Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

All the futurist farce items disappear when we prove the time of the GT and Parousia

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • TomL;



    I noted the wicked are raised as well


    Noble states
    Yes, the goats of Matthew 25:31 to 46.




    Their being raised did not provide them with a remedy for the loss of eternal life in heaven

    Noble states
    So I responded to the above by saying:
    Not the wicked but the righteous folks made it.

    Your comment
    So why why why would you keep on asking the same question?

    Tom replies

    Is it really true you cannot understand the issue has to with the nature of the death resurrection remedies ?

    Resurrection did not save the wicked from the loss of eternal life in heaven

    So obviously resurrection was not designed to remedy that

    Now why can you not understand that simple thing ?

    So the question remains what death is resurrection designed to remedy

    and nothing you state actually addresses it

    Hello

    Once again what death does resurrection remedy

    Its not hard Noble



    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

    Comment




    • Tom stated


      I noted the wicked are raised as well


      Noble states
      Yes, the goats of Matthew 25:31 to 46.




      Their being raised did not provide them with a remedy for the loss of eternal life in heaven

      Noble states
      So I responded to the above by saying:
      Not the wicked but the righteous folks made it.

      Your comment
      So why why why would you keep on asking the same question?

      Tom replies

      Is it really true you cannot understand the issue has to with the nature of the death resurrection remedies ?

      Resurrection did not save the wicked from the loss of eternal life in heaven

      So obviously resurrection was not designed to remedy that

      Now why can you not understand that simple thing ?

      So the question remains what death is resurrection designed to remedy

      and nothing you state actually addresses it

      Hello

      Once again what death does resurrection remedy

      Its not hard Noble



      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

      Comment


      • TomL;

        Their being raised did not provide them with a remedy for the loss of eternal life in heaven
        Nothing will ever get the wicked into heaven...nothing. The wicked are raised to be condemned ..OR if it is after the PAROUSIA or last trump...
        Matthew 12
        vil. 36 But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

        Noble states
        So I responded to the above by saying:
        Not the wicked but the righteous folks made it.

        Your comment
        So why why why would you keep on asking the same question?

        Tom replies
        Is it really true you cannot understand the issue has to with the nature of the death resurrection remedies ?
        That is just you... there is no such thing as a wicked person going anywhere but to Hell. There was an exception, it appears i Rev 7 where some seemed to be given a second chance at accepting Jesus.

        Resurrection did not save the wicked from the loss of eternal life in heaven
        No...did you think it would for some reason?

        So obviously resurrection was not designed to remedy that
        Not for the wicked , only the righteous. All the righteous dead people were raised to eternal life in heaven in 70 Ad. SInce then all people meet Jesus at the judgment seat, 2 COR 5:10 after their death

        Now why can you not understand that simple thing ?
        I have no problems...you do!

        So the question remains what death is resurrection designed to remedy
        Ah why not..... the resurrection of the righteous dead gained those people what they were promised in the beginning...eternal life in heaven. They no longer had to die the death that reigned from Adam to Moses because Jesus destroyed that death in time for Martha to benefit... Martha NEVER DIED.

        and nothing you state actually addresses it
        Try reading it again..after you open your mind.

        Hello

        Once again what death does resurrection remedy
        Ah why not..... the resurrection of the righteous dead gained those people what they were promised in the beginning...eternal life in heaven. They no longer had to die the death that reigned from Adam to Moses because Jesus destroyed that death in time for Martha to benefit... Martha NEVER DIED.

        Its not hard Noble
        Ah why not..... the resurrection of the righteous dead gained those people what they were promised in the beginning...eternal life in heaven. They no longer had to die the death that reigned from Adam to Moses because Jesus destroyed that death in time for Martha to benefit... Martha NEVER DIED.

        Got it yet?

        noble

        Comment


        • Tom notes

          So the question remains what death is resurrection designed to remedy


          Noble states
          Ah why not..... the resurrection of the righteous dead gained those people what they were promised in the beginning...eternal life in heaven. They no longer had to die the death that reigned from Adam to Moses because Jesus destroyed that death in time for Martha to benefit... Martha NEVER DIED.

          Tom replies

          sorry the righteous are not the only ones resurrected so your answer does not deal with all the facts

          Try again

          What death is resurrection designed to remedy ?

          If that is too hard for you

          What is resurrection ?


          and nothing you state actually addresses it

          Nobles states


          Try reading it again..after you open your mind.

          Tom replies

          Nope nothing you state answers the question
          Once again what death does resurrection remedy



          Noble asks
          Ah why not..... the resurrection of the righteous dead gained those people what they were promised in the beginning...eternal life in heaven. They no longer had to die the death that reigned from Adam to Moses because Jesus destroyed that death in time for Martha to benefit... Martha NEVER DIED.

          Tom replies

          So Christ was resurrected to get eternal life in heaven ?
          Its not hard Noble

          Resurrection effects all so it is not designed to get all into heaven

          So try to make sense and post an answer that deals with all the facts


          What death is resurrection designed to remedy ?

          What is resurrection ?
          Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

          Comment


          • TomL;

            So the question remains what death is resurrection designed to remedy


            Noble states
            Ah why not..... the resurrection of the righteous dead gained those people what they were promised in the beginning...eternal life in heaven. They no longer had to die the death that reigned from Adam to Moses because Jesus destroyed that death in time for Martha to benefit... Martha NEVER DIED.

            Tom replies

            sorry the righteous are not the only ones resurrected so your answer does not deal with all the facts
            Ah here we are.... so you think the wicked can go to heaven .... whoops be raised back to life on earth, do you?

            Not gonna happen....
            2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

            There is your wicked.

            Try again

            What death is resurrection designed to remedy ?
            I don't follow your remedy angle but the death that these righteous people were brought back from is the death that reigned from Adam to moses... just like I told you last time......
            ... the resurrection of the righteous dead gained those people what they were promised in the beginning...eternal life in heaven. They no longer had to die the death that reigned from Adam to Moses because Jesus destroyed that death in time for Martha to benefit... Martha NEVER DIED.


            If that is too hard for you
            No, I got it on one of the first times I ever read the bible.....

            What is resurrection ?
            The resurrection of the dead was one of two events where people who physically died before the last trump were raised to eternal life in heaven. Since that time there has been no need for a resurrection of anybody because, just like Martha , no believer has ever died.


            and nothing you state actually addresses it
            Oh yes it does, but you feel wicked are raised to earth, you think the resurrections yet to come and you think the eternal life is on earth......it ain't.

            Nobles states

            Once again what death does resurrection remedy
            Noble asks
            Ah why not..... the resurrection of the righteous dead gained those people what they were promised in the beginning...eternal life in heaven. They no longer had to die the death that reigned from Adam to Moses because Jesus destroyed that death in time for Martha to benefit... Martha NEVER DIED.

            Tom replies

            So Christ was resurrected to get eternal life in heaven ?
            FOr believers ....

            Resurrection effects all so it is not designed to get all into heaven
            Gets the righteous int heaven for those who died prior to the last trump.

            So try to make sense and post an answer that deals with all the facts
            Been there done that.

            What death is resurrection designed to remedy ?
            .. the resurrection of the righteous dead gained those people what they were promised in the beginning...eternal life in heaven. They no longer had to die the death that reigned from Adam to Moses because Jesus destroyed that death in time for Martha to benefit... Martha NEVER DIED.

            What is resurrection ?
            The resurrection of the dead was one of two events where people who physically died before the last trump were raised to eternal life in heaven. Since that time there has been no need for a resurrection of anybody because, just like Martha , no believer has ever died.

            noble

            Comment


            • Tom states;

              So the question remains what death is resurrection designed to remedy


              Noble states
              Ah why not..... the resurrection of the righteous dead gained those people what they were promised in the beginning...eternal life in heaven. They no longer had to die the death that reigned from Adam to Moses because Jesus destroyed that death in time for Martha to benefit... Martha NEVER DIED.

              Tom replies


              sorry the righteous are not the only ones resurrected so your answer does not deal with all the facts


              Ah here we are.... so you think the wicked can go to heaven .... whoops be raised back to life on earth, do you?

              Tom replies

              Were you unable to comprehend what was written ?

              Read again

              The argument clearly was seeing as the wicked are not raised to heaven by resurrection then resurrection is not the remedy for loss of heaven

              Think Noble

              Noble states

              Not gonna happen....
              2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

              There is your wicked.

              Tom replies

              Try again you are posting your confusion not anything I stated

              If you cannot even comprehend a simple argument why would anyone think you are able to accurately interpret the bible ?
              What death is resurrection designed to remedy ?


              Noble states
              I don't follow your remedy angle but the death that these righteous people were brought back from is the death that reigned from Adam to moses... just like I told you last time......
              ... the resurrection of the righteous dead gained those people what they were promised in the beginning...eternal life in heaven. They no longer had to die the death that reigned from Adam to Moses because Jesus destroyed that death in time for Martha to benefit... Martha NEVER DIED.

              Tom replies

              Newsflash we are speaking not of the just the righteous but the unrighteous as well

              Let me make it more simple for you

              What death that the unrighteous face is undone by resurrection ?
              Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TomL View Post
                Tom replies

                Newsflash we are speaking not of the just the righteous but the unrighteous as well
                There is no WE here. It is just you thinking the wicked can be resurrected to heaven... they are raised to be condemned..no heaven involved for them.

                In your phony belief system you have the teaching that someday you will walk around a refurbished planet earth... IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!

                noble

                Comment


                • Originally posted by noble View Post

                  There is no WE here. It is just you thinking the wicked can be resurrected to heaven... they are raised to be condemned..no heaven involved for them.

                  In your phony belief system you have the teaching that someday you will walk around a refurbished planet earth... IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!

                  noble
                  Tom replies

                  You really do need to work on your reading

                  What part of the word not do you not understand

                  Resurrection effects all so it is
                  not
                  designed to get all into heaven
                  Try again you are posting your confusion not anything I stated

                  If you cannot even comprehend a simple argument why would anyone think you are able to accurately interpret the bible ?
                  What death is resurrection designed to remedy ?


                  Noble states
                  I don't follow your remedy angle but the death that these righteous people were brought back from is the death that reigned from Adam to moses... just like I told you last time......
                  ... the resurrection of the righteous dead gained those people what they were promised in the beginning...eternal life in heaven. They no longer had to die the death that reigned from Adam to Moses because Jesus destroyed that death in time for Martha to benefit... Martha NEVER DIED.

                  Tom replies

                  Newsflash we are speaking not of the just the righteous but the unrighteous as well

                  Let me make it more simple for you

                  What death that the unrighteous face is undone by resurrection ?

                  Noble will not answer as he does not want to expose his theology to further scrutiny
                  Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                  Comment


                  • TomL;

                    We just go from one ridiculous meaningless thing to some other ridiculous meaningless thing.

                    What death that the unrighteous face is undone by resurrection ?
                    None , they face the second death.

                    Revelation 21:8 But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

                    They were the goats who were raised to be condemned. NOw as people face the judgment seat of Christ..
                    Matt 12
                    36 But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

                    Don't be a goat!!

                    noble

                    Comment


                    • [QUOTE=noble;n5324788]TomL;

                      We just go from one ridiculous meaningless thing to some other ridiculous meaningless thing.

                      Tom states

                      Once more Noble

                      What death that the unrighteous face is undone by resurrection ?

                      None , they face the second death.

                      Tom replies

                      define resurrection Noble

                      It does not appear or have a doctrine of resurrection or even know what it is

                      Jesus was resurrected

                      Resurrection requires a raising of something

                      What did Jesus promise to raise Noble ?

                      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                      Comment


                      • TomL;

                        Once more Noble
                        Well of course, why would I expect anything else?
                        What death that the unrighteous face is undone by resurrection ?
                        None , they face the second death.

                        The unrighteous were raised to be condemned. They were never freed from death , in fact et they died the second death.

                        The death that the righteous were raised from was the death that reigned from Adam to Moses. They came from sleep like Daniel did and were given eternal life in heaven...

                        There seems to be an exception in Rev 7 where some of those who were killed by the wrath of God may have been given a second chance to believe in Jesus.


                        Tom replies

                        define resurrection Noble
                        35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?” 36 You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; 37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.

                        If a person was a righteous person and they died before the last trump of 70 AD they would have been resurrected to heaven in one of the two resurrections of the dead at or near the PAROUSIA.

                        It does not appear or have a doctrine of resurrection or even know what it is
                        Being taken to heaven from sleep at or near the coming of the son of man.

                        Jesus was resurrected
                        Yes He was.

                        Resurrection requires a raising of something
                        Yes it means coming to LIFE AGAIN.

                        What did Jesus promise to raise Noble ?
                        Every dead person who believes in Him.. Martha was one of the first.

                        noble

                        Comment


                        • TomL;



                          Once more Noble

                          Well of course, why would I expect anything else?


                          Tom replies

                          Until you get it right

                          What death that the unrighteous face is undone by resurrection ?

                          None , they face the second death.


                          Tom replies

                          define resurrection Noble


                          35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?” 36 You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; 37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
                          If a person was a righteous person and they died before the last trump of 70 AD they would have been resurrected to heaven in one of the two resurrections of the dead at or near the PAROUSIA.


                          Tom replies

                          Sorry that does not explain the resurrection of the wicked

                          Try again

                          What is the resurrection of the wicked ?


                          It does not appear or have a doctrine of resurrection or even know what it is

                          Being taken to heaven from sleep at or near the coming of the son of man.


                          Tom replies

                          Sorry the wicked are not taken to heaven

                          try again


                          Jesus was resurrected

                          Yes He was.



                          Resurrection requires a raising of something

                          Yes it means coming to LIFE AGAIN.


                          Tom replies

                          A coming to life

                          You mean there is a transistion from not being alive to being alive

                          What was not alive and came alive Noble ?


                          What did Jesus promise to raise Noble ?

                          Noble
                          Every dead person who believes in Him.. Martha was one of the first.
                          Tom replies

                          A little closer to home

                          A personal reference

                          Need a clue he states he would do it after three days

                          Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                          Comment


                          • TomL;
                            What was not alive and came alive Noble ?
                            The PERSON.

                            The person was in one of the two resurrections of people who had physically died prior to the last trump. SOme people were chosen by Jesus to be in the first resurrection and then there was ones who would be judged. These people were separated by Jesus in the separation of the sheep and goats and those on the left and right were:
                            46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

                            Eternal punishment was given to the goat and the sheep were raised to eternal LIFE in heaven.
                            The PEOPLE...,,, yes THE PEOPLE.... heaven is not a group home for bodiless spirits it is a place of peace for PEOPLE...... people who while on earth were righteous in the eyes if the Lord.

                            noble

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by noble View Post
                              TomL;


                              The PERSON.

                              The person was in one of the two resurrections of people who had physically died prior to the last trump. SOme people were chosen by Jesus to be in the first resurrection and then there was ones who would be judged. These people were separated by Jesus in the separation of the sheep and goats and those on the left and right were:
                              46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

                              Eternal punishment was given to the goat and the sheep were raised to eternal LIFE in heaven.
                              The PEOPLE...,,, yes THE PEOPLE.... heaven is not a group home for bodiless spirits it is a place of peace for PEOPLE...... people who while on earth were righteous in the eyes if the Lord.

                              noble
                              Tom replies

                              sorry Noble

                              But when Jesus died it was his body that died

                              yet we still read Jesus the person died

                              When Lazarus died it was his body that died yet we still read the person called Lazarus died

                              Run but you cant hide

                              Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                              Comment


                              • TomL;

                                But when Jesus died it was his body that died
                                YES, YES, YES.... it was the body of Jesus that died... JESUS Himself did not die. JESUS was LIVING without His physical body and speaking in the prison.

                                Wouldn't it be nice of you could carry this information to...IT WAS JESUS BODY THAT RAISED , IT WAS HIS FLESH BODY RAISED SO IT WILL BE WITH US!!!
                                Taint.... We have no obligation to appear to witnesses as Jesus did. Jesus DID appear as physical to those witnesses but as we KNOW from 1 COR 15:45 Jesus became a spirit. We KNOW how He appeared to witnesses because the bible tells us GOd caused Him to be visible.... however as I said we miss all that part , we die, our physical body decays and we are taken to heaven, we the person, where God gives us a NEW heavenly body, suitable for eternal life in Heaven.
                                We physical doe, our flesh body decays and we, as believers go directly to heaven ...Jesus had to be physical in there and we don't. However , as Jesus went to heaven He was in His spiritual body again as we see as He met with Paul. Jesus was an invisible to mortals spirit again. Just as He was when He created heaven and earth.

                                yet we still read Jesus the person died
                                Yes we sure do and that is because the essence of Jesus and US is in the spirit which lives on , NOT in the flesh which, in our case, decays to dust.
                                When Lazarus died it was his body that died yet we still read the person called Lazarus died
                                Yes, and until you start thinking a lot deeper than that you better just hang in there with the false religion that has got you this far.

                                Good luck.

                                noble

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X