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Question on Eph 5

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  • Question on Eph 5

    28-33 Men ought to give their wives the love they naturally have for their own bodies. The love a man gives his wife is the extending of his love for himself to enfold her. Nobody ever hates or neglects his own body; he feeds and looks after it. And that is what Christ does for his body, the Church. And we are all members of that body, we are his flesh and blood! ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’. The marriage relationship is doubtless a great mystery, but I am speaking of something deeper still—the marriage of Christ and his Church. In practice what I have said amounts to this: let every one of you who is a husband love his wife as he loves himself; let the wife reverence her husband.

    If someone is beating his wife, based on the loving one's wife like his own flesh or body, Did God really join them together in the first place? Why or Why Not?

    How does one know if God has joined two people together? I know I am not missing any ribs.
    Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

  • #2
    I ran across this line of thinking in the quote below, is it vaild? why or why not?

    A viable marriage is a contract of mutual support, love and respect:

    However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. (NIV, Ephesians 5:33)

    If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. (NIV, 1 Timothy 5:8)

    If an unbeliever abandons the marriage, the other partner is freed from the marriage bond (1 Corinthians 7:15).
    Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
      I ran across this line of thinking in the quote below, is it vaild? why or why not?

      A believer should never date or marry an unbeliever! We are not called to be unevenly yoked, but if one becomes a believer after they were married and the other is not a believer, they are to remain married and follow Christ to love honor and obey their husband as it is written and perhaps the unbeliever will see the fruits of their faith and will have a change of heart to be converted. It is my experience that how I treat my spouse is reflected in the way they treat me and I believe that God prunes us and trains us in this way.

      God works in mysterious ways to get us in line with His Word to raise us up.
      If the believer walks righteously towards their unbelieving spouse but the unbeliever wants out because of them being a believer, if the unbeliever leaves, then the believer is free from that marriage, but must seek only a believer from that point and divorce of two believers is forbidden.
      Prayer for God to guide us in the things that we need to help us restore our relationship and good fruit display can save a marriage and God is about restoration and keeping marriages together for all's sake.
      The purpose of my posts are not to cause bicker or division, but to show truth from the scripture for edifying of the soul. It does not matter what we think, it is what God's Word says that matters.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
        28-33 Men ought to give their wives the love they naturally have for their own bodies. The love a man gives his wife is the extending of his love for himself to enfold her. Nobody ever hates or neglects his own body; he feeds and looks after it. And that is what Christ does for his body, the Church. And we are all members of that body, we are his flesh and blood! ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’. The marriage relationship is doubtless a great mystery, but I am speaking of something deeper still—the marriage of Christ and his Church. In practice what I have said amounts to this: let every one of you who is a husband love his wife as he loves himself; let the wife reverence her husband.

        If someone is beating his wife, based on the loving one's wife like his own flesh or body, Did God really join them together in the first place? Why or Why Not?

        How does one know if God has joined two people together? I know I am not missing any ribs.
        Have you joined FLESH with a woman? Then you're MARRIED to her - just ask Jacob. Case closed.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

          Have you joined FLESH with a woman? Then you're MARRIED to her - just ask Jacob. Case closed.
          If I understand you, anyone who had relations with anyone, then gets married by law they are commenting adultery?

          Was Lot then married to his daughters?
          Last edited by Daniel Marsh; 01-24-18, 08:07 PM.
          Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

          Comment


          • #6
            They had a Wedding Feast beforehand,
            Genesis 29:21-22New American Standard Bible (NASB)

            21 Then Jacob said to Laban, “Give me my wife, for my time is completed, that I may go in to her.” 22 Laban gathered all the men of the place and made a feast.

            Genesis 19
            29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.

            30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

            31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

            32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

            33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

            34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

            35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

            36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

            Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post

              If I understand you, anyone who had relations with anyone, then gets married by law they are commenting adultery?

              Was Lot then married to his daughters?
              OF course. they joined flesh with him. You might want to check and see how that all worked out - It ain't pretty.

              Just like Jacob "Joined Flesh" with, and became married to somebody that he didn't even recognize in the dark.

              The "American Civil LAW" has nothing to do with "Biblical marriage" - beyond the execution before witnesses of a legally binding contract defining the "Legal entity of marriage" - tax provisions, access, legal responsibility, what to do with real property if/when the contract is terminated, and the conditions for doing so, etc. But at the conclusion of the "Wedding", if the couple has been celibate up to that point they're STILL NOT MARRIED until such time as they "Join flesh".

              It appears that in the U.S., most wedding ceremonies are performed for folks that have already BEEN married Biblically, even for YEARS, and in many cases both members of the couple are already guilty of multiple adultries.
              Last edited by Bob Carabbio; 01-25-18, 12:27 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                OF course. they joined flesh with him. You might want to check and see how that all worked out - It ain't pretty.

                Just like Jacob "Joined Flesh" with, and became married to somebody that he didn't even recognize in the dark.

                The "American Civil LAW" has nothing to do with "Biblical marriage" - beyond the execution before witnesses of a legally binding contract defining the "Legal entity of marriage" - tax provisions, access, legal responsibility, what to do with real property if/when the contract is terminated, and the conditions for doing so, etc. But at the conclusion of the "Wedding", if the couple has been celibate up to that point they're STILL NOT MARRIED until such time as they "Join flesh".

                It appears that in the U.S., most wedding ceremonies are performed for folks that have already BEEN married Biblically, even for YEARS, and in many cases both members of the couple are already guilty of multiple adultries.
                I am guessing that most men are guilty of multiple adultries often before and after marriage.

                Matthew 5:28
                But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Were Mary and Joseph Married at Jesus' Birth?

                Matthew 1:25Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

                25 But Joseph did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And he named him Jesus.



                Under your logic they were not married making Jesus illegitimate. But, by cultural standards they were married.

                The Hebrew verb aras, translated mnēsteuō in Greek, refers to Jewish marriage practice in which the groom contractually pays a bride-price (mohar) to the bride’s father (Genesis 34:12). According to Old Testament scholar Douglas Stuart, “This was the final step in the courtship process, virtually equivalent in legal status to the wedding ceremony.” According to the Mishnah Ketubbot 5.2, the betrothal would last a year, with the bride remaining in the home of her father. Recalling the legal texts in Deuteronomy mentioned earlier plus the equation of David’s betrothal to Michal as marriage (2 Samuel 3:14), we see that under Jewish law, a betrothed woman was considered to be married.

                Returning to Joseph, he would have paid the bride price to Mary’s father at their engagement (Matthew 1:20; Luke 1:27). Despite his misgivings, Joseph then obeyed the angel’s command to marry Mary (Matthew 1:20). The time of formal engagement, whether a full year or not, had passed between them. So Joseph and Mary had begun to live together except for sexual relations (Matthew 1:25). Luke’s understanding of mnēsteuō must be expanded to include both the betrothal/engagement as well as marital cohabitation. Therefore a better translation of Luke 2:5 would be: “Mary his wife who was expecting a child.” (The NKJV attempts a hybrid with “betrothed wife.”) English translations that suggest the couple was still only in the engagement stage of fiancé/fiancée must be discarded. Joseph and Mary traveled to Bethlehem as a full husband and wife under ancient Jewish law.
                https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/...t-jesus-birth/

                Deuteronomy 23:2Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
                2 If a man’s parents were not legally married, that man may not join with the men of Israel to worship the Lord. And none of his descendants to the tenth generation—may join in that group.


                Since Jesus was allowed to enter the Temple, they must have been Married before having sexual relations.

                If Jesus were
                illegitimate then he would have a spot or blemish and as such can not be our savior.
                Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
                  Under your logic they were not married making Jesus illegitimate.
                  How can a totally MIRACULOUS conception where NO sexual contact between humans be declared illegitimate? (although you can bet that there were "Time counters" that came to that conclusion. - John 8:41).

                  On the other hand, if Joseph NEVER HAD sexual contact with Mary (as the Catholics with their "Perpetual Virginity" foolishness teach), then Joseph and Mary WERE NEVER MARRIED AT ALL.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Rather than SHOUTING IN ALL CAPS to make emphasis, how about using the text bold in the edit button (the square with the underlined A)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SolemnBalance View Post
                      Rather than SHOUTING IN ALL CAPS to make emphasis, how about using the text bold in the edit button (the square with the underlined A)
                      How about you do it your way, and I'll do it MINE. If you don't like my style, then don't open what I write.

                      Problem solved.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                        How about you do it your way, and I'll do it MINE. If you don't like my style, then don't open what I write.

                        Problem solved.
                        Your way is improper internet etiquette and is considered being rude.

                        1 Corinthians 13:5
                        doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;


                        Check your spelling and grammar
                        Use proper punctuation, as though you were typing a letter
                        Avoid shortened words, it's not a text message you're sending
                        Use mixed case, UPPER CASE LOOKS AS IF YOU'RE SHOUTING
                        Never publish anything you would not write on a postcard
                        Use smileys to indicate tone of voice, but use them sparingly. Don't assume that the inclusion of a smiley will make the recipient happy with what you say or wipe out an otherwise insulting comment
                        When commenting on blogs and forums or replying to an email, wait overnight to send emotional responses
                        Don't send mail or post comments solely to point out other people's errors in typing or spelling
                        Remember that whoever reads your content is a human being whose culture, language, and humour have different points of reference from your own. Be especially careful with sarcasm, slang and local acronyms
                        Consider that a large audience will read your words. That may include your present or your next boss, so take care in what you write. Remember too, that websites and mailing lists are frequently archived and that your words may be stored for a very long time in a place to which many people have access. Google never forgets
                        Be professional and careful what you say about others
                        https://doepud.co.uk/blog/netiquette
                        Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                          How can a totally MIRACULOUS conception where NO sexual contact between humans be declared illegitimate? (although you can bet that there were "Time counters" that came to that conclusion. - John 8:41).

                          On the other hand, if Joseph NEVER HAD sexual contact with Mary (as the Catholics with their "Perpetual Virginity" foolishness teach), then Joseph and Mary WERE NEVER MARRIED AT ALL.
                          Scripture is plan that they did not have sexual relations until after Jesus' birth. If they were not married as you claim then He would be illegitimate.

                          Matthew 1:25 and knew her not until she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus.
                          Matthew 1:25 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

                          25 But Joseph did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And he named him Jesus.

                          Definition of illegitimate. 1 : not recognized as lawful offspring; specifically : born of parents not married to each other.
                          Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post

                            Scripture is plan that they did not have sexual relations until after Jesus' birth. If they were not married as you claim then He would be illegitimate.

                            Matthew 1:25 and knew her not until she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus.
                            Matthew 1:25 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

                            25 But Joseph did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And he named him Jesus.

                            Definition of illegitimate. 1 : not recognized as lawful offspring; specifically : born of parents not married to each other.
                            Since God, and Mary were not married, does that make Jesus Illegitimate for you??

                            Only the Catholics are ignorant enough to claim that Mary and Joseph Never married (and had their own kids after Jesus was born).

                            Comment

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