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Help what do I do? Being Christian isn't this happy bubble like Atheists think it is.

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  • Help what do I do? Being Christian isn't this happy bubble like Atheists think it is.

    I know based on

    -Reasoning, research, and prayer that Christianity is the truth.

    This thread talks about
    • Problems with my father
    • Why Atheists are wrong about Christians being Christians because they are in their bubble of happiness. This is still related to my father.

    Each bullet point is discussed.



    Problems with my father

    My father is a very aggressive Agnostic Atheist. I could even go as far as to say he is anti theist. When I try to give reasonable logic and evidence he starts raising his voice and says he doesn't want to hear any more of my crap.

    The thing is I've only said the first two words in what I'm going to explain, and he cuts me off.

    I've tried witnessing many times over the years. At first I presented my ideas without much reason. But with the help of CARM I now witness with more logic and reasoning to my arguments. Also as I have grown older, I have become more mature, and I very rarely insult like I used to when I first witnessed. I am a lot more level headed, a lot more soft spoken, and a lot more mature about it, however unfortunately he still gets aggressive, he still gets really defensive, and he shouts statements out that he has no proof for. He can't even give me a website,book or video in which he read such statements:

    Here are his statements

    "The Jews wrote the book. They're laughing their butts off at how Christianity has changed it for lies"
    "The New testament was written 70 years ago and it was made up"

    And He hates Christianity. I know he hates the religion, because of how he argues with me. He doesn't hate Christians though, just to make that clear. He hates Christianity because he takes the extremists, the massacres, and uses that as a basis for what Christianity stands for. Again I try to reason with him, it makes things more heated. He is not a reasonable level headed person willing to consider logic, unless of course it fits into his world view.

    I have watched many anti Christian, Pro Christian, and science. I am willing to give credit to the opponent when their argument is valid and has left me thinking about it and needing to do research for a counterargument. Sometimes I will watch a pro Atheist video and think "fair enough point". I am also willing to acknowledge when I am wrong. But my dad doesn't seem to be the same way.

    I try to reason with him, but he cuts me off. And some of his statements are far too broad for me to give a counterargument. There are quite a few articles on CARM regarding his statement. What strategies can I use to get him to be a lot more specific, so I can give a quick to the point counterargument. I don't want to explain A-Z. But he throws like 3 or 4 different statements at me that take time to process, pull the information I remember from CARM out of my head, and while still processing it, he throws something else at me.

    And some of his statements I will not mention because they are downright offensive.

    It's gotten to that point where the thought of trying again makes me feel sick to my stomach. But with the help of God I am able to keep witnessing, in spite of the fact that it's not an enjoyable experience, and also because I love him and want him to go to heaven.

    The Atheist view that Christians are Christians because it's this nice happy bubble were we die and go to heaven is not true for all Christians

    I will be the first to admit that my dad is so strongly against the idea of Christianity. He hates it. That I am at the edge where I want to start begging God to show himself or something to my dad....unfortunately even that might not work, my dad might just dismiss it as hallucination. He hates Christianity. I know he hates the religion, because of how he argues with me. He doesn't hate Christians though, just to make that clear. He hates Christianity because he takes the extremists, the massacres, and uses that as a basis for what Christianity stands for. Again I try to reason, it makes things more heated. He is not a reasonable level headed person willing to consider logic, unless of course it fits into his world view.

    It's not easy knowing that unless some miracle happens my dad might go to hell. The idea of it is painful, it makes me feel sick to my stomach, it makes me cry. But I know that Christianity is the truth. Atheist make this statement:

    "You can't just deny atheism, because the idea of not having an afterlife does not give you comfort. We are adults now. We have grown up."

    Well with that same logic

    "I can't deny Christianity. because the idea of how hard it is to convince my dad and have him go to hell does not give me comfort. I am an adult now. I have to grow up and face the music."

    Because of the situation I'm in with my family. And because I love my dad and mum very much. Atheism is a more comfortable world view for me. But unfortunately this world view is not true. Christianity is true in spite of the discomfort it gives me. I am not someone who denies truth. If Atheists give me enough evidence/logic for their position which is wrought with holes and logical fallacies I would become an Atheist, because quite frankly it is a lot more comforting to become an Atheist. But the Atheists have failed to do this. And no science is not proof against God. Science might just show you how God did something. It doesn't mean God does not exist.

    And yes there are holes in the Christian argument but I am always able to find answers to these holes. With Atheism I am just left with more questions than answers.

    I will tell you I am Christian because it's true. But I am willing to change my mind if presented with evidence that proves it false. Real evidence. I am not Christian because it's comforting. Because in my circumstance Christianity is depressing. But according to the Atheists I am a grown up. And I can't deny the truth just because it makes me depressed.

    The only evidence that would be good enough for me is if they find Jesus's body. Because there is plenty of evidence for the existence of Jesus, his ministry, his death, his resurrection. That's why my standards to not be Christian any more are so high. They are not unreasonable IMHO due to the evidence supporting Jesus, and his 1 in 1000000000000000000 of fulfilling all 8 prophecies.

    Evolution is not evidence. If evolution is true all it proves is that a few chapter in the bible aren't true. This does not mean that the rest of the bible is false. And it does not mean Jesus did not die on the cross for us. So no evolution is not good enough. Sorry.

    Circular logic is not evidence

    Example of circular logic

    Evangelical Christians are controlled by irrational forces. (the idea of Heaven and hell)
    Therefore, they are no longer able to reason.
    Therefore, their beliefs are not based on reason.
    Therefore, we can reject their beliefs as false.
    Therefore, their belief in the existence of heaven and hell is irrational.
    Therefore, evangelical Christians are controlled by irrational beliefs.

    Another example of circular logic

    God does not exist.
    Therefore, God does not personally reveal His existence to people.
    When people think they are having experiences of God, this experience can be fully explained in terms of naturalistic causation, using scientific terms (particularly through neurological studies).
    Therefore, people do not have experiences of God.
    Therefore, testimonies of God’s existence do not prove that God exists.
    Therefore, God does not exist.

    And science is not evidence. Just because you've told me how a lightning bolt works does not mean that God does not create lightning bolts. Just because you've told me how a cake was made, does not mean someone didn't make the cake.
    Last edited by Kyralina; 06-04-15, 06:13 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Kyralina View Post
    I know based on

    -Reasoning, research, and prayer that Christianity is the truth.

    This thread talks about
    • Problems with my father
    • Why Atheists are wrong about Christians being Christians because they are in their bubble of happiness. This is still related to my father.

    Each bullet point is discussed.



    Problems with my father

    My father is a very aggressive Agnostic Atheist. I could even go as far as to say he is anti theist. When I try to give reasonable logic and evidence he starts raising his voice and says he doesn't want to hear any more of my crap.

    The thing is I've only said the first two words in what I'm going to explain, and he cuts me off.

    I've tried witnessing many times over the years. At first I presented my ideas without much reason. But with the help of CARM I now witness with more logic and reasoning to my arguments. Also as I have grown older, I have become more mature, and I very rarely insult like I used to when I first witnessed. I am a lot more level headed, a lot more soft spoken, and a lot more mature about it, however unfortunately he still gets aggressive, he still gets really defensive, and he shouts statements out that he has no proof for. He can't even give me a website,book or video in which he read such statements:

    Here are his statements

    "The Jews wrote the book. They're laughing their butts off at how Christianity has changed it for lies"
    "The New testament was written 70 years ago and it was made up"

    And He hates Christianity. I know he hates the religion, because of how he argues with me. He doesn't hate Christians though, just to make that clear. He hates Christianity because he takes the extremists, the massacres, and uses that as a basis for what Christianity stands for. Again I try to reason with him, it makes things more heated. He is not a reasonable level headed person willing to consider logic, unless of course it fits into his world view.

    I have watched many anti Christian, Pro Christian, and science. I am willing to give credit to the opponent when their argument is valid and has left me thinking about it and needing to do research for a counterargument. Sometimes I will watch a pro Atheist video and think "fair enough point". I am also willing to acknowledge when I am wrong. But my dad doesn't seem to be the same way.

    I try to reason with him, but he cuts me off. And some of his statements are far too broad for me to give a counterargument. There are quite a few articles on CARM regarding his statement. What strategies can I use to get him to be a lot more specific, so I can give a quick to the point counterargument. I don't want to explain A-Z. But he throws like 3 or 4 different statements at me that take time to process, pull the information I remember from CARM out of my head, and while still processing it, he throws something else at me.

    And some of his statements I will not mention because they are downright offensive.

    It's gotten to that point where the thought of trying again makes me feel sick to my stomach. But with the help of God I am able to keep witnessing, in spite of the fact that it's not an enjoyable experience, and also because I love him and want him to go to heaven.

    The Atheist view that Christians are Christians because it's this nice happy bubble were we die and go to heaven is not true for all Christians

    I will be the first to admit that my dad is so strongly against the idea of Christianity. He hates it. That I am at the edge where I want to start begging God to show himself or something to my dad....unfortunately even that might not work, my dad might just dismiss it as hallucination. He hates Christianity. I know he hates the religion, because of how he argues with me. He doesn't hate Christians though, just to make that clear. He hates Christianity because he takes the extremists, the massacres, and uses that as a basis for what Christianity stands for. Again I try to reason, it makes things more heated. He is not a reasonable level headed person willing to consider logic, unless of course it fits into his world view.

    It's not easy knowing that unless some miracle happens my dad might go to hell. The idea of it is painful, it makes me feel sick to my stomach, it makes me cry. But I know that Christianity is the truth. Atheist make this statement:

    "You can't just deny atheism, because the idea of not having an afterlife does not give you comfort. We are adults now. We have grown up."

    Well with that same logic

    "I can't deny Christianity. because the idea of how hard it is to convince my dad and have him go to hell does not give me comfort. I am an adult now. I have to grow up and face the music."

    Because of the situation I'm in with my family. And because I love my dad and mum very much. Atheism is a more comfortable world view for me. But unfortunately this world view is not true. Christianity is true in spite of the discomfort it gives me. I am not someone who denies truth. If Atheists give me enough evidence/logic for their position which is wrought with holes and logical fallacies I would become an Atheist, because quite frankly it is a lot more comforting to become an Atheist. But the Atheists have failed to do this. And no science is not proof against God. Science might just show you how God did something. It doesn't mean God does not exist.

    And yes there are holes in the Christian argument but I am always able to find answers to these holes. With Atheism I am just left with more questions than answers.

    I will tell you I am Christian because it's true. But I am willing to change my mind if presented with evidence that proves it false. Real evidence. I am not Christian because it's comforting. Because in my circumstance Christianity is depressing. But according to the Atheists I am a grown up. And I can't deny the truth just because it makes me depressed.

    The only evidence that would be good enough for me is if they find Jesus's body. Because there is plenty of evidence for the existence of Jesus, his ministry, his death, his resurrection. That's why my standards to not be Christian any more are so high. They are not unreasonable IMHO due to the evidence supporting Jesus, and his 1 in 1000000000000000000 of fulfilling all 8 prophecies.

    Evolution is not evidence. If evolution is true all it proves is that a few chapter in the bible aren't true. This does not mean that the rest of the bible is false. And it does not mean Jesus did not die on the cross for us. So no evolution is not good enough. Sorry.

    Circular logic is not evidence

    Example of circular logic

    Evangelical Christians are controlled by irrational forces. (the idea of Heaven and hell)
    Therefore, they are no longer able to reason.
    Therefore, their beliefs are not based on reason.
    Therefore, we can reject their beliefs as false.
    Therefore, their belief in the existence of heaven and hell is irrational.
    Therefore, evangelical Christians are controlled by irrational beliefs.

    Another example of circular logic

    God does not exist.
    Therefore, God does not personally reveal His existence to people.
    When people think they are having experiences of God, this experience can be fully explained in terms of naturalistic causation, using scientific terms (particularly through neurological studies).
    Therefore, people do not have experiences of God.
    Therefore, testimonies of Godís existence do not prove that God exists.
    Therefore, God does not exist.

    And science is not evidence. Just because you've told me how a lightning bolt works does not mean that God does not create lightning bolts. Just because you've told me how a cake was made, does not mean someone didn't make the cake.

    hi
    God bless you, for being the beautiful person that you are.

    I think you should resolve in your mind that arguments with dad will not be the tool which God will use in his conversion. You see, many people go through this same scenario, which you've described, with your father. You must try to understand that he's your dad. It's not likely that he will listen to his daughter teach him [or son, if that's the case]. He and mum brought you up, saw you [and essencially still see you] as a helpless babe. He may have changed your diapers, wiped your nose, and,just generally, cared for you when you couldn't care for yourself.
    He also heard when you 'I very rarely insult like I used to when I first witnessed.' It is difficult to take words back once you let those insults out..like putting toothpaste back inside the tube.

    But that doesn't mean that there's no hope. The hope lies in what you said about 'But with the help of God I am able to keep witnessing, in spite of the fact that it's not an enjoyable experience, and also because I love him and want him to go to heaven.' THIS is your strongest suit. As much as you morally [biblically] can, you should show your dad that God has changed you. Obey him in everything that is not contrary to God's word. Pray without ceasing (1 Thess.5:17; 1 Tim.2:8).
    Ask God to open dad's eyes to see that his daughter loves him and is praying for his soul. The things that are impossible with men, are possible with God. Our Lord hears and answers the prayers of his children.

    Many of us never knew a father when we were growing up. And many others had poor examples of 'fathers' before us. I had two step-dads, one was a homosexual, a hater and fighter with my mom. I can remember, as a young boy, hiding and trembling behind the couch while the bloody fights were raging. My other step-dad was a raving drunkerd- more fights, beatings, being shot at, witnessing my mom's clothes being torn from her, etc. But our consolation is this- we have a heavenly Father now, and He is perfectly loving and caring for us. Our steps are ordered by Him, and even when we don't understand the 'why's for lifes trials, we can rest assured that He has a wise purpose in all of it, and He is working everything together for our ultimate good

    "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Rom.8:28

    Comment


    • #3
      you stated "I will tell you I am Christian because it's true. But I am willing to change my mind if presented with evidence that proves it false."

      This, to me, is the key issue you are experiencing in your Christian life. Sounds like you want to see evidence to prove your beliefs to be false. This is not "abnormal", especially for Christians who are continually bombarded with the worldly views of those around them.

      Also realize that you, nor anyone else, will ever be able to argue your father into redemption. God calls those to Himself as He wills. We cannot force it. Your best bet is to Pray, live the life of a good Christian, show him (through actions, not words) how you have changed, and be ready to talk when he desires. Trying to find all the answers that you can use to re-fute his arguments won't work. It will likely only lead you down the path of questioning your own beliefs. And because you are "willing to change my mind if presented with evidence", then you are at a critical point in your "walk" where you would be better served just praying and spending time with Jesus. As least until you've seen enough "evidence" of His works in your life to not be questioning so much.

      Question all you want. But do it once you are more firm in your faith. God can handle you either way you go. but it would be a LOT easier on you if you held those questions until you've spent a LOT of time in His arms.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you for sharing Kyralina, your story is very encouraging.

        Indeed, this life is full of suffering and trials, and being a Christian does not excempt us from having to experience them. But remember that even though in this world we have trouble, in Christ we have peace. Keep doing the good work of reaching out to your dad, maybe one day God will get a hold of him.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi, Kyranlina. I hope all's well. I see that this thread is a tad old but I'd like to add some thoughts that might be helpful. I'm going to post a couple of links to YouTube videos that might be encouraging to you as you minister not only to your father but to others.

          The first is a link to Dr. Jason Lisle's presentation, "The Ultimate Proof of Creation." Dr. Lisle is an astrophysicist by training and was schooled in apologetics by the late Dr. Greg Bahnsen, a Christian philosopher who debated many self-professed "atheists." I'm going to post a clip from his debate with Edward Tabash.

          The bottom line with those who profess to be atheists is that they are using a Christian worldview's presuppositions to try to oppose Chritianity. The so-called atheist worldview is logically inconsistent. You'll see that in both clips.

          All this to say that as you seek to honor your father it is wise to share the Gospel with him; that's one of the most loving and honoring things you could do for him. However, and this goes for me as well as you and every Christian, we have to give an answer to every man and to do that with "meekness and fear." (1 Peter 3:15, KJV) So we need to be as respectful as we are truthful; sometimes that gets lost in the conversation.

          Anyway, here are the two videos. I'd encourage you to do a search for Dr. Greg Bahnsen's debate with Dr. Gordon Stein. It's 3 hours long so bear that in mind.

          Dr. Lisle's presentation: https://youtu.be/CvRy6AjeyLc

          Dr. Bahnsen's opening statement vs. Mr. Tabash: https://youtu.be/HGLVSN4JIfE

          Comment

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