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Mishandling the sleep -awake metaphor

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  • #31
    Tom

    Your new question

    "What is the absolute earliest that any of the people who happen to be alive and remaining on earth at the moment of the last trump can be caught up?"

    Is nothing the bible speaks of and appears to be another red herring

    If you have an argument to make go ahead and make it instead of looking for reasons to run away
    1 Thess 4:15
    15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

    See that.....the earliest that any of those who are alive and remaining can be caught up is AFTER all of the sleepers are dealt with.
    Here is Daniel getting his inheritance of eternal life...
    Dan 12
    13 “As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

    Now we have to determine WHEN the end of the world is: When the WORLD ends we have to assume the age would be over wouldn't you think?
    Hebrews 9
    26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
    Here again is the end of the world

    1 COR 10
    11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

    So the first time it was possible for those alive and remaining to be raised ti immortality was when Martha did it 2000 years ago.. well she must have been one of the first!!!

    noble


    Comment


    • #32
      Tom stated



      Your new question

      "What is the absolute earliest that any of the people who happen to be alive and remaining on earth at the moment of the last trump can be caught up?"

      Is nothing the bible speaks of and appears to be another red herring

      If you have an argument to make go ahead and make it instead of looking for reasons to run away


      Originally posted by noble View Post
      1 Thess 4:15
      15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord,
      will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.


      Tom replies

      No kidding your question was so poorly worded it was unclear what you were asking



      Originally posted by noble View Post
      See that.....the earliest that any of those who are alive and remaining can be caught up is AFTER all of the sleepers are dealt with.


      Tom replies

      So what ?

      1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

      It takes but a twinkling of an eye for the dead to be raised and the living changed

      Originally posted by noble View Post
      Here is Daniel getting his inheritance of eternal life...
      Dan 12
      13 “As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

      Now we have to determine WHEN the end of the world is: When the WORLD ends we have to assume the age would be over wouldn't you think?
      Hebrews 9
      26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once
      in the end of the world
      hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
      Here again is the end of the world

      1 COR 10
      11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the
      ends of the world are
      come.

      So the first time it was possible for those alive and remaining to be raised ti immortality was when Martha did it 2000 years ago.. well she must have been one of the first!!!


      noble

      [/QUOTE]

      Tom replies

      Note first Daniel does not use the phrase end of the world but the end of days

      Note second the Greek behind the phrase end of the world is really end of the aion (age)

      The KJV obscures things by translating two different words as world. The first word translated world is kosmos while the second word translated word is aion (age)

      The NSB translates more accurately here

      1Co 10:11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

      The age referenced is that of the old Testament economy

      So no all days did not end in 70 A.D.

      and you don't have an argument

      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

      Comment


      • #33
        TomL

        Is the KJV a bible or not, were all of the older forms of CHristianity developed from the KJV or earlier or not. Are you sure that is all the excuses you want to bring up to try and convince the readers that the end of the world/age/aion is in the first century?
        Are you aware that your song and dance doesn't get the end of the world/age/aion out of the first century?

        I see one of your comments in this post was that Daniel used end of days not end of world.... did you not see this?

        Now we have to determine WHEN the end of the world is: When the WORLD ends we have to assume the age would be over wouldn't you think?

        I see thru all this junk of yours fairly easily but why do you try to fool yourself??

        noble

        Comment


        • #34
          Tom in that post that you dipsy doodled around the meat of ..you also missed this:

          So the first time it was possible for those alive and remaining to be raised to immortality was when Martha did it 2000 years ago.. well she must have been one of the first!!!

          Any comments

          noble

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by noble View Post
            Tom in that post that you dipsy doodled around the meat of ..you also missed this:

            So the first time it was possible for those alive and remaining to be raised to immortality was when Martha did it 2000 years ago.. well she must have been one of the first!!!

            Any comments

            noble
            Tom replies

            sorry but the bible never states Martha was raised immortal.

            That is the Noble imagination speaking not the word of God
            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by TomL View Post

              Tom replies

              sorry but the bible never states Martha was raised immortal.

              That is the Noble imagination speaking not the word of God
              PSSSST.... never dying ...would be ....immortal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

              That is what immortality will do to a person!!!

              Oh AND YES we all die and then the judgment too... have you accepted that one yet?

              noble

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by noble View Post

                Is the KJV a bible or not, were all of the older forms of CHristianity developed from the KJV or earlier or not. Are you sure that is all the excuses you want to bring up to try and convince the readers that the end of the world/age/aion is in the first century?

                Tom replies

                The KJV is one of many bible versions

                Is the NASB not also a bible

                Have you not quoted from it when you preferred its translation

                So why the hypocrisy ?

                The fact however is the KJV translated aion (age) as world

                It did so in a verse where it had already translated Kosmos also as world

                The NASB was clearer in its translation of this verse

                Other than that you appear quite confused as it was you who were attempting to argue the end of the world was in the first century

                Not me

                Hello





                Originally posted by noble View Post
                Are you aware that your song and dance doesn't get the end of the world/age/aion out of the first century?

                Tom replies

                I am aware that the end of the world and the end of an age need not be same thing

                appearently you are unaware

                Hello

                There are many ages and the end of one says nothing about the end of another



                Originally posted by noble View Post
                I see one of your comments in this post was that Daniel used end of days not end of world.... did you not see this?


                Tom replies

                You posted the verse . In the verse you posted it stated end of days. Why do you speak of it ?

                Your words

                .....................................


                Here is Daniel getting his inheritance of eternal life...


                Dan 12

                13 “As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

                .................................................

                BTW days have not ended


                Originally posted by noble View Post
                Now we have to determine WHEN the end of the world is: When the WORLD ends we have to assume the age would be over wouldn't you think?

                I see thru all this junk of yours fairly easily but why do you try to fool yourself??

                noble
                Tom replies

                LOL

                Your vision would have to improve so you could qualify to be called near sighted spiritually or biblically speaking


                @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@2

                TomL replied

                03-12-18, 12:56 PM

                Tom stated



                Your new question

                "What is the absolute earliest that any of the people who happen to be alive and remaining on earth at the moment of the last trump can be caught up?"

                Is nothing the bible speaks of and appears to be another red herring

                If you have an argument to make go ahead and make it instead of looking for reasons to run away


                Originally posted by noble View Post
                1 Thess 4:15
                15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord,
                will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.






                Tom replies

                No kidding your question was so poorly worded it was unclear what you were asking



                Originally posted by noble View Post
                See that.....the earliest that any of those who are alive and remaining can be caught up is AFTER all of the sleepers are dealt with.




                Tom replies

                So what ?
                1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
                It takes but a twinkling of an eye for the dead to be raised and the living changed

                Originally posted by noble View Post
                Here is Daniel getting his inheritance of eternal life...
                Dan 12
                13 “As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”
                Now we have to determine WHEN the end of the world is: When the WORLD ends we have to assume the age would be over wouldn't you think?
                Hebrews 9
                26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once
                in the end of the world
                hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
                Here again is the end of the world
                1 COR 10
                11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the
                ends of the world are
                come.
                So the first time it was possible for those alive and remaining to be raised ti immortality was when Martha did it 2000 years ago.. well she must have been one of the first!!!




                noble
                [/QUOTE]
                Tom replies
                Note first Daniel does not use the phrase end of the world but the end of days
                Note second the Greek behind the phrase end of the world is really end of the aion (age)
                The KJV obscures things by translating two different words as world. The first word translated world is kosmos while the second word translated word is aion (age)
                The NSB translates more accurately here
                1Co 10:11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
                The age referenced is that of the old Testament economy
                So no all days did not end in 70 A.D.
                and you don't have an argument



                Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                Comment


                • #38
                  Tom

                  Note first Daniel does not use the phrase end of the world but the end of days
                  Yes and you didn't think that the end of days would be over when the end of the world was. I call BS.

                  Note second the Greek behind the phrase end of the world is really end of the aion (age)
                  It sure is, now do you know that the WORLD also ended in the first century... the age did so the world did too, The both come from the Greek word AION.

                  So now we can look deeper into the verses to confirm when that pesky end of the age is.

                  You boldly state that the end of the age was the end of some economy...whoopie ding! I'll say it was the end of half price drinks at the inn on Fridays.... just as biblically accurate.

                  The second resurrection is at the end of the ages... Daniel says in Daniel 12:13. The second resurrection is at the end Paul says in 1 COR 15:24.The second resurrection is somewhere near the great trib...DANIEL 12:2. So we aren't worrying about two ends here, the end is at the same time as the coming,,,,, and guess what...the end and the coming are at the time the temple was destroyed!!!! Matt 24 and compare with Luke 21.

                  So Tom the end of the age that we are talking about here was in the first century,,,,,, kaboom!

                  The KJV obscures things by translating two different words as world. The first word translated world is kosmos while the second word translated word is aion (age)
                  It's not confusing at aion is world or age...kosmos is cosmos. Add in oikoumene too because that is a different world too.
                  The NSB translates more accurately here
                  1Co 10:11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

                  End of age, end of world ....same thing.
                  The age referenced is that of the old Testament economy
                  The end of the old covenant in which there is no longer any death... that was over in 70 Ad, first century....at the same tom pf the cpmong and the destruction of the temple.
                  So no all days did not end in 70 A.D.
                  Of course not which is what I have been trying to tell you.
                  and you don't have an argument
                  Ah that WAS my argument!

                  noble

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Tom noted
                    Note first Daniel does not use the phrase end of the world but the end of days

                    Originally posted by noble View Post
                    Yes and you didn't think that the end of days would be over when the end of the world was. I call BS.

                    Tom replies

                    Call it ?

                    It's your primary language

                    you speak it fluently

                    The point however is Daniels end of days is not the end of the age Paul was speaking of

                    Hello you mistranslated Daniel so you could match it up with the KJV's poor translation of aion as world

                    It was therefore necessary to unravel all the mistranslated phrases and remove the false association you created





                    Note second the Greek behind the phrase end of the world is really end of the aion (age)


                    Originally posted by noble View Post
                    It sure is, now do you know that the WORLD also ended in the first century... the age did so the world did too, The both come from the Greek word AION.

                    Tom replies

                    LOL

                    Are you well ?

                    The world did not end in 70 A.D.

                    things continued much as they had previous to that

                    You are completely irrational here

                    Aion is not world

                    It is age

                    and world does not come from aion

                    get it ?


                    Originally posted by noble View Post
                    So now we can look deeper into the verses to confirm when that pesky end of the age is.

                    You boldly state that the end of the age was the end of some economy...whoopie ding! I'll say it was the end of half price drinks at the inn on Fridays.... just as biblically accurate.

                    The second resurrection is at the end of the ages... Daniel says in Daniel 12:13. The second resurrection is at the end Paul says in 1 COR 15:24.The second resurrection is somewhere near the great trib...DANIEL 12:2. So we aren't worrying about two ends here, the end is at the same time as the coming,,,,, and guess what...the end and the coming are at the time the temple was destroyed!!!! Matt 24 and compare with Luke 21.

                    So Tom the end of the age that we are talking about here was in the first century,,,,,, kaboom!

                    Tom replies

                    Have you forgotten to take your medication again

                    There are many ages. And all things have an age or duration

                    The old testament econcomy had an age. It was at its end

                    Heb 8:
                    6 ¶ But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
                    7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
                    8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--
                    9 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD.
                    10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
                    11 "None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
                    12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."
                    13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

                    Thus Hebrews 8 explains the end of the ages Paul was speaking of


                    and now you alter Daniels

                    Da 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end [be]: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

                    end of days

                    to end of the age

                    Do you think you can just twist scripture so it states whatever you want

                    first you made end of days into end of the world

                    now you make end of days into end of the age

                    good grief stop twisting the scriptures

                    you fool no one and I think you just confuse yourself


                    The KJV obscures things by translating two different words as world. The first word translated world is kosmos while the second word translated word is aion (age)



                    Originally posted by noble View Post
                    t's not confusing at aion is world or age...kosmos is cosmos. Add in oikoumene too because that is a different world too.
                    The NSB translates more accurately here
                    1Co 10:11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

                    End of age, end of world ....same thing.

                    Tom replies

                    sorry no it is not

                    Age is age and world is world

                    aion is a period of time - or duration

                    An age can be the duration of anything A person , a time period bound by a common characteristic or thing, the life of God etc

                    In any case it is completely irrational to imagine the world ended in 70 A.d.

                    It is still with us today



                    The age referenced is that of the old Testament economy



                    [QUOTE=noble;n5144364]
                    The end of the old covenant in which there is no longer any death... that was over in 70 Ad, first century....at the same tom pf the cpmong and the destruction of the temple.

                    Tom replies

                    LOL

                    I guess all the physical dying all around us is just one big illusion . right ?

                    Remember the honeymooners

                    and Norton's lost dog

                    LULU

                    You are getting there

                    So no all days did not end in 70 A.D.



                    Of course not which is what I have been trying to tell you.

                    Tom replies

                    Hello

                    if 70 a.d. is not the end of all days

                    then Daniel 12 is not referring to the 70 a.d. timeframe

                    Duh

                    It can't be the end of day when days continue

                    You really are quite confused






                    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      TomL;

                      From Strong on 1 COR 10:11

                      world in KJV is translated from aiōn. Ages i 1 cor 10:11 in the NASB is translated from aiōn.

                      aiōn
                      according to Strong means

                      for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity

                      the worlds, universe

                      period of time, age

                      noble

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by noble View Post
                        TomL;

                        From Strong on 1 COR 10:11

                        world in KJV is translated from aiōn. Ages i 1 cor 10:11 in the NASB is translated from aiōn.

                        aiōn
                        according to Strong means

                        for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity

                        the worlds, universe

                        period of time, age

                        noble
                        Tom replies

                        Try again The primary or radical meaning of aion
                        a period of time

                        The period of time can be of anything

                        even the time of the world.

                        but the meaning of aion is not world

                        It is like the word world itself.it can represent all the people who live in the world

                        but the meaning of world is not people

                        If you doubt it find all the uses of aion and substitute the word world for it and see if it makes sense





                        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by TomL View Post

                          Tom replies

                          Try again The primary or radical meaning of aion
                          a period of time

                          The period of time can be of anything

                          even the time of the world.

                          but the meaning of aion is not world

                          It is like the word world itself.it can represent all the people who live in the world

                          but the meaning of world is not people

                          If you doubt it find all the uses of aion and substitute the word world for it and see if it makes sense




                          A period of time..... by golly you're getting it ...maybe..... the period of time when death reigned-from ADAM to MOSES ended in the first century as 1 COR 10:11 tells you. That verse agrees with the timing of Hebrews 9:26 and of course all of it falls into place with 2 Tim 1:10.

                          Yes Tom world or age in the use of AION would be a period of time....not the planet. If they meant the planet it would be kosmos.

                          noble

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by noble View Post

                            A period of time..... by golly you're getting it ...maybe..... the period of time when death reigned-from ADAM to MOSES ended in the first century as 1 COR 10:11 tells you. That verse agrees with the timing of Hebrews 9:26 and of course all of it falls into place with 2 Tim 1:10.

                            Yes Tom world or age in the use of AION would be a period of time....not the planet. If they meant the planet it would be kosmos.

                            noble
                            Tom replies

                            No Noble

                            The passage you allude to refers to the period of time when there was no law

                            Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
                            14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

                            That period ended when the law was given

                            Aion as I noted refers to a period of time as you affirm however the question is what period of time was ending

                            The book of Hebrews supplies the answer

                            Heb 8:6 ¶ But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
                            7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
                            8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
                            9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
                            10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
                            11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
                            12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
                            13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

                            It is the period of the old covenant


                            previously

                            @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@


                            Originally posted by TomL View Post


                            Tom replies

                            Try again The primary or radical meaning of aion
                            a period of time

                            The period of time can be of anything

                            even the time of the world.
                            but the meaning of aion is not world

                            It is like the word world itself.it can represent all the people who live in the world

                            but the meaning of world is not people

                            If you doubt it find all the uses of aion and substitute the word world for it and see if it makes sense


                            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              TomL;

                              No Noble

                              The passage you allude to refers to the period of time when there was no law
                              SO you realize you screwed up on the Greek word AION so you shift to a new excuse.. we see that a lot from you people.

                              The law was on its way out too but that's not important really. The law took a mean hit when the place for sacrifices was destroyed.... 1290 days after the abomination.. ( You must like the way I snuck that in there!)

                              Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
                              14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

                              I don't care about the sin, I don't care about the law...it is the DEATH that reigned we are looking at in verse 14. The law couldn't matter less. It says DEATH REIGNEd.. to bad if the verse sinks your theological ship... and don't breath in as it's going down....
                              That period ended when the law was given
                              Sure and bullfrogs aren't waterproof!

                              Aion as I noted refers to a period of time as you affirm however the question is what period of time was ending
                              The book of Hebrews supplies the answer
                              Actually it does , 8 and 9....
                              Heb 8:6 ¶ But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
                              7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
                              Yes, there was a second covenant...... Jesus had a lot to do with that one..
                              8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

                              Maybe ask a dispie about the first covenant, they work hard on those I think...
                              9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

                              Well, there is a bit about it...
                              10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

                              Hey remember the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven?

                              11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

                              Oh oh!!!!!!!
                              12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

                              Somebodies in a world of hurt...
                              13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

                              Yes, that old covenant was in need of an update and it was about to end.. and end it did , in Hebrews 9:26 and 1 COR 10:11.
                              It is the period of the old covenant
                              Right up until the old covenant ends in 1 COR 10:11.


                              Tom replies

                              Try again The primary or radical meaning of aion
                              a period of time
                              The period of time can be of anything

                              PSSSST... you already lost that one!

                              noble

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by noble View Post




                                Tom stated

                                No Noble

                                The passage you allude to refers to the period of time when there was no law


                                Originally posted by noble View Post
                                SO you realize you screwed up on the Greek word AION so you shift to a new excuse.. we see that a lot from you people.


                                Tom replies

                                Read Noble I know its hard for you but try



                                Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
                                14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

                                The nevertheless means despite what is stated in verse 13 death reigned

                                Hello

                                Verse 13 speaks of when there is no law

                                And in case you forget it was you who mentioned Ro 5 so I address it

                                Aion is spoken of again down below


                                Originally posted by noble View Post
                                The law was on its way out too but that's not important really. The law took a mean hit when the place for sacrifices was destroyed.... 1290 days after the abomination.. ( You must like the way I snuck that in there!)




                                Tom replies

                                If one is understand Romans 5 it is





                                Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed

                                when there is no law

                                .


                                14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

                                Originally posted by noble View Post
                                I don't care about the sin, I don't care about the law...it is the DEATH that reigned we are looking at in verse 14. The law couldn't matter less. It says DEATH REIGNEd.. to bad if the verse sinks your theological ship... and don't breath in as it's going down....




                                Tom replies

                                And apparently you don't care what the word of God says

                                No it does not sink my theological ship for I affirm death reigns

                                despite your mindless blattering



                                That period ended when the law was given


                                Originally posted by noble View Post
                                Sure and bullfrogs aren't waterproof!




                                Tom replies

                                Do you have anything but denial you can offer


                                Aion as I noted refers to a period of time as you affirm however the question is what period of time was ending

                                The book of Hebrews supplies the answer


                                Originally posted by noble View Post
                                Actually it does , 8 and 9....


                                Heb 8:6 ¶ But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


                                7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.


                                Yes, there was a second covenant...... Jesus had a lot to do with that one..


                                8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:


                                Maybe ask a dispie about the first covenant, they work hard on those I think...


                                9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.


                                Well, there is a bit about it...


                                10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:




                                Tom replies

                                Try not to get distracted

                                but you just affirmed my point

                                I posted



                                Aion as I noted refers to a period of time as you affirm however the question is what period of time was ending

                                The book of Hebrews supplies the answer

                                The passage noted the ending of the old covenant

                                and you agreed saying

                                Actually it does

                                Hello



                                Originally posted by noble View Post

                                Hey remember the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven?


                                11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.


                                Oh oh!!!!!!!


                                12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


                                Somebodies in a world of hurt...


                                13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


                                Yes, that old covenant was in need of an update and it was about to end.. and end it did , in Hebrews 9:26 and 1 COR 10:11.



                                Tom replies

                                So 1co 10:11

                                Is speaking of the end of the old covenant

                                Not the end of the world as I had noted

                                It is the period of the old covenant


                                Originally posted by noble View Post
                                Right up until the old covenant ends in 1 COR 10:11.




                                Tom replies

                                Once again

                                So that was the end of the age of the old covenant

                                Not the end of the world

                                And you affirm what I stated all along

                                and of course that is not what Ro 5 is speaking of in verses 13 &14

                                It speaks of the period up to the giving of the law



                                13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
                                14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

                                There was no law from Adam until Moses gave the law

                                Tom replies

                                Try again The primary or radical meaning of aion
                                a period of time

                                The period of time can be of anything


                                PSSSST... you already lost that one!

                                Tom replies

                                Only in your imagination
                                seeing as you are not given to rational thinking or competent exegesis

                                But you agreed with me that 1co 10:11 speaks of the end of the old covenant

                                The world did not end with the old covenant

                                Duh

                                The old covenant vanished completely with the destruction of the temple

                                but the world continued

                                You are going to need better arguments

                                Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

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