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At my wits end with life

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  • At my wits end with life

    Hi all,

    I'm a 20 something man who is married with three children. My wife and I married young (I was 20, she 18) when she fell pregnant with our first child. My daughter followed in 2012 and my youngest in 2014. So we presently have three young children and in terms of material needs I want for nothing. My wife is well, I am well, and my children are well. I have an incredibly flexible and enjoyable job. And yet I am still consumed with self hatred and often think about killing myself. I also drink heavily (once every three nights on average) and will imbibe of any substance I can in the interim in an attempt to stifle the darkness.

    To frame this properly I need to describe the progression of my life up until this point. I grew up in a violent, alcoholic environment. I had very little parental input and was left to do whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. I was never encouraged to stick to anything and was allowed to quit school at a young age and so did absolutely nothing but while away my younger years in front of a computer day and night. I was never asked to lift a finger, or pursue employment. My parents were more interested in themselves and their vices.

    Despite this, I had developed a very strong faith in the Gospel. As a 16 year old I used to frequent this very site (10 odd years ago now) training myself in defense of the faith and trying to debate as many people as I could find in attempt to dispel their misconceptions. I wanted my friends and family to understand and accept Christ and spent a great deal of time concerning myself with this.

    Then, at 18 I met my wife who at the time was completely anti-christian. At the time I was going through a crisis of faith after debating some much older atheists and they'd raised certain arguments that disturbed me and left me shaken. In any other situation I would have not considered a union with this person because of her world view at the time.

    Anyway, in a short period of time after being exposed to my knowledge of the Bible she began to soften and ultimately accepted the Bible was true. Her transformation was remarkable - the kind of shift you hear people speak about with wonder. It was radical and almost overnight she developed a keen sense of conscience in relation to Gods word. Now I know her belief was far truer than mine had ever been, as mine was chiefly predicated on physical evidence while hers was based more in real faith. Mine was subject to falter because of this whereas hers was much stronger.

    Anyway, as the years progressed and with the associated stresses of child rearing and full time work, something broke in me recently. I've always been prone to extreme anxiety and bouts of depression on account of the trauma of my childhood and young adult life, but as I grew older and became more worn out by the daily grind I began pondering life and my purpose here. I began to think about the years ahead and saw no end to the struggle, no end to the lack of freedom I had wrought on myself. I wonder why people do this to themselves, why they so flippantly bring souls into this world who have to deal with fear and ponder questions of their own existence, perhaps even ultimately choosing wrongly and becoming unsaved. I feel extreme sorrow when I look at my children because while I love them with all my being, I feel extreme guilt for creating them and exposing them to this awful fallen world solely because I carelessly indulged in a biological urge to procreate.

    Furthermore, I recently truly realized how all those years in my room as a young man passively witnessing the violence of alcoholism had damaged me and I became consumed with anger and bitterness at the perceived failure of my parents. I realized how terrible a husband I had been to my wife all this time and how bare minimum a father I've been to my children - an emotionally unavailable, ever irritable, forever selfish, intellectual bully of a man. I steadily grew more cynical and angry, wondering what the point of all of this is, and what the point of my life was if I'm a broken person who will only continue to distress those in my immediate sphere of influence. Most of all however I hate myself for my perceived failures - not only in being a sufficient father and husband, but by failing certain goals I wanted to achieve for my own individual satisfaction - and I exhibit this distress by lashing out at those closest to me.

    Ultimately I began to seriously question the logic behind the Bible and allowed myself to consider for the first time that it might not be true. The fear that accompanies this kind of opening up is staggering when one has never truly considered it in all their life - all of a sudden there is no hope, no rhyme or reason behind anything. And yet I find I can no longer entirely accept Christianity because I cannot intellectually accept that God would create us with a predestined place in either heaven or hell.

    I cannot understand the so called 'joy' of other Christians when the reality is that God 'picked' them for belief before creation and before time on NO MERIT of their own. Every human being ever allowed to exist by God is no more deserving of heaven or hell than the other. Yet if the Bible is to be believed, God in his omniscience knows precisely who is saved and who is doomed. How can I act as though the unsaved are foolish and that they 'deserve their lot in hell' when the reality is that my ability to understand and accept the Gospel was essentially gifted to me. How can I have any joy knowing that my mother for example is probably going to hell and that this was always going to be the case? Why does the Bible simultaneously use language that implies our choice to accept Christ is ours while, at the same time, clearly teaching that we were predestined and that we're the potter's clay in Romans?

    The most confusing aspect of all of this is that there was never any NEED for things to be this way. God is all powerful, not contingent on anything. Yet he purportedly created us and this world for 'his glory'. Whether or not this was necessary we'll never know because I suppose that in the face of God, we have no right to determine what is necessary or not. And yet he apparently created us in his image, with some of his attributes, and communicates certain moral aspects to us through the Bible - yet it is through these moral aspects and this moral soul he has given me that I arrive at these questions. The concept of justice comes from God, yet how is any justice done when so called sinners suffer eternally when they never had a real choice to begin with? Justice is served when an individual who knowingly and willing commits wrong is punished accordingly. But if someone is pre-destined to reject Christ how is punishing them with hell just? How is it just that God created billions as hell fodder just to create this juxtaposition.

    I simply cannot reconcile this no matter how hard I try and it is sentiments like these that disillusioned me almost 10 years ago. I want to believe and for it to be iron clad so I can have hope, but it no longer makes any sense to me how anyone can adhere to this particular line of thinking. I'm suddenly beginning to understand the vitriol of those militant atheists so many years ago. At the time I didn't understand their disgust, and yet now I'm starting to glean understanding.

    Anyway, in my mind the only alternative is to try and face the bitterness of this existence. I read news articles seeing people moan and gripe about all this minutiae - worrying about their careers, worrying about what other people think of them, worrying about suits and ties and corporate etiquette, worrying about this life of transience and nonsense. Being so wrapped up and consumed in it. Everything now seems trivial to me and with such a cynical outlook and no hope, and with a wife who has tonight taken the reigns and announced that we're separating, I feel dead end and that my value in this life has run its course. I have nothing to offer anyone. If anything I owe it to those three precious souls I so haphazardly created in ignorance, but beyond that I have no real purpose in carrying on despite a desire to fulfill some transient worldly pursuits that will be of no comfort to me on my deathbed anyway.

    FYI, I'm drunk right now so I apologize if this seems disjointed and tangential. Has anyone got any ideas for a wretched soul like myself, sewn on the edit soil?
    Last edited by CARM Admin; 12-28-16, 05:26 PM. Reason: language edited

  • #2
    Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
    I cannot understand the so called 'joy' of other Christians when the reality is that God 'picked' them for belief before creation and before time on NO MERIT of their own.
    God picks everyone. Some respond.

    See:

    Predestination and Will: How are predestination and election connected with foreknowledge?

    Does God Elect Everyone?

    "Being a square keeps you from going around in circles." ~ J. Vernon McGee
    Ro 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:13

    Comment


    • #3
      This stood out to me;

      "God enables men to respond in faith because he is merciful. Men cannot take credit for a right response because God himself enables them to respond rightly to him (2 Ti 2:25). God gets the glory."

      Some people respond because God enables them to do so. This ability cannot be reached without some kind of intervention or predisposing by God. Am I misunderstanding this?

      I read both documents you linked to and while I can see what the author is trying to stay, I feel that their attempt at explaining the concepts of election and predestination are insufficient.

      The author raises all the core issues I have - namely, that the Bible and all of its core teachings make no sense if straight up Calvinist predestination doctrine is true. And yet predestination seems like an unavoidable fact. Even if the Bible doesn't describe pre-destination in the exact terms I do, Gods omniscience essentially makes it fact. He knew, and he knows. Is that not the case? Even if God isn't actively guiding people to accept or reject him, the very fact of his knowledge of who will come and who will go raises the question of why he had to go and create this situation in the first place.

      People can say that Adam and Eve 'chose for themselves' by disobeying God and bringing Sin down on the world, but if at any point God knew what would happen in advance (which he apparently did as his whole redemptive plan in Christ was known before time), then everything is essentially on rails and I return to my original point that God created this world knowing it would fall and that ultimately billions would reject him, thus attaining the worst reality possible (eternal hell). And what it all boils down to is that God did this for his glory, which is ultimately an arbitrary concept none of us can truly understand. Yet we are all expected to accept that this is the answer and that this should satisfy the question.

      Either pre-destination is truly a false doctrine, or it is true and people force themselves to look past it because it is truly an awful thing to believe.

      That said, it may be that I mis-read something in the links you posted or overlooked something. Are you able to directly address my concern?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        This stood out to me;

        "God enables men to respond in faith because he is merciful. Men cannot take credit for a right response because God himself enables them to respond rightly to him (2 Ti 2:25). God gets the glory."

        Some people respond because God enables them to do so.
        He would enable all men to do so if they were willing. He doesn’t have some special elite club. Calvinists who teach that you will notice always happen to be in the club.

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        This ability cannot be reached without some kind of intervention or predisposing by God. Am I misunderstanding this?
        That'’s true. He is available to all; but, few respond (Mt 7:14).

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        I read both documents you linked to and while I can see what the author…
        That’'s me.

        Sidebar: Moderators have wrongfully accused me of plagiarism. They may want to get their facts straight before accusing others.

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        …is trying to stay, I feel that their attempt at explaining the concepts of election and predestination are insufficient.
        The teaching comes from Greek paganism—not the bible. Predestination is taught in scripture. The meaning one pours into the concept makes the difference.

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        The author raises all the core issues I have - namely, that the Bible and all of its core teachings make no sense if straight up Calvinist predestination doctrine is true.
        Both Calvinists and Armenians are wrong.

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        And yet predestination seems like an unavoidable fact. Even if the Bible doesn't describe pre-destination in the exact terms I do, Gods omniscience essentially makes it fact. He knew, and he knows.
        God does not see a future that does not yet exist.

        See:

        Is the Future Settled or Open? Dr. Lamerson vs. Enyart

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        Is that not the case?
        That is not the case. The Book of Life is an editable document (Re 3:5).

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        Even if God isn't actively guiding people to accept or reject him…
        He'’s guiding people toward himself (Jn 16:8–11). Unfortunately, he's fighting make-believers who say repentance is unnecessary (Mark 1:4, Acts 2:37, 38) and obedience (Ac 5:29) is heretical—not to mention the wicked human heart (Jer 17:9).

        See:

        Lordship

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        …the very fact of his knowledge of who will come and who will go…
        He knows when you make the decision. Though he’s got a good idea about what you’ll do, the choice is yours. He would have preferred Pharaoh repent. He would have preferred Judas repent. What do you think is more valuable to the Lord, one’s repentance or the fulfillment of prophecy?

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        …raises the question of why he had to go and create this situation in the first place.
        Men fell (Rom. 5:12). You blame that on him? He did all he could to save individuals (Ro 5:8).

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        People can say that Adam and Eve 'chose for themselves' by disobeying God and bringing Sin down on the world, but if at any point God knew what would happen in advance (which he apparently did as his whole redemptive plan in Christ was known before time), then everything is essentially on rails…
        You will die for your own sin not Adam’s (Ps 53:3).

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        …and I return to my original point that God created this world knowing it would fall…
        And that he would provide a way back home (Rom. 3:23–26; 1 Pet. 1:18–21).

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        …and that ultimately billions would reject him…
        That’s one them not him—fallen Adam blaming God.

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        …thus attaining the worst reality possible (eternal hell).
        An appropriate punishment when one offends a holy, everlasting God.

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        And what it all boils down to is that God did this for his glory…
        He should be glorified. That is right and good. If you don’t know that then you’re evil (Ro 1:21). He made you. You owe him everything (1 Pet. 4:11).

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        …which is ultimately an arbitrary concept none of us can truly understand.
        You’ll understand one day (Ro 14:11).

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        Yet we are all expected to accept that this is the answer and that this should satisfy the question.
        It’s about Him not you, fallen Adam (Ro 9:21).

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        Either pre-destination is truly a false doctrine, or it is true and people force themselves to look past it because it is truly an awful thing to believe.
        Calvinism is awful (2 Pe 2:1). God is not (Eph. 2:4).

        Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
        That said, it may be that I mis-read something in the links you posted or overlooked something. Are you able to directly address my concern?
        Yes. And time is not a created thing. All of these false doctrines (Heb. 13:9) are intertwined.

        See:

        Is God Outside of Time? Not according to the Bible. By Bob Enyart

        "Being a square keeps you from going around in circles." ~ J. Vernon McGee
        Ro 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:13

        Comment


        • #5
          "He would enable all men to do so if they were willing. He doesn’t have some special elite club. Calvinists who teach that you will notice always happen to be in the club."

          So in order for God to enable men to believe / accept the Gopsel, they have to be willing....but doesn't God give sinners the capacity to be truly willing to begin with? I'm still stuck on the whole 'men have no power to choose God, God chooses us' idea.

          That'’s true. He is available to all; but, few respond (Mt 7:14)

          Ok...I said that the ability to accept / understand God can only be attained by some intervention or predisposition by God. This is basically straight up predestination that I described, and here you're directly agreeing that it's true, but that 'few respond?'. If what I said was true, how is men's so called 'response' of any value when God predisposed them to belief or unbelief?

          Predestination is taught in scripture. The meaning one pours into the concept makes the difference.

          Granted, and I'm doing my best to understand because somehow deep down I don't think killing myself is an ideal solution to my problems.

          God does not see a future that does not yet exist.

          I find that difficult to process but will investigate the link you've posted here.

          He knows when you make the decision. Though he’s got a good idea about what you’ll do, the choice is yours. He would have preferred Pharaoh repent. He would have preferred Judas repent. What do you think is more valuable to the Lord, one’s repentance or the fulfillment of prophecy?

          His concern in my mind would be repentance, not the fulfillment of pre-determined events. But this is the whole crux of my concern, which stems from the fact that Gods attributes as can be gleaned from the Bible imply that he has absolute knowledge and absolute power. With absolute knowledge one can understandably assume that this includes the future and thus, the destiny of every human being. To sway this would require that the very nature of Gods attributes be altered - that, or I am making incorrect assumptions about Gods attributes that ought to be corrected.

          Men fell (Rom. 5:12). You blame that on him? He did all he could to save individuals (Ro 5:8).

          I blame it on Him as long as I believe he had complete foreknowledge of the events that would take place prior to his creation of man. Though he didn't essentially force anyone's hand, his foreknowledge of the misery to come should have almost certainly stopped him from making the active decision to permit 'creation' as we know it in the first place. Atleast, this is how I see it from the moral principles and perspective I assume God gifted me by creating me in his image - the moral principles of justice, love and fairness he has laid out in his word.

          You will die for your own sin not Adam’s (Ps 53:3).

          This also bothers me a tad - while I accept that every mans sin is truly his own and that he deserves eternal punishment for it (on account of the quality of the one being offended), I personally find it unjust that I should be brought into existence pre-disposed to sin, death, and eternal damnation BY DEFAULT because of the sin of the first members of the human race. I posit that surely it would be fairer where a sense of pure justice is concerned that every human being is given a truly clean slate and isn't doomed to the curse of sin by default. That concept ***** to me when God is all powerful and could have arranged certain alternatives. But it seems that no, he'd prefer to formulate a redemptive plan ahead of time featuring the death of his own perfect son for the sins of humanity (the Gospel of course, which in its essence and on its own merit I understand in full) when there was no coercion against him to take this specific route / plan of action. I understand that he has certain attributes that are immutable and that in creating us in his image he bestowed us with ability to understand and exercise these core princples, but something about all this just seems messed up to me. This is coming from someone who desperately craves understanding.

          And that he would provide a way back home (Rom. 3:23–26; 1 Pet. 1:18–21).A

          I claim that God created this world KNOWING it would fall and this is your response - so God created the world KNOWING it would fall (this is pre-creation, past tense), but because he formulated the Christ sacrifice plan it makes it ok for billions to be essentially predestined to hell (after all, the Bible makes it clear not everyone is going to heaven, yet technically it should be possible for everyone to be saved)?

          An appropriate punishment when one offends a holy, everlasting God.

          I agree entirely, but only given that the so called 'offense' isn't predestined in ANY way, shape or form. And when I refer to 'offense' I don't refer to individual sins, I refer to the ultimate acceptance or rejection of Christ.

          He should be glorified. That is right and good. If you don’t know that then you’re evil (Ro 1:21). He made you. You owe him everything (1 Pet. 4:11).

          Again, I agree emphatically, but only so long as I wasn't railroaded before creation into accepting or rejecting him. Even something as semi-fluid as a 'predisposition' to sin and rejection of Christ is horrendously unfair when eternity is at stake don't you think?

          You’ll understand one day (Ro 14:11).

          Though Biblically factual, I can't help but feel slightly condescended given my previous (and very serious) expression that I'm depressed and on edge.

          It’s about Him not you, fallen Adam (Ro 9:21).

          Except I'm not Adam. I'm an individual who was, rather sadly, allowed to be thrust into existence as one of Adam's ancestors and be doomed from birth to be predisposed to sin and death by my very nature. I posit that any rational person ought to experience at least some perturbation at this concept.

          Yes. And time is not a created thing. All of these false doctrines (Heb. 13:9) are intertwined.

          This confuses me. Time flows in one direction and requires a beginning doesn't it? If it requires a beginning, it requires a creator. How can it be that time is not a created thing? It makes sense that God created time and the laws of causation intrinsic to it, and that He Himself is not subject to the limitations of it given he created it. He exists outside of it in 'eternity', a state that we cannot fully comprehend.

          Regardless, I will investigate further - the content of the link you posted sounds very interesting (especially from what I've read so far) and is a viewpoint I actually haven't heard of / considered before. I genuinely believed it wasn't possible for this to be the case but in my situation I'll look at whatever I can.

          Lastly, thank you so far for your input - I may seem unappreciative or indignant toward certain ideas but it is because I am fervently seeking answers, having held these concerns close to my spirit for several years. I'm frustrated and tired so please forgive any negative / offensive attitudes that may bleed through in my responses. Your time is valuable and I appreciate it hugely.



          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            So in order for God to enable men to believe / accept the Gospel, they have to be willing....but doesn't God give sinners the capacity to be truly willing to begin with? I'm still stuck on the whole 'men have no power to choose God, God chooses us' idea.
            So am I. God enables us and we respond (Ro 3:11).

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            …[H]ow is men's so called 'response' of any value when God predisposed them to belief or unbelief?
            He woos (Gen. 6:3) everyone (2 Pe 3:9).

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            Granted, and I'm doing my best to understand because somehow deep down I don't think killing myself is an ideal solution to my problems.
            Not when we’re so close to the end. Christians will suffer (2 Ti 3:12). We are asked to overcome (Rev. 3:5).

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            His concern in my mind would be repentance, not the fulfillment of pre-determined events.
            That’s right. He has ways around everything. Saving people is his concern (Mt 1:21).

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            But this is the whole crux of my concern, which stems from the fact that God’s attributes as can be gleaned from the Bible imply that he has absolute knowledge and absolute power. With absolute knowledge one can understandably assume that this includes the future and thus, the destiny of every human being.
            And He [the Angel of the Lord] said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.” Ge 22:12

            In the above passage the Calvinist would say, Do you really think God didn’t know something. He needed to be educated about something?

            He gave Abraham a test and he passed. He tests us, too.

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            …[H]is foreknowledge of the misery to come should have almost certainly stopped him from making the active decision to permit 'creation' as we know it in the first place.
            He created a perfect place (Ge 2:15). Adam sinned (Gen. 3:14–19).

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            At least, this is how I see it from the moral principles and perspective I assume God gifted me by creating me in his image - the moral principles of justice, love and fairness he has laid out in his word.
            His is: just, loving and fair. You aren’t more: just, loving or fair.

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            [You will die for your own sin not Adam’s (Ps 53:3).] This also bothers me a tad - while I accept that every man’s sin is truly his own and that he deserves eternal punishment for it (on account of the quality of the one being offended), I personally find it unjust that I should be brought into existence pre-disposed to sin, death, and eternal damnation BY DEFAULT because of the sin of the first members of the human race.
            It’s not an issue if you become born again (Jn 3:7).

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            I posit that surely it would be fairer where a sense of pure justice is concerned that every human being is given a truly clean slate and isn't doomed to the curse of sin by default.
            Then get your own universe to run. You aren’t fairer than God. You thought you were? He can be more than you but not less.

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            That concept ***** to me when God is all powerful and could have arranged certain alternatives.
            No, there’s no alternative (Mt 26:39, Jn 14:6). Humble yourself before the Lord or die a second death (Pr 16:18, Re 21:8).

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            But it seems that no, he'd prefer to formulate a redemptive plan ahead of time featuring the death of his own perfect son for the sins of humanity (the Gospel of course, which in its essence and on its own merit I understand in full) when there was no coercion against him to take this specific route / plan of action. I understand that he has certain attributes that are immutable and that in creating us in his image he bestowed us with ability to understand and exercise these core principles, but something about all this just seems messed up to me. This is coming from someone who desperately craves understanding.
            It is pretty messed up for a sinless man to die. He didn’t die for us because he had nothing better to do. Ro 5:8

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            [And that he would provide a way back home (Rom. 3:23–26; 1 Pet. 1:18–21).] I claim that God created this world KNOWING it would fall and this is your response - so God created the world KNOWING it would fall (this is pre-creation, past tense), but because he formulated the Christ sacrifice plan it makes it ok for billions to be essentially predestined to hell…
            No one is predestined to hell. Hell was not created for man (Mt 25:41). If you insist on going there, you will. You’ll notice in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Lk 16:19–31), he isn’t saying I’m so sorry. I did wrong—he’s never repentant. This is the man who never takes responsibility for his own actions. It’s someone else’s fault (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10).

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            …(after all, the Bible makes it clear not everyone is going to heaven, yet technically it should be possible for everyone to be saved)?
            It is possible for everyone to be saved. Boy, the Calvinists really did a number on you.

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            …[S]o long as I wasn't railroaded before creation into accepting or rejecting him.
            God isn’t sick. He’s healthy. He won’t insist on your loving him.

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            Even something as semi-fluid as a 'predisposition' to sin and rejection of Christ is horrendously unfair when eternity is at stake don't you think?
            Not when he’s provided a way back to life. He did he could to save men (Ro 5:8).

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            …I can't help but feel slightly condescended given my previous (and very serious) expression that I'm depressed and on edge.
            None of us knows it all (Jn 16:12). What we don’t get on this side of the grave, we will understand later. The bible is our ABC book for this life.

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            [It’s about Him not you, fallen Adam (Ro 9:21).] Except I'm not Adam.
            You’re in Adam (Ro 5:12–14).

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            I'm an individual who was, rather sadly, allowed to be thrust into existence as one of Adam's ancestors and be doomed from birth to be predisposed to sin and death by my very nature. I posit that any rational person ought to experience at least some perturbation at this concept.
            Not when we’ve passed from death to life (1 Jn 3:14). If you’re God’s enemy of course you’re not pleased (Jn 3:36).

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            [Yes. And time is not a created thing. All of these false doctrines (Heb. 13:9) are intertwined.] This confuses me. Time flows in one direction and requires a beginning doesn't it?
            Think of the beginning and then think a day before that. There is time on earth (Eph. 5:16) and there is time in heaven (Re 8:1).

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            If it requires a beginning, it requires a creator.
            We had a beginning (Ge 1:1-3) God has always existed. Incidentally, he already has a perfect relationship in the trinity. He didn’t need you or I. You’re welcome.

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            How can it be that time is not a created thing?
            That thought comes from Greek paganism not the bible.

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            It makes sense that God created time and the laws of causation intrinsic to it, and that He Himself is not subject to the limitations of it given he created it.
            He’s got time on his hands (2 Pe 3:8). We don’t (Heb. 11:10, 13–16).

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            He exists outside of it in 'eternity'…
            You’ve heard that from Greek pagans not the bible.

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            …a state that we cannot fully comprehend.
            What about a half an hour don’t you get? Re 8:1

            Originally posted by fated_circle View Post
            I'm frustrated and tired so please forgive any negative / offensive attitudes…
            We all are. We’re beat up. We’re tired and we want to go home (1 Co 10:13). The bride longing for her bridegroom right about now is normal.

            “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,

            ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

            “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’ Re 2:8–-11



            "Being a square keeps you from going around in circles." ~ J. Vernon McGee
            Ro 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:13

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            • #7
              Thank you for taking the time out way back in 2016 to talk to me. Unfortunately 2017 was worse than anything preceeding it because I continued to rebel against God. I have had enough. I have realized that I was never saved. I need to be saved. I am finished with living life in rebellion. I repent.

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              • #8
                I believe that God gives us 2 paths in life. Choose the right one and it leads to God. But, the other may lead to hell but it too has pathways back to the right road!

                God is mercy and love. He wants us all to come to him.

                I myself have just got divorced after 31 years together. A MASSIVE life changing event. One i am struggling with daily. 99% my fault. Suicide is on my mind daily. I truly want out. Had enough. See no future. Have health issues too.

                But, i have an 11 year old. How could i desert her? Would my dying alter her life in a bad way?

                I dont know where i am headed. I feel like God has deserted me. A thai friend of mine (lover, who is married) has said that God has asked her to help me. She surprised me this week by saying how much she loves God and how she is now able to connect to him! I dont know what to think.

                20mins ago i was in tears! I feel like my back is up against the wall. I feel like i am at the end of my journey. I have pleaded with God to help me. I hope He will.

                Have strength my friend. You are not alone. You are here on this wonderful site. I pray that God will guide you.

                God bless you.

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                • #9
                  N/a

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