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John T Have you ever asked for the positive reasons Adventists have for their belief?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by TheWholeGospel View Post
    There is no expiration date on spiritual gifts.
    Ephe 4:8 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
    11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
    13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


    Now, regarding the future projection of the gift of prophecy, see Revelation 12:17; 19:10; 22:9.
    You have STILL not addressed where in Scripture Paul says that the gifts of prophecy are for the future."

    Originally Posted by TheWholeGospel

    I have one simple response: The giving of the gift of prophecy is not past in the statements of Paul.
    Obviously, you neglected to read this part of my post, which shows things in context

    .
    Hebrews 1:1:3 does not mention anyone prophesying anything after the writing of the NT
    .
    Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
    .
    Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
    ...
    . 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
    .
    Revelation 19: 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. 1
    10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
    11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war
    I .
    I defy you to find ANYTHING in those verses which come straight from the KJV, and straight of the "Scripture supports" that you guys use to support EGW doing any prophesying.

    Face it Kevin the work of the leaders to concoct those things is popycock. iT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYONE ELSE being a prophet. Therefore, from your OWN sources, there is NO support for FB 18.

    Why are your leaders trying to pull the wool over your eyes on that one?
    And if they are trying to foll you there, there is almost a 100% guarantee that they are trying to fool you and other SDA people elsewhere. Don't cha think?
    MY FOUR APOLOGETIC AXIOMS

    1. Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time

    2. We attack lies so others will see the truth; that is proof of our love for all cultists, not our hatred .

    3. Inconsistency is a tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult

    4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire







    Comment


    • #32
      Attempt one: only OT, Attempt two: maybe NT; Attempt three: Jesus negates

      Originally posted by john t View Post
      You have STILL not addressed where in Scripture Paul says that the gifts of prophecy are for the future."
      They are for the church. PERIOD. If you claim an expiration date for them, you will need to demonstrate why Paul's statement is relegated only to the past. The context does not indicate they are only for the past.

      Ephe 4:11 (KJV) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
      12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
      13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
      Obviously, you neglected to read this part of my post, which shows things in context
      The context does not put an expiration date on the gifts of the Spirit. In fact, it shows their ultimate goal has not YET been reached.

      And now we move on to your THIRD attempt to negate what the New Testament says about the gift of prophecy. Here you go:

      .
      Hebrews 1:1:3 does not mention anyone prophesying anything after the writing of the NT
      .
      Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
      2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
      3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
      .
      The passage doesn't deal with any of the prophets in the New Testament OR Paul's statements about them. However, by your logic, the New Testament prophets weren't divinely inspired or to be heeded. That would be a misuse of the passage. Hebrews 1 is simply pointing to the greater revelation of God through Jesus over the revelation given by prophets of the Old Testament.

      Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
      ...
      . 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
      17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
      .
      Revelation 19: 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. 1
      10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
      11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war
      I .
      I defy you to find ANYTHING in those verses which come straight from the KJV, and straight of the "Scripture supports" that you guys use to support EGW doing any prophesying.
      Open thine eyes, John. These are prophecies that take the church to the end of time.

      Face it Kevin the work of the leaders to concoct those things is popycock. iT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYONE ELSE being a prophet. Therefore, from your OWN sources, there is NO support for FB 18.
      You deny what the passage says and then ask me to follow your lead. I am sorry, John, but the New Testament does not limit the gift of prophecy to the Old Testament (your first contention), does not limit the gift of prophecy to the time of Paul (your second contention), nor does it cut off the gift of prophecy by Jesus' revelation (your third contention). The Spirit gives gifts according to His will (1 Cor. 12:11).

      Why are your leaders trying to pull the wool over your eyes on that one?
      You haven't listened to what the Scriptures say but have superimposed your first notion on them until I pushed you to widen your understanding by showing that the passages about the gift of prophecy are in the PRESENT. Then you tried to manufacture a test from Hebrews 1, and that supposed test would disallow all the prophets of the New Testament. I am sorry, John, but that will not do. Jesus speaks through "His servants the prophets"; they are possessed by "the Spirit of prophecy," which is "the testimony of Jesus" (Rev. 10:7; 19:10).

      Either you accept that God has promised to send prophets to His church when the Spirit chooses or you have your own standard apart from Scripture.

      And if they are trying to foll you there, there is almost a 100% guarantee that they are trying to fool you and other SDA people elsewhere. Don't cha think?
      I know what the Scriptures say. I have posted what the Scriptures say. I stick by them.
      Last edited by TheWholeGospel; 10-13-15, 09:46 AM.
      "I want the truth!"
      "You can't handle the truth!"

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by TheWholeGospel View Post
        They are for the church. PERIOD. If you claim an expiration date for them,

        The context does not put an expiration date on the gifts of the Spirit.

        And now we move on to your THIRD attempt to negate what the New Testament says about the gift of prophecy. Here you go:

        Open thine eyes, John. These are prophecies that take the church to the end of time.

        You deny what the passage says and then ask me to follow your lead.

        Either you accept that God has promised to send prophets to His church when the Spirit chooses or you have your own standard apart from Scripture.

        I know what the Scriptures say. I have posted what the Scriptures say. I stick by them.
        I have many objections to all of that.

        Will respond later
        MY FOUR APOLOGETIC AXIOMS

        1. Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time

        2. We attack lies so others will see the truth; that is proof of our love for all cultists, not our hatred .

        3. Inconsistency is a tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult

        4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire







        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by john t View Post
          I have many objections to all of that.
          Yes, of course you do. The only question is whether the Scriptures disagree with what I have stated--not you.

          Will respond later
          I believe you have in the public thread.
          "I want the truth!"
          "You can't handle the truth!"

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by john t View Post
            I have many objections to all of that.

            Will respond later
            You wrote this in October of 2015. It is now June of 2016. When will "later" come?
            "I want the truth!"
            "You can't handle the truth!"

            Comment


            • #36
              Private Debate with two people/post removed
              Last edited by CARM Admin; 10-13-17, 09:57 PM.
              It does not help much to dwell on those things you did or did not do in the past. At the time, you did the very best you could, given your knowledge, and experience.

              Comment

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