Father that he is praying too! The glory he had with the Father was the Father himself!

                              Jesus has to be the Father because the Son of God is not immortal but died but he did rise again!




                              Only God is King of Kings and that is Jesus!

                              Only God is Lord of Lords and that is Jesus!

                              Only God has immortality and that is Jesus!

                              Only God dwells in the light and that is Jesus.

                              Thus, Jesus is not only the Son of God who is not immortal but the Father that is immortal!



                              Jesus is the one body that is Christ and is God!

                              Jesus is the one Spirit that is God!

                              Jesus is the one that we put our faith in because Jesus is God who called us to himself!

                              Jesus is the one whose name we are baptized in because Jesus is God!

                              Jesus is the only one God!

                              Jesus is the Father and is God!

                              Jesus is the only one that is above all because Jesus is God!

                              It is Jesus that is through all because Jesus is God!

                              It is Jesus that is dwelling in us as the Spirit of Christ because Jesus is God!



                              If we acknowledge the Son we have the Father because Jesus is God!



                              Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and appeared to humanity because Jesus is God.

                              Not only has Jesus appeared to us in the flesh he also spiritually indwells us because the Spirit of Christ is God!

                              God bless you,

                              SeventhDay
                              You still have one character feigning to communicate with a presumably distinct personality, but is really just sitting by himself having a conversation with himself, but maybe changing his voice to be one character to talk to the other one, neither of which are really real, but just roles for the sake of the narrative that he wants to create.

                              This would also imply that Jesus was a ventriloquist at his baptism and had a special effects team for the Holy Spirit descending like a dove. And it makes the John 17:5 and John 1:1b, the pros statements (with God, and with you), if not meaningless, deceptive description of the reality. It also implies Jesus being deceptive when telling the disciples to pray to the Father in heaven, while Jesus is still on earth. Jesus also always spoke of the Father as being presently in heaven while he and the disciples were on earth.

                              Absolutely nothing in scripture says that God is one person, but rather that he exists as a unified entity, which in no way disqualifies a triune unity. All of scripture from Genesis to Revelation depicts the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit as distinct and separate entities.


                              Doug
                              Dare to be Gracious

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                                Sorry I am not well versed with Greek grammar or English grammar for that matter!
                                Then how can you argue your position if you can properly understand either language?

                                I believe the Son of God was the Father in the beginning and since Jesus is God then Jesus is the Father!
                                But it is a belief in unicorns, for there is no credible evidence to support your belief; just a twisted, narrow, definition of a single word (one) about the most complex and indescribable being in existence, namely God. If God was trying to say that he was the only person who is God, he would have said I am the only one who is God, but he didn't, he said "the Lord your God is one", not the only person, but one in unity of essence. It is not one is God, but God is one.



                                Thus, "glorify me with thy own self that I had with you before the world existed" is Jesus as the Son returning back to himself (The Father he is speaking to) yet retaining his role as the Son of God.

                                Understand that God as the divine expression does have roles or the Logos was not made flesh!

                                God bless you,

                                SeventhDay .

                                Here is the grammar issue again. "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." (John 17:5) παρὰ σεαυτῷ , with you, or in your presence, corresponds to the πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, with God, of John 1:1. But the John 17:5 is even stronger in its sense of spacial proximity one one person to another. It can mean nothing else.


                                Doug

                                Dare to be Gracious

                                Comment

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