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Socialization !

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  • #46
    Originally posted by RJR_fan View Post
    Well, I'm glad this issue is losing its relevance.

    The insight that public school socialization is the weird kind will, in time, transform our culture!
    I wouldn't bet on it. With the current hold that socialism has on the public school system my prediction is that society will become further polarized, not less. Even if the "insight" you mention does become more prevalent it will take decades to filter through society and then the power bases and the current gods will have to lose their power (probably through the attrition of old age and loss of office thereof).

    One of our problems is that we Christian homeschoolers (there are other types) and post- and amils often live in "bubbles" of cultural myopia, even within the Christian community. The two layers are the secular culture that's hostile to God, the secular layer that's not hostile to religion, and then the layer of two-kingdom dispensational Christendom that expects the world to go to hell in a hand basket and either won't fight for kingdom change or doesn't believe it will have enduring effect.
    "Where there is no vision, the people are unrestrained..." (Pr. 29:18 NAS)
    Lest you think me the pessimist, it people like you and forums like this whereby I think change will occur. On Sunday I was the guest speaker at a theologically conservative but socially liberal congregation. I spent the whole day there in fellowship with leaders and congregants. Between services we spoke casually about a variety of topics and when I spoke (indirectly or explicitly) of my preterist and post-mil leanings I invariably received responses of ignorance: most had never heard such ideas and were unfamiliar with the scriptures that lend us to such povs. Again, on the subway ride home I met a young woman who inquired about what I was reading ("Four Views on the Book of Revelation") and and had never heard the term "preterist." For nearly an hour we surveyed scripture's prophesies.

    As far as socialization goes, my 13 and 15 y.o. children will this week attend debate club, piano lessons, community theater, classical literature omnibus, scouts, choral, and churches from three different denominational perspectives along with their schooling that entails all the core academics plus Latin and Spanish. I see incredulous jaws drop from the PhDs in my life when they learn their complaint about socialization is a myth, at least in the lives of those homeschoolers I know.

    However, as a professional counselor I am also well aware of those homeschooled families whose kids didn't get properly socialized and when the kids go off to college or the work world they isolate and flounder because they lack the skills they need. Sometimes the complaints are true, but they're not true because of homeschooling; it's a matter of correlation, not necessarily causation. The kids are smart, often even outgoing, but undeveloped in more mature ways.

    My brother, who's been a police for 20 years says the problem with home schooled kids is that they speak to adults like adults. He can tell them apart because they're well-mannered and respectful. He believes they've never had a childhood. Yet I suspect my son can trounce him at his favorite video games (the ones he still plays in his mid-40s to the chagrin of his second wife) and my daughter can bore him to death with an exhaustive knowledge of My little Ponies.
    "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will also be like him. Answer a fool as his folly deserves, that he not be wise in his own eyes."
    There's an entire world inside and outside the church's doors that don't understand those two verses.

    I think it important to note that atypical lifespan transcends two generations. We are, thereby, to teach two generations, not one and we are to teach them to teach two generations. So, we teach our kids and we teach their kids, and we teach our kids how to teach their kids (so that they understand their learning is not simply for themselves but for the community in which they live and their children and their community.

    Just a few random thoughts.
    All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

    “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by JRT View Post
      BTW one thing that I deeply resented was the public schools being used as the dumping ground for students from the RC system and from various private Christian schools. These were students that they just couldn't handle any more. I frequently wished that we could have reciprocated with some of our misfits and problem children.
      That works both ways. We sent our kids to private Christians schools for their first few years of education and found a significant portion of the students had been taken out of public schools because they were discipline problems and being brought to the more structured and morally explicit environment of a private system more often than not changed and thrived. I'm fairly certain research using WDC schools (where they're divesting kids from the public system) will support this observation.
      All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

      “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

      Comment


      • #48
        I homeschooled our daughter until fifth grade. For socialization we spent a lot of time at the YMCA. There was homeschool art class as well as swim team and gymnastics. We also got together with the other homeschool families officially once a month, and more often on our own. We did field trips together too. It was awesome. Best thing we ever did!

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Gotchya View Post
          I homeschooled our daughter until fifth grade. For socialization we spent a lot of time at the YMCA. There was homeschool art class as well as swim team and gymnastics. We also got together with the other homeschool families officially once a month, and more often on our own. We did field trips together too. It was awesome. Best thing we ever did!
          Where's she at now? My 15 y.o. son and I just went to meet a Navy recruiter to discuss the possibility of his attending the Naval Academy. He conducted himself marvelously. My 13 y.o. daughter just auditioned for a chorus position in a musical at Wolf Trap. Again, she conducted herself marvelously, got the position and I'll be watching my young drama queen channel all that talent into something useful (maybe even profitable one day?) as she performs on stage with professionals ("yay!" says her proud dad ). You don't have to homeschool to be successful, but it doesn't hurt - certainly anywhere near as much as the naysayers would have us believe.
          All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

          “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

          Comment


          • #50
            Homeschooling is NOT a catchall solution for EVERY prob parents face in trying to properly raise their kids. However, it's one useful tool, especially in areas where the public schools are woefully deficient in several areas.

            My main concern with homeschooling is the possibility a youngster will encounter "culture shock" when he/she enters the real world of making a living & being self-sufficient. Even if raised by well-educated, intelligent Christian parents, the youngster is gonna encounter bad people, dishonesty, etc. in the "real" world & may not know howta deal with them. Also, the youngster's gonna encounter many not-necessarily-evil different personality types he/she may not be prepared for.

            The main responsibility for Christian education lies with the PARENTS, more than anyone else.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by 3Kelly100 View Post
              anyone notice homeschooled people get sick all the time?
              ha ha ha

              actually I find the opposite is true and for good reason, the odds of catching a virus is much greater with greater amounts of contact, its just basic math something my 5 year old home schooler could figure out.

              which is why more people get sick at the hospital than any other public building, because sick people gather at the hospital, its just statistical odds

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by robycop3 View Post
                Homeschooling is NOT a catchall solution for EVERY prob parents face in trying to properly raise their kids.
                Never said it was.
                Originally posted by robycop3 View Post
                However, it's one useful tool, especially in areas where the public schools are woefully deficient in several areas.
                Like morals and propagating a Christian worldview? I live in Fairfax County and a few minutes away from Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, one of the leading high schools in the country and my son could easily pass its admissions exam.
                Originally posted by robycop3 View Post
                My main concern with homeschooling is the possibility a youngster will encounter "culture shock" when he/she enters the real world of making a living & being self-sufficient.
                Yes, it is a problem with some. I know because I see a handful of young men every year who have difficulty transitioning from an isolated homeschool environment to public life at work or the university. That's not a problem of homeschooling, though; that's a problem of an introverted home environment. I've worked my entire Christian life in the social sciences and take my kids to soup kitchens and grate patrols, AA meetings, addiction facilities where I've worked, group homes for those with developmental disabilities. My children are familiar with secular art. My son can tell you the difference between Muddy Waters, B. B. King, Eric Clapton, Stevie Ray Vaughn, and Gary Clark. My daughter is familiar with over 200 musicals, including "Next to Normal" and "Into the Woods" (although I will concede that much of the adult content eludes her). They know the difference between Blackstreet and "Perfect Pitch." They are familiar with NPR as much as they are with conservative talk radio. My son has chosen to stay in Scouts instead of a Christian alternative following the recent decision to allow in overt homosexuals and my daughter performs in a nationally recognized chorus and community theater (she's performed at Wolf Trap, the Kennedy Center, and the White House). My children read the Bible, Francis Schaeffer, Nancy Pearcey, and Dickens, Twain, Dostoyevsky, Hemingway, and John Green. What more exposure do you think is needed?
                Originally posted by robycop3 View Post
                Even if raised by well-educated, intelligent Christian parents, the youngster is gonna encounter bad people, dishonesty, etc. in the "real" world & may not know howta deal with them. Also, the youngster's gonna encounter many not-necessarily-evil different personality types he/she may not be prepared for.
                Yep. What high schooler is prepared for such things? Or arguing a matter of degrees? Which do you think is better able to resist such evil: someone well-established in a Biblical worldview and practice consistent thereof, or one who has been taught a dual worldview where the majority of people are not Christian and behave ungodly? Do you think it's a good idea to expose children to bad people and dishonesty before they have the cognitive faculties to cope with it in a godly manner or to provide such skills before such exposure? What makes you think going to the store, the movies, theater, concerts, Scouts, missions, and even church doesn't expose them to bad people and dishonesty?
                Originally posted by robycop3 View Post
                The main responsibility for Christian education lies with the PARENTS, more than anyone else.
                Indeed, and I question but do not judge anyone who hands their tabula rasa children over to an explicitly worldly system that hourly indoctrinates them in a worldview alien to the standards of the Bible. Math is math. The dispute is not over how to add or subtract but how much it costs two lesbian mothers to raise three kids, two puppies, and four cats on organic granola and heat the house with renewable energy sources. You are correct: it is the responsibility of the parents to provide a Christian education. Public schools do not do that.


                I understand the burden, roby. I was not an advocate of homeschooling when we began doing so eight or nine years ago. We sent out kids to private Christian schools where they did well academically but my wife still had concerns about worldly messages recieved there from both teachers and students (my son came home singing rap songs of questionable content) and it was on her heart to homsechool. We discussed the topic for years before deciding. I agreed to give her one year and appraise the kids' grades at the end of that year via the state's Standards of Learning exams. If they passed she could have one more year to prove the efficacy of homeschooling. If she could provide adequate education for two years I would concede my resistance and commit to the endeavor for the duration of our kids' education.

                We live on a single income. Our income was nearly cut in half when she stopped working to homeschool and homeschooling costs money (we end up paying for two schools because we don't get to keep educational taxes just because we don't send them to public school). We can't put as much money into retirement because we don't make as much money. We are with our kids all day and had to find outside resources to expose our kids to the real world. It was a decision that had wide-ranging effect on our life. I understand homeschooling is not a "catchall solution," roby. I live it.

                So ask yourself, "Why did I think it important to tell Josh (the mental health and marriage counselor) homeschooling isn't a catchall solution?" because that post isn't about homeschooling.
                Last edited by Josheb; 01-29-15, 01:45 PM.
                All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

                “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Josheb View Post
                  Where's she at now? My 15 y.o. son and I just went to meet a Navy recruiter to discuss the possibility of his attending the Naval Academy. He conducted himself marvelously. My 13 y.o. daughter just auditioned for a chorus position in a musical at Wolf Trap. Again, she conducted herself marvelously, got the position and I'll be watching my young drama queen channel all that talent into something useful (maybe even profitable one day?) as she performs on stage with professionals ("yay!" says her proud dad ). You don't have to homeschool to be successful, but it doesn't hurt - certainly anywhere near as much as the naysayers would have us believe.


                  I would have to say its the world who judges man's success, and what they consider success really is, I find that what God see's as a success is diametrically at odds with what the world see's as success
                  true success is a child who enters heaven rich with reward, there is nothing in this world of value but the souls won for Christ

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by back2thebible View Post
                    I would have to say its the world who judges man's success, and what they consider success really is, I find that what God see's as a success is diametrically at odds with what the world see's as success true success is a child who enters heaven rich with reward, there is nothing in this world of value but the souls won for Christ
                    We are created in Christ to do works God has already planned for us (Eph. 2:10). My children are Christians, but that does not mean they are successful fruit-bearing Christians. You're correct that God measures success differently from men, but success is not merely entering heaven. There is no "entering heaven rich with reward" if there are no rewards for work already planned by God that was never realized. If God wants my son to attend the Academy and my daughter to realize her dramatic potential then such things will happen and God will develop their faith and character in the process. We are merely stewards of His purposes.
                    All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

                    “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      If God so loved the World who are we to deny it ? Remember Jesus mixed with the outcasts of his society and his example should be followed by all who claim to be his disciples.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by D. R. View Post
                        We got alot of the negitive stuff from non home schoolers about socialization. I told them I didn't want them to be socializing with some of the kids in public school. My children have never been short of kids to socialize with. We have always had the neighbors kids to be with and that was plenty not to meantion the cousins. I don't think socializing was ever a problem.
                        Now they go to college and do just fine. They are always bringing someone home or going to their friends house or outings.

                        Dell
                        Glad to see this, I just began homeschooling my kids, well just my daughter right now... so far it's going amazingly well... perhaps we could chat more some time since I'm just beginning over here and yours are off to college! Either way, God bless and thanks for the post

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by cloudhopping View Post
                          Socialization is something that you as a parent need to make as a priority.
                          We home school 4 children.

                          It started out of necessity when we moved to Ohio and the schools were unable to challenge our children.
                          Now - we would not have it any other way.

                          First - start a co-OP or find one.
                          We belong to a co-OP and this helps a great deal with socialization.
                          Our children belong to the local library and do projects there - during the after school hours so they are around other children.
                          Our co-OP meets for days out - like going to the Creation museum, a bakery, a day at the park, working at the local food pantry, spending a day planting flowers in someones lawn - or cleaning up the neighborhood when most everyone is not home - and then leaving a note behind stating that the clean up was done by a homeschooler who wanted them to know they are being prayed for...


                          Our co-OP also works with the local YMCA so that we can have "physical Education" - here they learn to swim, learn basketball, etc...
                          A number of us also go to the same Karate school - so much so that the leader, also a Christian has worked in memorization of Bible verses into the program.

                          Bottom line - Socialization is what you make it for your children.
                          It is also a time that you are able to teach your children to do many things that are never done in society anymore.

                          For example - my Son Benjamin will stand up and wait for a lady to sit down when they come to the table.
                          Why - because it is a courtesy and a manner of respect.

                          I love when an older lady asks him - so where did you learn that - and he says "HomeSchool"
                          As someone who's just begun to homeschool, this was encouraging.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by RJR_fan View Post
                            Well, I'm glad this issue is losing its relevance.

                            The insight that public school socialization is the weird kind will, in time, transform our culture!
                            Agreed.

                            We prefer our home schoolers to socialize with people of much more varied age, experience, and social status than the crowd at the local public schools.
                            “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?" - The Messiah

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by LittleDrummerBoy View Post
                              Agreed.

                              We prefer our home schoolers to socialize with people of much more varied age, experience, and social status than the crowd at the local public schools.
                              Home schooled kids (and adults) are often the most socially inept folks I have ever seen. They seem to (in a very large part) depend upon mommy or daddy to engage them in conversation, and have difficulty speaking to 'outsiders.'

                              Socialization amongst their peers teaches them how to interact intelligently, how to make judgments (and yes, they CAN discuss those judgments with their parents when they get home) to difficulties never seen at home, such as 'd' or 'f' papers, how to fix them WITHOUT mommy's help, etc.
                              God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

                              I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Connie Weirick View Post
                                Socialization id booha. Throw innocents in with the drugs of society and herd them like cattle. Mine gets plenty locally with the Repitle, Christian, and Equine community.
                                Is that why 90%+ of all home schooled kids leave their religious faith behind when they go to the local 'college' that may be just an old pastor starting a 'college' in the basement of his church, total student body of 8, one 'professor,' the old guy himself? We have one of those in our area. He advertises it as a 'Bible College' in the Christian publications. He offers 2 classes per 'semester.'

                                If your kids can't 'keep unpolluted' in public schools, why do you ASSUME they can do so when they are released to the ADULT world?
                                Last edited by Morefish; 02-16-16, 04:37 PM.
                                God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

                                I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

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