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All the futurist farce items disappear when we prove the time of the GT and Parousia

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  • Noble claims

    The spirit of the person sleeps , that is the spirit of the person who died.... get that, the spirit of the person who died..... the spirit of the person who died. That would make the person dead and sleeping.... like Daniel was in Dan 12:2.

    Tom replies

    Sorry that is not biblical


    Was Lazarus (the poor man) sleeping ?

    Noble affirms he was not


    No


    The rich man ?

    Noble affirms he was not


    No


    The tribulation Martyrs


    Yes...
    And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    Tom replies

    Their spirit were seen here

    Revelation 6:9-11 (KJV)
    9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
    10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
    11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    I ask again

    were their spirits sleeping

    Do you want to change your answer ?
    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

    Comment


    • TomL
      I ask again

      were their spirits sleeping

      Do you want to change your answer ?
      No the answer is xactly the same as last time:
      Rev 20
      . And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

      When John first saw these souls they were not living because they came to life later. We KNOW a soul can not die so the bible calls it sleeping...... so do I... what do you call it.

      Same answer and this time deal with the verse I used not some other verse.
      noble

      Comment


      • Tom had stated
        I ask again
        were their spirits sleeping
        Do you want to change your answer ?


        Noble replies
        No the answer is xactly the same as last time:
        Rev 20
        . And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

        When John first saw these souls they were not living because they came to life later. We KNOW a soul can not die so the bible calls it sleeping...... so do I... what do you call it.

        Same answer and this time deal with the verse I used not some other verse.
        noble

        Tom replies

        This is when John first saw them

        Revelation 6:9-11 (KJV)
        9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
        10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
        11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

        pretty noisy for sleeping wouldn't you say
        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TomL View Post
          Tom had stated
          I ask again
          were their spirits sleeping
          Do you want to change your answer ?



          Noble replies
          No the answer is xactly the same as last time:
          Rev 20
          . And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

          When John first saw these souls they were not living because they came to life later. We KNOW a soul can not die so the bible calls it sleeping...... so do I... what do you call it.

          Same answer and this time deal with the verse I used not some other verse.
          noble

          Tom replies

          This is when John first saw them

          Revelation 6:9-11 (KJV)
          9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
          10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
          11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

          pretty noisy for sleeping wouldn't you say
          What scares you about Rev 20:4? If those souls ....CAME.... to life they must have been something other than LIVING when John first saw them.....
          The bible would tell us that those souls were sleeping but what would you explain it as.?

          And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus ................

          It's good you realize that these are the same people as will be in the first resurrection. Maybe you can make the connection of the first resurrection in 1 Thess 4:16 too.

          Tell me Tom.... do you think that Rev 6 in some way cancels out Rev 20:4 or why do you refer to Rev 6, what is your point?

          noble
          Last edited by noble; 08-10-18, 03:13 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by noble View Post

            What scares you about Rev 20:4? If those souls ....CAME.... to life they must have been something other than LIVING when John first saw them.....
            The bible would tell us that those souls were sleeping but what would you explain it as.?

            And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus ................

            It's good you realize that these are the same people as will be in the first resurrection. Maybe you can make the connection of the first resurrection in 1 Thess 4:16 too.

            Tell me Tom.... do you think that Rev 6 in some way cancels out Rev 20:4 or why do you refer to Rev 6, what is your point?

            noble
            Tom replies

            That's a question you must answer

            Neither verse shows souls sleeping

            I believe they are fully consistent

            You ignore the fact they

            Revelation 6:10 (KJV)
            10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

            to propagate a false doctrine of soul sleep
            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

            Comment


            • Originally posted by TomL View Post

              Tom replies

              That's a question you must answer

              Neither verse shows souls sleeping

              I believe they are fully consistent

              You ignore the fact they

              Revelation 6:10 (KJV)
              10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

              to propagate a false doctrine of soul sleep
              No Tom YOU ignore this:
              And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

              John, in this biblical moment, SAW the souls... those souls CAME to life so what were those souls doing before they came to life.. the bible calls it sleeping, so I do to, what do you call it?

              I don't care about Rev 6 until we know what the souls were doing in Rev 20:4... if you don't know then you can't help me. If you don't know we may as well go back to the timing of when the great trib/parousia/resurrections are and put and end to this phony discussion.

              noble
              Last edited by noble; 08-10-18, 05:01 PM.

              Comment


              • Is there anybody who would venture to discuss the topic the thread is actually about.

                Luke 21 tells of a sequence of events which are tied to the first century...... or should I just accept what the non response says?? Of course Luke 21 is taking about the Judean rebellion and so is Mark 13 and Matt 24. Which means yes full preterism IS correct.

                It would be nice to see some calculated , well thought out , bible based ...something...... which is more biblical than full preterism.

                noble

                Comment


                • Originally posted by noble View Post

                  No Tom YOU ignore this:
                  And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

                  John, in this biblical moment, SAW the souls... those souls CAME to life so what were those souls doing before they came to life.. the bible calls it sleeping, so I do to, what do you call it?

                  I don't care about Rev 6 until we know what the souls were doing in Rev 20:4... if you don't know then you can't help me. If you don't know we may as well go back to the timing of when the great trib/parousia/resurrections are and put and end to this phony discussion.

                  noble
                  Tom replies




                  Sorry Noble nothing in that passage says they were sleeping

                  You are adding to one passage and subtracting from the other

                  To this one you add

                  Revelation 20:4 (KJV)
                  4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the sleeping souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

                  and from this one you subtract

                  Revelation 6:9-10 (KJV)
                  9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
                  10

                  Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TomL View Post

                    Tom replies




                    Sorry Noble nothing in that passage says they were sleeping

                    You are adding to one passage and subtracting from the other

                    To this one you add

                    Revelation 20:4 (KJV)
                    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the sleeping souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

                    So the souls weren't sleeping.... okay so what were they doing... they were coming to life so do you want to tell me these souls were dead? They were coming to life so what does the bible have to say about people waiting for a resurrection from the dead.... a coming to life?

                    When these people, the souls John saw, do come to life where do they go? How long are they there? Does the cloud play a part in it?

                    noble

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by noble View Post

                      So the souls weren't sleeping.... okay so what were they doing... they were coming to life so do you want to tell me these souls were dead? They were coming to life so what does the bible have to say about people waiting for a resurrection from the dead.... a coming to life?

                      When these people, the souls John saw, do come to life where do they go? How long are they there? Does the cloud play a part in it?

                      noble
                      Tom replies

                      What part of spirits/souls don't die do you not understand

                      I am pretty sure there is a confession or two from you floating around where you confirm exactly that

                      but You have this penchant for wanting to raise what did not die and leave in death what did die


                      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                      Comment


                      • TomL;
                        Tom replies

                        What part of spirits/souls don't die do you not understand
                        Yes I know so what were those souls doing , waiting to come to life?

                        I am pretty sure there is a confession or two from you floating around where you confirm exactly that
                        I can save you looking, I am convinced that only God can kill a soul.

                        but You have this penchant for wanting to raise what did not die and leave in death what did die
                        Just wanting to know what those souls in Rev 20:4 are doing as they are waiting to come to life?

                        noble

                        Comment


                        • [QUOTE=noble;n5439354]TomL;

                          Yes I know so what were those souls doing , waiting to come to life?

                          Tom replies

                          Sorry noble souls/spirits don't sleep bodies sleep

                          You cannot claim that spirits die and do not die

                          and these appear conscious not sleeping

                          IRevelation 6:10 (KJV)
                          10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
                          Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                          Comment


                          • TomL;

                            Yes I know so what were those souls doing , waiting to come to life?

                            Tom replies

                            Sorry noble souls/spirits don't sleep bodies sleep
                            Okay so what were they doing? What does the bible say Daniel was doing?

                            You cannot claim that spirits die and do not die
                            I know, so I don't. I use the same term the bible uses... what a concept eh?

                            and these appear conscious not sleeping
                            REV 20:4 NOt Rev 6....where is the consousness in Rev 20:4

                            WHAT WERE THE SOULS DOING IN REV 20:4? John saw them..... the soul were going to come to life. What were they doing as John first saw them in JOhn 20:4? Let me repeat that... .. what were the soul doing when John first saw them in Rev 20:4 .... BEFORE they came to life?

                            noble

                            Comment


                            • [QUOTE=noble;n5440032]TomL;

                              Yes I know so what were those souls doing , waiting to come to life?

                              Tom replies

                              We saw

                              Revelation 6:10 (KJV)
                              10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

                              they were asking to avenged

                              not sleeping


                              Nobles states
                              Okay so what were they doing? What does the bible say Daniel was doing?

                              Tom replies

                              Read above. as for Daniel I do not read where the bible speaks of his spirit sleeping

                              I don't read anywhere where any spirit is stated to be sleeping

                              The body sleeps

                              Noble states


                              I know, so I don't. I use the same term the bible uses... what a concept eh?

                              Tom replies

                              except for one thing the bible never says the spirit sleeps

                              Hello


                              Noble states
                              REV 20:4 NOt Rev 6....where is the consousness in Rev 20:4

                              Tom replies

                              wake up Noble it is the same group expanded

                              If their spirit was not sleeping at Rev 6:9 it was not sleeping at Rev 20:4

                              or are you going to claim they started their sleep after being exalted to heaven

                              Hello

                              Well Noble was their spirit taken to heaven so they could then sleep ?
                              Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                              Comment


                              • TomL;
                                If their spirit was not sleeping at Rev 6:9 it was not sleeping at Rev 20:4

                                I see so what were they doing in Rev 20:4. That is the question. They were waiting to come to life.... we know that....John saw those souls... we know that so what were they doing when John saw them....waiting to come to life?
                                What was DANIEL doing in Daniel 12?

                                noble

                                Comment

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