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A Purpose Driven Life

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  • A Purpose Driven Life

    What is wrong with Rick Warren's theology? Ive seen alot of online websites accusing him of heresay but nothing in depth? Others say hes a false teacher but what are specifics? I do agree with his critics on one thing. His book doesnt call for repentance of sins, as far as I know.
    Sometimes people want a complex answer to the hard questions to satisfy intellectuality. Jesus is Lord is the simple, beautiful truth.

  • #2
    I don't have a problem with Rick.

    Check out his short video. Lifeway use to sell copied of the CD that contained songs on it for only a $1.00. Many of us used this as an evangelism tool. Some of the songs were from Casting Crowns, Amy Grant and the like.

    http://www.theinvitation.tv/legacy/

    If you are familiar with the ABCs of Salvation that is pretty much what he is teaching. Admit, Believe, Confess/Commit
    Last edited by Joker; 06-07-13, 07:56 AM.
    #Ephesians1SalvationBenefitsPackage


    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Charlie View Post
      What is wrong with Rick Warren's theology? Ive seen alot of online websites accusing him of heresay but nothing in depth? Others say hes a false teacher but what are specifics? I do agree with his critics on one thing. His book doesnt call for repentance of sins, as far as I know.
      I don't find that particular book very substantive. I found the book very simplistic, like pablum (baby food). That has been the uniform response from other older Christians I know who have read the book. The only people who I know loved the book (and it seems to be all or nothing in terms of appreciation) were new or young believers.

      More problematic for Warren (and McLaren and the emergent church in general) is the tendency toward antinomianism and an affinity for social justice, which is nothing more than Marxism in disguise. Leftist social justice that undermines property rights is not Biblical or godly justice. There is also the tendency to over-emphasize grace at the expense of God's sovereignty. This is an undercurrent prevalent in the body of Christ throughout America and can be seen in people as diverse as MacArthur and Yancey. God is most certainly a God of grace, mercy, and love, but He is also a God of law, justice, and consequence. Emphasizing one half without equally asserting and understanding the other amounts to idolatry. I wouldn't go so far as to say Warran is idolatrous but it's not the whole gospel, imo.

      The book is a fair 40 day program for spiritual improvement. Some people need that kind of structure and guidance and in that regard the book can serve a purpose. However, the books expliclty plays to the warm and fuzzy and not the reality of sin and human depravity. It is true humans were made for God's pleasure (Purpose 1) and our relationship with God should be pleasant but the truth and reality iswe don't please God and He doesn't take pleasure in sin and that's not discussed in the book. When Warren discusses "what pleases God?" he goes right to trusting and worshiping God but there is no mention of trusting God in acknowledging ad repenting of the the sin that separates us from God but dispositionally and operationally. I find he also takes liberties with scripture; he renders Gal. 4:7b to say that because we are children of God everything belongs to us. I find the statement, "Life without love is worthless," a bit problematic We clearly had sufficient value while we were yet sinners for God to send His son. I find there is a lot to commend in the book but some things to be concerned over, too. I've recently been considering going through the book with my fourteen year old as a means of developing his faith and I think that is a poignant appraisal of the book in and of itself: it's something suitable for a teenager and a teenager accompanied by a mature adult. If I do use the book, you can be assured I will be having a much more substantive conversations with him than that found in the pages of the book by itself and we will carry Bible in hand to test the claims made therein. I cannot imagine a group study in an local congregation that didn't discuss and do more than the pablum in that book.
      All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

      “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

      Comment


      • #4
        Remember Rick Warren is the one who took the heat over Prop 9 in CA. Not what you can call a tendency toward antinomianism.

        I also don't believe Warren is part of the ECM. The EC teaches the bible not the inspired word of God without error and our final source in faith and work. Warren hold to the Baptist Faith and Message and stands firm on the doctrine of inspriation.

        I consider Rick to be Seeker Sensative not EC. I put Rick next to Andy Stanley. They tend to speak to a younger non religious group who have very negative attitudes towards Christan in generals. Most of their concerts viewed Chrisitans and the church as hypocrits, biggots, mean, judgmental, haters, holier than thou who are also anal retentive, LOL
        Last edited by Joker; 06-07-13, 08:50 AM.
        #Ephesians1SalvationBenefitsPackage


        He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Joker View Post
          Remember Rick Warren is the one who took the heat over Prop 9 in CA.
          I don't think standing up for victims' rights is particularly noteworthy for a Christian. I do think that standing up for what's right amidst criticism is to be expected given scripture's promise of persecution, and commendable because so few do. But isn't that Christian sop? Personally, I find Prop 8's attempt to provide restitution much more scriptural than Prop 9 retributional approach, I concede a certain ignorance of the details of both props.
          Originally posted by Joker View Post
          Not what you can call a tendency toward antinomianism.
          Even the sociopath complains when struck.
          Originally posted by Joker View Post
          I also don't believe Warren is part of the ECM. The EC teaches the bible not the inspired word of God without error and our final source in faith and work. Warren hold to the Baptist Faith and Message and stands firm on the doctrine of inspiration.
          Well, let's clarify something: the op specifically asks about "The Purpose Driven Life." That is what I wrote about. I don't know Warren, the man. I read of his missionary service and commend him for his hands-on example (where many solicitors don't go anywhere and some build amusement parks). I don't think adhering to a denom faith at the expense of a more holistic faith in God and His word is particularly noteworthy or commendable but I guess if you're going to do such a thing the "Baptist Faith" (whatever that is apart from God and Christ) is as good as any. I think standing on God's word as inpsired is also commendable.

          The problem is that's not explicitly evident or particularly expounded upon in "The Purpose Driven Life." How would anyone know those things from that book? If you were to write a book to aide others in their spiritual development would you neglect that and the concerns I mentioned? I would not (and I think anyone here can see that in the manner of my posts in this forum ).
          Originally posted by Joker View Post
          I consider Rick to be Seeker Sensative not EC.
          Do you consider Jesus or Paul, or Peter, or James "Seeker Sensitive"? If not, then to the degree that Warren is different then he is not Christ-like. I'm not saying we should all be cookie-cutter Christians. God likes diversity; no tow of the 7 billion people on the planet are identical (but what would be the scriptural basis of "seeker sensitivity," and what justifies its emphasis over the hard truths of scriptural reality? Can you see Warren reciting Edward's "Sinners in the hands..." sermon? If not, then what does that say?
          Originally posted by Joker View Post
          I put Rick next to Andy Stanley. They tend to speak to a younger non religious group who have very negative attitudes towards Christan in generals. Most of their concerts viewed Christians and the church as hypocrites, ******, mean, judgmental, haters, holier than thou who are also anal retentive, LOL
          Well, there's some truth to that. I particularly appreciated David Kinnamon's book, "UnChristian" and recommend it to all. The problem is that such "concerts" don't speak to the hypocrisy, bigotry, meanness... etc. of those young people hearing the hate. The truth is that we Christians live our lives between the poles of hypocrisy and legalism and struggle to find the healthy middle where integrity and true standards exist. That can be done only in Christ and only in a life where confession, repentance, restitution, forgiveness, and reconciliation are daily occurrences. At the risk of sounding holier-than-thou, when I hear/read Warren speaking to that in a meaningful, substantive, and truthful manner I'll adjust my thinking accordingly. Had I read such content in The Purpose Driven Life my reply to the op would have read accordingly. Warren the man may be an exemplary believer but that book is pablum, imho.
          All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

          “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

          Comment


          • #6
            To answer your question Yes I believe Jesus was very seeker sensative.

            I like the way Andy Stanley put it. "We are married to the message not the method"
            Last edited by Joker; 06-07-13, 04:57 PM.
            #Ephesians1SalvationBenefitsPackage


            He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot

            Comment


            • #7
              John Piper Interviews Rick Warren on Doctrine

              byJohn Piper|May 27, 2011


              http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/post...en-on-doctrine


              This 98 minute interview that I did with Rick Warren was recorded on May 1, 2011, during the Desiring God Regional Conference at Saddleback Church. It's the fulfillment of a commitment we made when Rick was not able to come in person to the Desiring God National Conference in Minneapolis in October, 2010.

              The nature of the interview is mainly doctrinal. I read Rick’s The Purpose Driven Life with great care. I brought 20 pages of quotes and questions to the interview. You will hear me quote the book dozens of times. With these quotes as a starting point I dig into Rick’s mind and heart on all the issues listed below (with the times that they begin on the video).

              My aim in this interview is to bring out and clarify what Rick Warren believes about these biblical doctrines.

              In doing this my hope is that the thousands of pastors and lay people who look to Rick for inspiration and wisdom will see the profound place that doctrine has in his mind and heart.

              Rick is not known for being a doctrinal preacher. One reason for this is his intention to be theologically sound and practically helpful without using doctrinal or theological terms in his public ministry. Inside of Saddleback there is a greater intentionality about building biblical and theological categories into the people’s minds and hearts.

              Near the end of the interview, with great respect and appreciation for the stewardship of influence that Rick carries, I exhort him and pray for him that God will make the final chapter of his ministry a deepening one, that leaves a legacy of biblical and doctrinal truth more explicitly and firmly in the minds and hearts of the generations that will follow him.

              Rick and I are very different in methodological instincts and inclinations. I take almost the exact opposite approach in preaching—wanting to make the theological categories explicit and to show how I got them from the text. But then I am not even close to the fruitful evangelist that Rick is.

              We both have chosen risky ways. There are pitfalls of short- and long-term unfruitfulness. But in the end we do not govern the impact of our lives. God does. We do what the Bible and our hearts call us to do. I believe Rick’s is a faithful heart. Listen to the clarity of his doctrinal commitments and hear the heartbeat of his love for Christ and those perishing without him.

              Let this remarkable testimony of faith send you down into the Word of God for a deeper understanding of God and his ways. Here are the topics we tackle and when they begin on the video.

              Introduction
              3:29 The glory of God.
              7:16 David Wells and the weight of God’s reality.
              9:00 Would you write the book the same today?
              12:00 The sovereignty of God.
              18:47 How do you speak of God’s sovereignty in the presence of tragedy?
              22:01 How do all things work for bad for those who reject Christ?
              24:14 Do you hedge on Larry King?
              27:00 Unconditional election.
              30:18 The importance of eternity.
              34:42 How do you conceive of eternity: in heaven, on earth?
              38:53 What is the Gospel?
              42:00 What did Jesus achieve on the cross?
              43:40 Repentance.
              50:50 Why don’t you call yourself a Calvinist?
              53:09 Propitiation.
              54:39 Prevenient grace.
              1:00:01 Total depravity.
              1:03:00 Hell.
              1:09:10 Eternal destiny of those who never heard.
              1:12:40 The extent of the atonement.
              1:17:00 Do unbelievers always do the devil’s bidding?
              1:18:40 Your view of the Bible.
              1:22:40 Expository preaching and doctrinal depth.
              1:28:10 Rick Warren’s sacred trust.
              Last edited by Joker; 06-07-13, 05:29 PM.
              #Ephesians1SalvationBenefitsPackage


              He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Joker View Post
                John Piper Interviews Rick Warren on Doctrine

                byJohn Piper|May 27, 2011


                http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/post...en-on-doctrine


                This 98 minute interview that I did with Rick Warren was recorded on May 1, 2011, during the Desiring God Regional Conference at Saddleback Church. It's the fulfillment of a commitment we made when Rick was not able to come in person to the Desiring God National Conference in Minneapolis in October, 2010.

                The nature of the interview is mainly doctrinal. I read Rick’s The Purpose Driven Life with great care. I brought 20 pages of quotes and questions to the interview. You will hear me quote the book dozens of times. With these quotes as a starting point I dig into Rick’s mind and heart on all the issues listed below (with the times that they begin on the video).

                My aim in this interview is to bring out and clarify what Rick Warren believes about these biblical doctrines.

                In doing this my hope is that the thousands of pastors and lay people who look to Rick for inspiration and wisdom will see the profound place that doctrine has in his mind and heart.

                Rick is not known for being a doctrinal preacher. One reason for this is his intention to be theologically sound and practically helpful without using doctrinal or theological terms in his public ministry. Inside of Saddleback there is a greater intentionality about building biblical and theological categories into the people’s minds and hearts.

                Near the end of the interview, with great respect and appreciation for the stewardship of influence that Rick carries, I exhort him and pray for him that God will make the final chapter of his ministry a deepening one, that leaves a legacy of biblical and doctrinal truth more explicitly and firmly in the minds and hearts of the generations that will follow him.

                Rick and I are very different in methodological instincts and inclinations. I take almost the exact opposite approach in preaching—wanting to make the theological categories explicit and to show how I got them from the text. But then I am not even close to the fruitful evangelist that Rick is.

                We both have chosen risky ways. There are pitfalls of short- and long-term unfruitfulness. But in the end we do not govern the impact of our lives. God does. We do what the Bible and our hearts call us to do. I believe Rick’s is a faithful heart. Listen to the clarity of his doctrinal commitments and hear the heartbeat of his love for Christ and those perishing without him.

                Let this remarkable testimony of faith send you down into the Word of God for a deeper understanding of God and his ways. Here are the topics we tackle and when they begin on the video.

                Introduction
                3:29 The glory of God.
                7:16 David Wells and the weight of God’s reality.
                9:00 Would you write the book the same today?
                12:00 The sovereignty of God.
                18:47 How do you speak of God’s sovereignty in the presence of tragedy?
                22:01 How do all things work for bad for those who reject Christ?
                24:14 Do you hedge on Larry King?
                27:00 Unconditional election.
                30:18 The importance of eternity.
                34:42 How do you conceive of eternity: in heaven, on earth?
                38:53 What is the Gospel?
                42:00 What did Jesus achieve on the cross?
                43:40 Repentance.
                50:50 Why don’t you call yourself a Calvinist?
                53:09 Propitiation.
                54:39 Prevenient grace.
                1:00:01 Total depravity.
                1:03:00 Hell.
                1:09:10 Eternal destiny of those who never heard.
                1:12:40 The extent of the atonement.
                1:17:00 Do unbelievers always do the devil’s bidding?
                1:18:40 Your view of the Bible.
                1:22:40 Expository preaching and doctrinal depth.
                1:28:10 Rick Warren’s sacred trust.
                Thank you so much
                Sometimes people want a complex answer to the hard questions to satisfy intellectuality. Jesus is Lord is the simple, beautiful truth.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Joker View Post
                  To answer your question Yes I believe Jesus as very seeker sensative.
                  Mt. 23. Mt. 5:44-48, Mt. 19:21, Mt. 8:21, Mt. 13:47-50, Jn. 8:34-41, Jn. 12:25. I can think of dozens of statements that Jesus made that are not seeker sensitive.
                  Originally posted by Joker View Post
                  I like the way Andy Stanley put it. "We are married to the message not the method"
                  And the message inextricably has two sides: God is love and God is just. Truth comes in many wrappings and sometimes the wrapper is harsh. Truth is truth and it is always incumbent upon us to accept and embrace the truth no matter the package in which it comes. A nice package with half the truth is not the gospel.
                  All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

                  “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Joker View Post
                    John Piper Interviews Rick Warren on Doctrine.
                    Again, the op asks for commentary on the book, not a doctrinal appraisal of Rick Warren. I do not know the man. Having read the book, I (personally) find it weak. Warren's ability to engage substantively in a dedicated interview is encouraging and I am pleased to see that but it does not change my view of the book and I do not recommend it except for the most ignorant and least ambitious of new believers. For those with some moderate degree of knowledge and motivation I recommend "The Reason for God," by Timothy Keller, and for those who are very grounded and highly motivated (especially the more intellectual) I recommend Francis Schaeffer's trilogy.* Neither of those two tomes are perfect either, but imo they do a much better job of prompting growth than "The Purpose Driven Life." The emergent church is very influential but like the audience it serves it is not usually very well developed. Driscoll, McLaren, McKnight, Miller, Bell, Cole, Frost, Pagitt et al are wise to engage the culture and in that sense are progeny of writers like Schaeffer, but to the degree that they allow the culture to influence them I find them somewhat incomplete, antinomian, or acquiescent and often more style than substance. Perhaps I might have thought differently were I younger and reading them but approaching 50 (I'm 54 now) and reading them invariably prompted me to 1) pick up my Bible (a good effect) and 2) seek something more substantive like, Lewis, Newbigin, or Volf (which is a good effect but doesn't speak well of the impetus).

                    There are fundamental problems for contextual theology in a post post-modern culture and after a decade I don't see the emergent church meeting the relevant demands appropriately and "The Purpose Driven Life," imo, is a perfect ironic example. Like I said, I have a fourteen year old and we may read that book, but he's already read some Augustine, Sproul, and Lewis. I suspect Warren will be a walk in the park for him.

                    Clearly the book has its place because lots of people are reading it (40 mil?), and apparently to some good effect. Barna Polls laud it, church leaders of very diverse orientation praise and use it, and it even reported persuaded a murderous kidnapper to release his hostage. I wouldn't mind writing a book that well-read, profitable, and influential. However, as devotional-style books go I think Chambers, Spurgeon, Tozer, or Foster better, and more substantive and enduring.










                    *(there are others, like "Knowing God" by J. I. Packer, "The Normal Christian Life" by Watchman Nee, "Celebration of Discipline" by Richard Foster, maybe kempis, Lawrence, Wm Law, or Bonhoeffer but I find Keller amongst the most effective).
                    Last edited by Josheb; 06-07-13, 09:32 PM.
                    All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

                    “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Charlie View Post
                      Thank you so much
                      You are very welcome.
                      #Ephesians1SalvationBenefitsPackage


                      He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        the Purpose Driven Life is a great self help book, but it's weak in reconciling people with God, because there was not enough focus on a clear explaination of sin and the gospel.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nelster View Post
                          the Purpose Driven Life is a great self help book, but it's weak in reconciling people with God, because there was not enough focus on a clear explaination of sin and the gospel.
                          I'm curious; what makes it "great," iyo?
                          All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

                          “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What is exactly meant by purpose driven life?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FleXxxD View Post
                              What is exactly meant by purpose driven life?
                              As one who has had direct experience and was raised up in leadership in ppd churches, I can personally testify it translates to "driven" by the leaders' "vision", rather than being spirit-led. It is a formulaic approach to marketing the church to attract outsiders into our buildings, not BEING the church and making disciples out there in the world, as we go.

                              Cattle are driven. Sheep are led.
                              Last edited by christdependent; 10-20-14, 08:00 PM.
                              "For the eyes of the LORD move to and fro throughout the earth that He may strongly support those whose heart is completely His...." 2 Chronicles 16:9 NASB

                              Comment

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