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Jewish fathers, Christian sons

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  • Jewish fathers, Christian sons

    A Jewish father was concerned about his son who was about a year away from his Bar Mitzvah but was sorely lacking in his knowledge of the Jewish faith.

    To remedy this he sent his son to Israel to experience his heritage. A year later the young man returned home. “Father, thank you for sending me to the land of our Fathers,” the son said. “It was wonderful and enlightening, however, I must confess that while in Israel I converted to Christianity.”

    “Oy vey,” replied the father, “what have I done?”

    So in the tradition of the patriarchs he went to his best friend and sought his advice and solace. “It is amazing that you should come to me,”
    stated his friend, “I too sent my son to Israel and he returned a Christian.”

    So in the traditions of the patriarchs they went to the Rabbi. “It is amazing that you should come to me,” stated the Rabbi, “I too sent my son
    to Israel and he returned a Christian. What is happening to our sons? Brothers, we must take this to God,” said the Rabbi. They fell to their
    knees and began to wail and pour out their hearts to the Almighty.

    As they prayed the clouds above opened and a mighty voice stated, “Amazing that you should come to Me. I, too, sent My Son to Israel.”
    "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Jn.14:6.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Quasar View Post
    A Jewish father was concerned about his son who was about a year away from his Bar Mitzvah but was sorely lacking in his knowledge of the Jewish faith.

    To remedy this he sent his son to Israel to experience his heritage. A year later the young man returned home. “Father, thank you for sending me to the land of our Fathers,” the son said. “It was wonderful and enlightening, however, I must confess that while in Israel I converted to Christianity.”

    “Oy vey,” replied the father, “what have I done?”

    So in the tradition of the patriarchs he went to his best friend and sought his advice and solace. “It is amazing that you should come to me,”
    stated his friend, “I too sent my son to Israel and he returned a Christian.”

    So in the traditions of the patriarchs they went to the Rabbi. “It is amazing that you should come to me,” stated the Rabbi, “I too sent my son
    to Israel and he returned a Christian. What is happening to our sons? Brothers, we must take this to God,” said the Rabbi. They fell to their
    knees and began to wail and pour out their hearts to the Almighty.

    As they prayed the clouds above opened and a mighty voice stated, “Amazing that you should come to Me. I, too, sent My Son to Israel.”
    Cute. The ironic thing is that Je-sus was not a Christian nor established this new religion.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Nachshon View Post
      Cute. The ironic thing is that Je-sus was not a Christian nor established this new religion.
      The ironic thing is that comments like the above don't recognize or acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ and that it is one LORD, one GOD, one baptism and one faith from Genesis through Revelation.
      Test all things and praise God from whom all blessings flow!

      Peace,
      BJ -Bear
      VDMA (1 Peter 1:25)
      WELS

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post
        The ironic thing is that comments like the above don't recognize or acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ and that it is one LORD, one GOD, one baptism and one faith from Genesis through Revelation.
        You're right. I don't acknowledge Je-sus as anything. So, what's your point? Starting from Gen 1:1 bereshit bara elokim, singular Go-d creating.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Nachshon View Post
          You're right. I don't acknowledge Je-sus as anything. So, what's your point?

          Hence the irony.

          Originally posted by Nachshon View Post
          Starting from Gen 1:1 bereshit bara elokim, singular Go-d creating.
          At least we agree that there is only one God. Check out Isaiah 53.
          Test all things and praise God from whom all blessings flow!

          Peace,
          BJ -Bear
          VDMA (1 Peter 1:25)
          WELS

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post
            Hence the irony.



            At least we agree that there is only one God. Check out Isaiah 53.
            Isa 53 doesn't speak about Go-d, hence the irony.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Nachshon View Post
              Isa 53 doesn't speak about Go-d, hence the irony.

              Isa.53 is about Y'Shua and is the tip of the iceberg, who was begotten by God, the Holy Spirit, as recorded in Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35, making Him the Son of God! The Scriptures refute you! Review the following for more:

              http://www.ichthus.info/CaseForChris...iah/intro.html


              Quasar
              "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Jn.14:6.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Quasar View Post
                Isa.53 is about Y'Shua and is the tip of the iceberg, who was begotten by God, the Holy Spirit, as recorded in Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35, making Him the Son of God! The Scriptures refute you! Review the following for more:

                http://www.ichthus.info/CaseForChris...iah/intro.html


                Quasar
                Isa 7:14 says nothing about the holy spirit involved in the child's birth. Also, please notice that the virgin/maiden is already pregnant/has conceived, hara, showing that the child was born during King Ahaz's timeframe, not 700+ years in the future. So, Je-sus is not the fulfillment, nor was their any messianic expectations for a messiah being born from a virgin, or being The Go-d.

                The sign was for King Ahaz and the house of David, Isa 7:10-17, not for Je-sus' generation.

                You see, only in Isa 7:14 do we see a complete change in verb form for hara to support Christian expectations in english translations, http://biblehub.com/hebrew/harah_2030.htm.

                The same prophecy you claim refutes you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would like to make comments for above your viewpoints, the way to judge whether Jesus was the messianic expectation is to see whether there is the working of the Holy Spirit when Jesus started to do His work, and whether there is the truth expressed in His word, whom He testified, and what He brought to man. After Jesus went into the heaven, the Holy Spirit worked strongly which made the gospel to spread unto the uttermost part of the earth even if the whole world resisted it dramatically at first. This is exactly as the bible says ”Now I tell you, withdraw from these men, and leave them alone. For if this counsel or this work is of men, it will be overthrown. But if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow it, and you would be found even to be fighting against God!” in Acts 5:38 & 39. Based on this, Jesus is God. One God, One Holy Spirit. thanks for you reviewing in advance.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Juliana Gerald View Post
                    I would like to make comments for above your viewpoints, the way to judge whether Jesus was the messianic expectation is to see whether there is the working of the Holy Spirit when Jesus started to do His work, and whether there is the truth expressed in His word, whom He testified, and what He brought to man. After Jesus went into the heaven, the Holy Spirit worked strongly which made the gospel to spread unto the uttermost part of the earth even if the whole world resisted it dramatically at first. This is exactly as the bible says ”Now I tell you, withdraw from these men, and leave them alone. For if this counsel or this work is of men, it will be overthrown. But if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow it, and you would be found even to be fighting against God!” in Acts 5:38 & 39. Based on this, Jesus is God. One God, One Holy Spirit. thanks for you reviewing in advance.
                    This is all very nice, but it doesn't answer the questions I raised, does it?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hello Nachshon,
                      Sorry for my late reply. Hope my below viewpoints answer you.
                      Firstly, whether Jesus is the fulfillment of prophecy is not determined from the literal meaning of word or word verb form. The bible says “not of the letter, but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life” in Corinthians 3:6. Take an example, Joseph dreamed a dream in which the sun and the moon and eleven stars bowed down to him. Eventually, what man see is that his eleven brothers went to him for things to eat and bowed down to him when the famine happened. The prophecy was fulfilled at that time. As long as it is related to prophecy, we should not determine from literal meaning. If so, we will not miss God's current work and fall behind God's footsteps.
                      Secondly, whether Jesus is God's incarnated flesh (the son of God) is to see who He testify, the substance of people’s believing in God is actually believing in God’s Spirit. Even though they believe in God’s incarnated flesh (Jesus), it is because this flesh is the embodiment of God’s Spirit. That is to say, such believing is still believing in the Spirit. The Spirit and the flesh are different, but because this flesh is from the Spirit and is the flesh the Word becomes, what they believe in is still God’s original substance. We also refer to the bible verses, “I and the Father are one” John 10 and “Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.”Matthew 18:14.
                      Thirdly, we can see if Jesus' word is truth, truth means the life disposition of the normal humanity and is what God required of man when he first created man, that is, all the normal humanity (including human sense, insight, wisdom, and the common sense in conducting oneself). When man can't obey by the laws of Yahweh, God was incarnated into flesh becoming a person Jesus, He brought love into this world and taught man to love others as ourselves. Love is the need of everyone in both family and working place.
                      Based on these ones, can we acknowledge Jesus is God?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Juliana Gerald View Post
                        Hello Nachshon,
                        Sorry for my late reply. Hope my below viewpoints answer you.
                        Firstly, whether Jesus is the fulfillment of prophecy is not determined from the literal meaning of word or word verb form. The bible says “not of the letter, but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life” in Corinthians 3:6. Take an example, Joseph dreamed a dream in which the sun and the moon and eleven stars bowed down to him. Eventually, what man see is that his eleven brothers went to him for things to eat and bowed down to him when the famine happened. The prophecy was fulfilled at that time. As long as it is related to prophecy, we should not determine from literal meaning. If so, we will not miss God's current work and fall behind God's footsteps.
                        Secondly, whether Jesus is God's incarnated flesh (the son of God) is to see who He testify, the substance of people’s believing in God is actually believing in God’s Spirit. Even though they believe in God’s incarnated flesh (Jesus), it is because this flesh is the embodiment of God’s Spirit. That is to say, such believing is still believing in the Spirit. The Spirit and the flesh are different, but because this flesh is from the Spirit and is the flesh the Word becomes, what they believe in is still God’s original substance. We also refer to the bible verses, “I and the Father are one” John 10 and “Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.”Matthew 18:14.
                        Thirdly, we can see if Jesus' word is truth, truth means the life disposition of the normal humanity and is what God required of man when he first created man, that is, all the normal humanity (including human sense, insight, wisdom, and the common sense in conducting oneself). When man can't obey by the laws of Yahweh, God was incarnated into flesh becoming a person Jesus, He brought love into this world and taught man to love others as ourselves. Love is the need of everyone in both family and working place.
                        Based on these ones, can we acknowledge Jesus is God?
                        Sorry, you have to answer Isa 7:14 first. The above is a good excuse when your candidate can't fulfill a prophecy. Je-sus is not Go-d. You can't move to step 2 without passing step 1.
                        Last edited by Nachshon; 11-01-15, 04:57 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Jewish fathers, Christian sons

                          Originally posted by Nachshon View Post
                          Sorry, you have to answer Isa 7:14 first. The above is a good excuse when your candidate can't fulfill a prophecy. Je-sus is not Go-d. You can't move to step 2 without passing step 1.
                          For me, I think that I already answered you. I would like to know your viewpoints about God's work. Will God's salvation work stop at laws?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Juliana Gerald View Post
                            For me, I think that I already answered you. I would like to know your viewpoints about God's work. Will God's salvation work stop at laws?
                            You haven't. Please answer why there is a change of verb form for hara only for Isa 7:14, and then why we find the same issue for Isa 9:6 with yulad. It's all pretty basic.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nachshon View Post
                              You haven't. Please answer why there is a change of verb form for hara only for Isa 7:14, and then why we find the same issue for Isa 9:6 with yulad. It's all pretty basic.
                              Sorry for my late reply. Let us leave aside above question, because our viewpoints are not identical, finally there will be no end. I'd like to ask you one question. Based on your above viewpoints, you don't agree that Jesus is the fulfillment of prophecy. Messiah is not coming, right? However, we know the God created man with His will, He had a eager desire to gain people who can be of one heart and one mind with him, became eager to gain people who can carry out his will on earth, and even wanted to gain a group of people who can break free from the forces of darkness and be free from satan’s bondage and who can testify him on earth, not a group of people who only enjoy God's grace or obey God's law. So, the work of God continues to advance, and though the purpose of His work remains unchanging. So, will you consider that God still haven't done others work? The means by which He works are constantly changing, and thereby so are those who follow God. The more work of God, the more thoroughly man comes to know God, and the disposition of man changes accordingly along with His work. To gain such a group of people was what God had been expecting for a long time and was what he had been hoping for since the creation of the world. God want to gain a group of people who can know his disposition and understand his will and who can worship him. If God's work stay in the law, can people know Him? If we can know what the goal of God's management plan is, we will not fix the attention on the word verb form, right? Kindly make your comments.

                              Comment

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