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Should we use logic?

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  • Should we use logic?

    Brain Stopper No. 2: ‘Human Logic’ is Bad
    February 3rd, 2010 | 13 Comments | Posted in Brain Stoppers, Control Tactics, John Mark Pool, Kathi Pelton, Paul Cox, Rick Joyner, Twisted Scriptures
    brain_scan
    Is being logical unspiritual? That’s what modern “apostles” and “prophets” want you to think.
    In fact, it’s not just unspiritual — it’s a sin to be repented of, according to Paul Cox, founder of Aslan’s Place in Hesperia, Calif. His suggested prayer urges Christians to repent of “all intellectualism, ungodly reasoning, logic and humanism.”
    Huh? When did logic become an evil comparable to “ungodly reasoning” and “humanism”?
    I want to show that logic isn’t bad — it’s a gift from God, and it protects us from harmful beliefs.
    Human Logic vs. Heavenly Logic
    “Apostles” and “prophets,” like Cox, often claim that there are two types of logic: “human logic” and “heavenly logic.” Human logic — they say — is unspiritual, evil, bad. Another example of the “human logic is bad” teaching can be found in “apostle/prophet” Rick Joyner’s prophecy titled Civil War in the Church.
    Back in 1996, Joyner prophesied that an end-time battle will be fought in the church between two types of Christians — the “grey coats” and the “blue coats.” The grey coats — who represent the bad guys in Joyner’s prophecy — are Christians who use their “natural minds” and “human wisdom” to evaluate teachings in the church. The grey color of their coats represents “grey matter” — which, Joyner points out, is a slang expression for “the brain.”
    But the blue coats — the good guys — don’t rely on their brains to evaluate teachings. They’re “heavenly minded” and “follow the Holy Spirit,” according to Joyner.
    See other recent examples of the “human logic is bad” teaching by Kathi Pelton and John Mark Pool.
    The problem with their statements is that the Bible doesn’t teach that there are two types of logic, and it doesn’t teach that human logic is bad. Let’s look at two Bible verses that have been misused by “apostles” and “prophets” to support these teachings.
    1 Corinthians 1:21 and 3:19
    In his first letter to the Corinthian church, the Apostle Paul says that the “wisdom of this world” is foolishness to God (1 Corinthians 3:19), and that God’s plan of salvation seems like “foolishness” to humankind (1 Corinthians 1:21).
    So, the Apostle Paul believed that “human logic” is bad, right?
    Wrong. Confusion occurs because so-called prophets like Joyner teach that “worldly wisdom” and “human logic” are the same thing. They’re not. They’re very different.
    When Paul talked about worldly wisdom, he was talking about the things that are valued by people who are separated from God — things like power, fame and money. These things are the opposite of the things God values. That’s why Paul says that God’s plan of salvation — through a crucified Christ — appears like “foolishness” to worldly people.
    Paul’s description of “worldly” wisdom matches James’ description of “earthly” wisdom in James chapter 3 — it’s jealous, covetous and self-seeking (James 3:3-18).
    So, it’s selfish ambition that Paul and James are bashing — not “human logic,” as Joyner asserts.
    Human Logic
    Logic is the science of correct thinking. We use it to determine if our beliefs are sound or not. We use it everyday.
    Not sure of this? Let me show you.
    One of the rules of logic is called the “law of non-contradiction.” This rule may sound complicated, but bear with me. In simple terms, it means that if two things contradict each other, then they can’t both be true. For example, a moving car can’t be both in the street and not in the street at the same time. It’s either in the street or not in the street.
    We use the law of non-contradiction when we decide if it’s safe to cross the street. We use other laws of logic, too — whether we know their names or not. And we have places for people who don’t use them — they’re called mental hospitals.
    That’s because the opposite of being logical is being illogical. And being illogical isn’t being spiritual — no matter what teachers like Joyner or Cox want us to think.
    Logic Glorifies God
    God made our minds, and it glorifies Him when we use them. We were created in His image and that includes our ability to reason.
    In fact, Jesus, Himself, is called “the Logic” in Scripture. Where? In John 1:1 — where He’s called “the Word.” The Greek word for “Word” is logos — which is where we get our English word for “logic.”
    In other words, Jesus is the Supreme Rational Being who governs all things. It shouldn’t be surprising, then, that the Greatest Commandment includes an admonition for us to love God with all of our minds (Matthew 22:36-38).
    Likewise, the original apostles never discouraged people from using their minds. In fact, they had harsh words for false teachers who didn’t base their teachings on sound beliefs, but instead promoted a secret knowledge — or “heavenly” knowledge, as Joyner would prefer to call it. Peter called these false teachers “unreasoning animals” (2 Peter 2:12).
    So by not using their God-given abilities to reason — through applying the rules of logic — these false teachers are being unspiritual.
    Why would they go to so much trouble to urge people to shut off their brains? So their followers won’t scrutinize the teachings of these so-called prophets and apostles. If they did, they’d detect the error.
    Think about it.
    http://www.spiritoferror.org/2010/02...gic-is-bad/356

    While driving I feel like posting a sign on the back of my car that says, "I can't drive faster than the driver ahead of me" and "two cars can not occupy the same space at the same time."
    Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

  • #2
    See my siggy and you will know why I felt it necessary to reply to your post.

    “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
    but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


    I have had miracles happen in my life and in those of people I know. Prayers that have been answered before I even prayed. So often these things are written off by coincidence by others, especially those who say they are atheists.

    Actions which need to be done that seem to be dangerous or odd will remain undone if one acts on logic instead of stepping out in faith.

    Heroics are often based on faith not logic.

    When it comes to the Bible faith is needed for understanding. Logic is indeed necessary to understand what it in the Bible but we must also logically concede that we are not as smart as God and our understanding is not based on omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience. An easier example, the logic of a mentally or physically handicapped person will not be the same as that of a physically fit genius. The logic of a 90 year old is not the same as that of a teen.The logic of a person who has been through hell on earth is not the same as that of someone who has lived a life of luxury.

    So everyone will look at the Bible with different logic. None of us are the same mentally. Some people believe that the flood is true, some a story, I lean toward true but shrug my shoulders and say that the meaning of the story what is truly important and don't waste a lot of time arguing the scientific possibility that it actually happened.

    Stepping out in faith helps us be good. I do not get drunk, commit adultery nor did I fornicate as a young woman, steal or commit other sins because logic tells me that if God doesn't want me to do these things they are not good for me to do. I didn't even know what oral sex was until I was in my mid-20's and married. But logic will tell kids that if their friends are doing it they should as well.
    Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

    “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
    but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


    Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Thekla View Post
      See my siggy and you will know why I felt it necessary to reply to your post.

      “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
      but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


      I have had miracles happen in my life and in those of people I know. Prayers that have been answered before I even prayed. So often these things are written off by coincidence by others, especially those who say they are atheists.

      Actions which need to be done that seem to be dangerous or odd will remain undone if one acts on logic instead of stepping out in faith.

      Heroics are often based on faith not logic.

      When it comes to the Bible faith is needed for understanding. Logic is indeed necessary to understand what it in the Bible but we must also logically concede that we are not as smart as God and our understanding is not based on omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience. An easier example, the logic of a mentally or physically handicapped person will not be the same as that of a physically fit genius. The logic of a 90 year old is not the same as that of a teen.The logic of a person who has been through hell on earth is not the same as that of someone who has lived a life of luxury.

      So everyone will look at the Bible with different logic. None of us are the same mentally. Some people believe that the flood is true, some a story, I lean toward true but shrug my shoulders and say that the meaning of the story what is truly important and don't waste a lot of time arguing the scientific possibility that it actually happened.

      Stepping out in faith helps us be good. I do not get drunk, commit adultery nor did I fornicate as a young woman, steal or commit other sins because logic tells me that if God doesn't want me to do these things they are not good for me to do. I didn't even know what oral sex was until I was in my mid-20's and married. But logic will tell kids that if their friends are doing it they should as well.
      We are told to love the Lord of Our God with our Mind too.

      Who said, ""You can lead a Saint to knowledge, but you can't make him think."?
      Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
        We are told to love the Lord of Our God with our Mind too.

        Who said, ""You can lead a Saint to knowledge, but you can't make him think."?
        I didn't say you couldn't. My point is sometimes one must step out and act in faith not logic. I have a Jewish friend whose parents were hid by Roman Catholics on Polish farms during WWII. That is not logical. It put the people who hid them and their families in danger. They acted in faith and so my friend lives.
        Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

        “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
        but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


        Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Thekla View Post
          ...

          “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
          but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


          ...

          Heroics are often based on faith not logic.
          Never on logic. (for all the references and examples, BY FAITH, see YHVH'S WORD)

          This is TRUTH as YHVH SAYS in HIS WORD:

          "Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has"

          Some trust in chariots , and some in horses, but WE (ecclesia OT and NT) will depend on the NAME of YHVH ELOHIM ('the LORD our GOD') .....

          All the best of mankind's wisdom and knowledges is trash and is opposed to YHVH, opposed to JESUS, opposed to anyone's SALVATION.

          Whatever is born of the flesh, is flesh and profits NOTHING.

          Whatever is born of the SPIRIT IS SPIRIT, and produces LIFE (Healing, Salvation, Goodness of YHVH) ....

          Immeasurable, without measure, beyond comprehension !

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jethro77 View Post

            Never on logic. (for all the references and examples, BY FAITH, see YHVH'S WORD)

            This is TRUTH as YHVH SAYS in HIS WORD:

            "Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has"

            Some trust in chariots , and some in horses, but WE (ecclesia OT and NT) will depend on the NAME of YHVH ELOHIM ('the LORD our GOD') .....

            All the best of mankind's wisdom and knowledges is trash and is opposed to YHVH, opposed to JESUS, opposed to anyone's SALVATION.

            Whatever is born of the flesh, is flesh and profits NOTHING.

            Whatever is born of the SPIRIT IS SPIRIT, and produces LIFE (Healing, Salvation, Goodness of YHVH) ....

            Immeasurable, without measure, beyond comprehension !
            I agree nice post
            Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

            “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
            but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


            Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
              Should we use logic?
              Sure, but using MAN'S Logic will get you in deep Doo, while using God's Logic won't, and knowing the difference is key.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Thekla View Post
                See my siggy and you will know why I felt it necessary to reply to your post.

                “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
                but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ¯ Martin Luther

                Hi Thekla, Further to your comments, your post is evidence that you are using reason to communicate. Whether you acknowledge it or not you are reasoning with us in an attempt to have your view considered a reasonable one. By using letters, and words, and sentences, and grammar, and language in your effort to communicate you are exhibiting logic, as indeed all of us making use of the internet are. Not only is the technology we use created with logic, and designed to function with logic,we are created in God's image with the ability to use logic. The sin is in using logic contrary to God's will, and in idolising logic and reason, and in trying to use logic where faith is required. Just because Luther expressed a point of view doesn't make it an infallible rule.

                Interesting discussion.
                Last edited by Eckyles; 08-30-18, 08:15 PM. Reason: wording
                Who among us is eternally sentient of the past, present, and future except Christ Himself.
                Colossians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Eckyles View Post

                  Hi Thekla, Further to your comments, your post is evidence that you are using reason to communicate. Whether you acknowledge it or not you are reasoning with us in an attempt to have your view considered a reasonable one. By using letters, and words, and sentences, and grammar, and language in your effort to communicate you are exhibiting logic, as indeed all of us making use of the internet are. Not only is the technology we use created with logic, and designed to function with logic,we are created in God's image with the ability to use logic. The sin is in using logic contrary to God's will, and in idolising logic and reason, and in trying to use logic where faith is required. Just because Luther expressed a point of view doesn't make it an infallible rule.

                  Interesting discussion.
                  I don't think I ever said that Luther was infallible. Who is? Your underlined sentence is pretty much how I understand what Luther wrote. When I write to an atheist I can usually understand what they are saying, unless they are talking about a scientific fact that I don't understand. In truth, they have more faith in science than I have in Christ.(Shame on me for that)

                  The reason I say this is that Jesus does not change. I may change, my understanding may change so my faith in Christ may change. I would say that as I age my faith in Christ grows. However, they do not seem to see that science can change because it was in error and it may change other scientific teachings. So this year they might believe in something and next year it may be wrong.
                  Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

                  “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
                  but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


                  Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

                  Comment

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