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Resurrection, Universal Judgment and the destruction of Full Preterism

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  • [QUOTE=noble;n5264120][QUOTE=TomL;


    You sure don't like that NOW IS in John 5:25 do you... BUT I gotta tell you , it is still there.

    Sorry.

    noble[/QUOTE]

    Tom replies

    Just not in the verse that actually speaks of the resurrection

    which is Jn 5:28.29 Not Jn 5:24.25


    as you were told


    Your explaination was irrational

    The resurrection was not NOW while Jesus was still alive


    Tom replies


    give it up Noble there is no "now is" in verse 28 which we know speaks of the resurrection


    Verse 25 is not speaking of the resurrection because the resurrection was not "now is" while Jesus was alive


    What now is what the preaching of the gospel which we saw in verse 24


    Joh 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.


    His word - the gospel


    those who hear and believe cross from death to life


    They must have been dead to cross from death to life


    Yet they were physically alive to hear


    They were however spiritual dead


    so there we have the dead - they hear and they live


    Now of a fact that is what was actually happening during the period of time now is


    What was not happening during the period of time "now is" was the resurrection


    You cant have your cake and eat it too Noble


    If you make the resurrection "now is" you have those that are Christ's being resurrected before Christ


    and you cannot separate the hearing and the will live


    They are joined by the conjunction "and" as well as by the present tense of both hear and live


    So give up your bible twisting and acknowledge the truth


    which cannot be biblically denied


    The gospel was being preach during Christ's life and those that heard and believed crossed over from death to life


    There was no fantasy resurrection at that time no matter how you try to twist the bible



    Noble states







    Where is the resurrection in verse 28?

    28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,

    They are still just hearing the voice, the resurrection is talked about in verse 29 and it is a resurrection of BOTH the righteous and the wicked which makes it the resurrection at the end of the age... the end of the age is STILL in 1 COR 10:11.

    Tom replies

    Duh Noble

    It began with verse 28 a physically dead body doesn't hear a thing

    In any case you have done nothing at all to justify a claim for a first century resurrection based on Jn 5:25


    Nobles states

    Then I notice you quote verse 24..... get with the program the NOW IS is in verse 25 and it says they will hear His voice ...they do the nite of the crucifixion.

    Tom replies

    sorry but jn 5:25 makes both the hearing and the living now is

    they are join by the conjunction and and both are present participle showing they are cotemporaneous

    as John does frequently throughout his gospel

    Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
    Joh 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

    Noble states

    I can't help it of these verses don't fit your doctrine.... change your doctrine.

    Tom replies

    Work harder and you might come up with a rational theology

    There was no resurrection before Christ died

    and you can't twist the now is into a statement into support for a first century resurrection

    Further it probably never occurred to you but if you separate the hearing and the liying you have destroyed your own argument

    Further there is no reference to spirits in prison in JN 5:24-29

    There is a reference to the dead. That will be all the dead in a general resurrection and not an after death opportunity for salvation for the disobedient who died in the flood.

    You really need to give it up Noble

    You have been busted

    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

    Comment


    • TomL;

      The resurrection itself was some 37 years after the cross. However, spirits did hear Jesus the nite of the cross.... maybe before we don't know.

      noble

      Comment


      • Originally posted by noble View Post
        TomL;

        The resurrection itself was some 37 years after the cross. However, spirits did hear Jesus the nite of the cross.... maybe before we don't know.

        noble
        Tom replies

        not that anyone can find in the bible

        Tom replies

        Duh Noble

        It began with verse 28 a physically dead body doesn't hear a thing

        In any case you have done nothing at all to justify a claim for a first century resurrection based on Jn 5:25


        Nobles states

        Then I notice you quote verse 24..... get with the program the NOW IS is in verse 25 and it says they will hear His voice ...they do the nite of the crucifixion.

        Tom replies

        sorry but jn 5:25 makes both the hearing and the living now is

        they are join by the conjunction and and both are present participle showing they are cotemporaneous

        as John does frequently throughout his gospel

        Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
        Joh 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

        Noble states

        I can't help it of these verses don't fit your doctrine.... change your doctrine.

        Tom replies

        Work harder and you might come up with a rational theology

        There was no resurrection before Christ died

        and you can't twist the now is into a statement into support for a first century resurrection

        Further it probably never occurred to you but if you separate the hearing and the liying you have destroyed your own argument

        Further there is no reference to spirits in prison in JN 5:24-29

        There is a reference to the dead. That will be all the dead in a general resurrection and not an after death opportunity for salvation for the disobedient who died in the flood.

        You really need to give it up Noble

        You have been busted

        Not that anyone can find in history and reality

        The graves were not emptied and the living were not changed to immortal and caught up with the dead as the bible states

        1Co 15:51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
        52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
        53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

        1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
        16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
        17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

        Comment


        • TomL;

          It began with verse 28 a physically dead body doesn't hear a thing
          I hope every reader takes a look at John 5 and see where you totally reject what the bible says. When they see how you dey the word of God , I hope they do the same thing I do with you...

          25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

          28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when
          all who are in their graves will hear his voice
          This guy can nit be trusted in the biblical understanding department! Avoid him like the plague.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by noble View Post
            I hope every reader takes a look at John 5 and see where you totally reject what the bible says. When they see how you dey the word of God , I hope they do the same thing I do with you...
            25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.
            28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when
            This guy can nit be trusted in the biblical understanding department! Avoid him like the plague.
            Tom replies
            You are condemned by you own words
            and should be avoided like the plague
            by editing you leave out facts
            Jn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
            25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
            26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
            27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
            28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
            29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
            The dead are first seen in verse 24
            They are the spiritually dead not the physically dead they can hear the gospel , believe and receive spiritual life as John show throughout his gospel
            Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
            15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
            16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
            Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
            Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
            Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
            It will be noted the time of Jn 5:25 is now is
            while time of Jn 5:28
            is coming
            28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
            29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
            Jn 5:28 mentions the resurrection Jn 5:25 doesn't
            Jn 5:28 mentions the grave Jn 5:25 doesn't
            In Jn 5:25 both the hearing and the living are "now is" Both hearing and living are present participles showing they occur at the same time Now
            There was no resurrection of the dead in Christ before Christ himself had even died
            Your whole argument is absurd
            what we see in Jn 5:24-29
            is what we see
            Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
            where the one who believes gets everlasting life and the promise of resurrection on the last day
            stop trying to twist the bible to support a false theology
            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

            Comment


            • Originally posted by TomL View Post
              Tom replies
              You are condemned by you own words
              and should be avoided like the plague
              by editing you leave out facts
              Jn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
              25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
              26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
              27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
              28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
              29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
              The dead are first seen in verse 24
              They are the spiritually dead not the physically dead they can hear the gospel , believe and receive spiritual life as John show throughout his gospel
              Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
              15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
              16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
              Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
              Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
              Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
              It will be noted the time of Jn 5:25 is now is
              while time of Jn 5:28
              is coming
              28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
              29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
              Jn 5:28 mentions the resurrection Jn 5:25 doesn't
              Jn 5:28 mentions the grave Jn 5:25 doesn't
              In Jn 5:25 both the hearing and the living are "now is" Both hearing and living are present participles showing they occur at the same time Now
              There was no resurrection of the dead in Christ before Christ himself had even died
              Your whole argument is absurd
              what we see in Jn 5:24-29
              is what we see
              Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
              where the one who believes gets everlasting life and the promise of resurrection on the last day
              stop trying to twist the bible to support a false theology
              Is there ONE person reading this that does not KNOW that the people in the graves are dead?? I think it is a way past time that we make it clear to people like Tom that their absolutely ridiculous statements just no longer will be tolerated.... like spiritual does NOT mean physical and the people in John 5 are stone cold dead and you can take you idiotic explanation to some read dark place and leave it there.

              So the people in John 5 were DEAD. THey could hear the voice of Jesus , they were resurrected at the time off or near to , the coming of the Lord.

              That is what the bible says, that s what the bible means.

              noble

              Comment


              • Originally posted by noble View Post

                Is there ONE person reading this that does not KNOW that the people in the graves are dead?? I think it is a way past time that we make it clear to people like Tom that their absolutely ridiculous statements just no longer will be tolerated.... like spiritual does NOT mean physical and the people in John 5 are stone cold dead and you can take you idiotic explanation to some read dark place and leave it there.

                So the people in John 5 were DEAD. THey could hear the voice of Jesus , they were resurrected at the time off or near to , the coming of the Lord.

                That is what the bible says, that s what the bible means.

                noble
                Tom replies

                Actually there does seem to be one person who does not know that would be you for you claim they never die

                LOL

                ........................

                You are condemned by you own words

                and should be avoided like the plague

                by editing you leave out facts

                Jn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

                25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

                26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

                27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

                28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

                29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

                The dead are first seen in verse 24

                They are the spiritually dead not the physically dead they can hear the gospel , believe and receive spiritual life as John show throughout his gospel

                Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

                15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

                16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

                Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

                Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

                It will be noted the time of Jn 5:25 is now is

                while time of Jn 5:28

                is coming

                28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

                29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

                Jn 5:28 mentions the resurrection Jn 5:25 doesn't

                Jn 5:28 mentions the grave Jn 5:25 doesn't

                In Jn 5:25 both the hearing and the living are "now is" Both hearing and living are present participles showing they occur at the same time Now

                There was no resurrection of the dead in Christ before Christ himself had even died

                Your whole argument is absurd

                what we see in Jn 5:24-29

                is what we see

                Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

                where the one who believes gets everlasting life and the promise of resurrection on the last day

                stop trying to twist the bible to support a false theology

                Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                Comment


                • [QUOTE=TomL;

                  Like I told you , tell it to your cat.... while it;s sleeping or else it won't believe you ether.

                  noble

                  Comment


                  • [QUOTE=noble;n5268265][QUOTE=TomL;

                    Like I told you , tell it to your cat.... while it;s sleeping or else it won't believe you ether.

                    noble
                    [/QUOTE]

                    Tom notes

                    Truth advances and Noble hides

                    noble



                    Tom replies

                    Actually there does seem to be one person who does not know that would be you for you claim they never die

                    LOL

                    ........................

                    You are condemned by you own words

                    and should be avoided like the plague

                    by editing you leave out facts

                    Jn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

                    25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

                    26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

                    27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

                    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

                    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

                    The dead are first seen in verse 24

                    They are the spiritually dead not the physically dead they can hear the gospel , believe and receive spiritual life as John show throughout his gospel

                    Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

                    15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

                    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                    Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

                    Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

                    Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

                    It will be noted the time of Jn 5:25 is now is

                    while time of Jn 5:28

                    is coming

                    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

                    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

                    Jn 5:28 mentions the resurrection Jn 5:25 doesn't

                    Jn 5:28 mentions the grave Jn 5:25 doesn't

                    In Jn 5:25 both the hearing and the living are "now is" Both hearing and living are present participles showing they occur at the same time Now

                    There was no resurrection of the dead in Christ before Christ himself had even died

                    Your whole argument is absurd

                    what we see in Jn 5:24-29

                    is what we see

                    Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

                    where the one who believes gets everlasting life and the promise of resurrection on the last day

                    stop trying to twist the bible to support a false theology
                    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                    Comment


                    • TomL;

                      John 5
                      25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

                      It is Jesus talking here and He said:
                      1) a time is coming and now is.....
                      2) when the dead will hear
                      3) those who hear will live.

                      The time that NOW IS is the time when the dead will hear the voice of Jesus.
                      Yes these people are stone cold dead
                      Jesus said that those who hear His voice will hear and also live.

                      The bible does tell us that Jesus spoke to the dead people in the prison the night He died.
                      The people in the prison had been dead for quite a while and only their spirits remained as their flesh had decayed.

                      \ 28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,

                      Again Jesus says people in the tombs will hear Hi voice..

                      29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

                      As He said in verse 25 these dead people will live again and they did as they were resurrected to eternal life in heaven at or near the coming or parousia.

                      Do you understand John 5 yet? What can I help you with?
                      noble

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by noble View Post
                        TomL;

                        John 5
                        25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

                        It is Jesus talking here and He said:
                        1) a time is coming and now is.....
                        2) when the dead will hear
                        3) those who hear will live.

                        The time that NOW IS is the time when the dead will hear the voice of Jesus.
                        Yes these people are stone cold dead
                        Jesus said that those who hear His voice will hear and also live.

                        The bible does tell us that Jesus spoke to the dead people in the prison the night He died.
                        The people in the prison had been dead for quite a while and only their spirits remained as their flesh had decayed.

                        \ 28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,

                        Again Jesus says people in the tombs will hear Hi voice..

                        29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

                        As He said in verse 25 these dead people will live again and they did as they were resurrected to eternal life in heaven at or near the coming or parousia.

                        Do you understand John 5 yet? What can I help you with?
                        noble
                        Tom replies

                        Sorry you don't know what you are talking about



                        Jn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


                        25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.


                        26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;


                        27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.


                        28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,


                        29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


                        The dead are first seen in verse 24


                        They are the spiritually dead not the physically dead they can hear the gospel , believe and receive spiritual life as John show throughout his gospel


                        Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:


                        15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


                        16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


                        Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


                        Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.


                        Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


                        It will be noted the time of Jn 5:25 is now is


                        while time of Jn 5:28


                        is coming


                        28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,


                        29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


                        Jn 5:28 mentions the resurrection Jn 5:25 doesn't


                        Jn 5:28 mentions the grave Jn 5:25 doesn't


                        In Jn 5:25 both the hearing and the living are "now is" Both hearing and living are present participles showing they occur at the same time Now


                        There was no resurrection of the dead in Christ before Christ himself had even died


                        Your whole argument is absurd


                        what we see in Jn 5:24-29


                        is what we see


                        Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


                        where the one who believes gets everlasting life and the promise of resurrection on the last day


                        stop trying to twist the bible to support a false theology
                        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                        Comment


                        • [QUOTE=TomL;

                          These people were IN tombs... and you say they weren't dead!!! I'm curious, do you KNOW people who MIGHT believe that?

                          noble

                          Comment


                          • [QUOTE=noble;n5270529][QUOTE=TomL;

                            These people were IN tombs... and you say they weren't dead!!! I'm curious, do you KNOW people who MIGHT believe that?

                            noble[/QUOTE]

                            Tom replies


                            Sorry you don't know what you are talking about

                            There was no mention of tombs in Jn 5:24,25



                            Jn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


                            25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.


                            26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;


                            27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.


                            28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,


                            29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


                            The dead are first seen in verse 24


                            They are the spiritually dead not the physically dead they can hear the gospel , believe and receive spiritual life as John show throughout his gospel


                            Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:


                            15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


                            16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


                            Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


                            Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.


                            Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


                            It will be noted the time of Jn 5:25 is now is


                            while time of Jn 5:28


                            is coming


                            28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,


                            29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


                            Jn 5:28 mentions the resurrection Jn 5:25 doesn't


                            Jn 5:28 mentions the grave Jn 5:25 doesn't


                            In Jn 5:25 both the hearing and the living are "now is" Both hearing and living are present participles showing they occur at the same time Now


                            There was no resurrection of the dead in Christ before Christ himself had even died


                            Your whole argument is absurd


                            what we see in Jn 5:24-29


                            is what we see


                            Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


                            where the one who believes gets everlasting life and the promise of resurrection on the last day


                            stop trying to twist the bible to support a false theology
                            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                            Comment


                            • [QUOTE=TomL;n5271056]
                              Originally posted by noble View Post

                              Tom replies


                              Sorry you don't know what you are talking about

                              There was no mention of tombs in Jn 5:24,25



                              Jn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


                              25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.


                              26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;


                              27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.


                              28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,


                              29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


                              The dead are first seen in verse 24


                              They are the spiritually dead not the physically dead they can hear the gospel , believe and receive spiritual life as John show throughout his gospel


                              Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:


                              15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


                              16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


                              Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


                              Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.


                              Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


                              It will be noted the time of Jn 5:25 is now is


                              while time of Jn 5:28


                              is coming


                              28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,


                              29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


                              Jn 5:28 mentions the resurrection Jn 5:25 doesn't


                              Jn 5:28 mentions the grave Jn 5:25 doesn't


                              In Jn 5:25 both the hearing and the living are "now is" Both hearing and living are present participles showing they occur at the same time Now


                              There was no resurrection of the dead in Christ before Christ himself had even died


                              Your whole argument is absurd


                              what we see in Jn 5:24-29


                              is what we see


                              Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


                              where the one who believes gets everlasting life and the promise of resurrection on the last day


                              stop trying to twist the bible to support a false theology
                              Try hard and read thru more than verse 24 and 25 and see if you find tomb or grave in there....

                              noble

                              Comment


                              • [QUOTE=noble;n5271416]
                                Originally posted by TomL View Post

                                Try hard and read thru more than verse 24 and 25 and see if you find tomb or grave in there....

                                noble
                                Tom replies

                                Why would I associate a change of subject with Jn 5:24.25

                                Duh

                                Jn 5:25 and Jn 5:28,29 are speaking of different things


                                Originally posted by noble View Post


                                Tom replies

                                Sorry you don't know what you are talking about

                                There was no mention of tombs in Jn 5:24,25


                                Jn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

                                25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

                                26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

                                27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

                                28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

                                29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

                                The dead are first seen in verse 24

                                They are the spiritually dead not the physically dead they can hear the gospel , believe and receive spiritual life as John show throughout his gospel

                                Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

                                15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

                                16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                                Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

                                Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

                                Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

                                It will be noted the time of Jn 5:25 is now is

                                while time of Jn 5:28

                                is coming

                                28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

                                29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

                                Jn 5:28 mentions the resurrection Jn 5:25 doesn't

                                Jn 5:28 mentions the grave Jn 5:25 doesn't

                                In Jn 5:25 both the hearing and the living are "now is" Both hearing and living are present participles showing they occur at the same time Now

                                There was no resurrection of the dead in Christ before Christ himself had even died

                                Your whole argument is absurd

                                what we see in Jn 5:24-29

                                is what we see

                                Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

                                where the one who believes gets everlasting life and the promise of resurrection on the last day

                                stop trying to twist the bible to support a false theology



                                Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                                Comment

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