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Death the consequence/punishment for sin

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  • Death the consequence/punishment for sin

    There is a poster in this forum who denies physical death is a consequence of Adam's sin

    He states

    Physical death is and always will be a part of every man and woman's life. Physical death has nothing to do with ADAM'S DEATH!
    Adam would have physically died whether he ate the kiwi or not. Adam did NOT start physical death

    and

    NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE PHYSICAL DEATH. Physical death carries on for all of mankind forever. That is a biblical fact that you seem to have a lot of trouble with, but the bible is clear that all of us will someday physically die.

    Such a view is not only biblically ignorant it is heretical as well

    First we will look at verses showing death is a consequence of sin

    Ge 2:17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

    The very first sin as a consequence death - Punishment

    Gen 20:2 Now Abraham said of Sarah his wife, "She is my sister." And Abimelech king of Gerar sent and took Sarah.

    3 ¶ But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, "Indeed you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man’s wife."

    4 But Abimelech had not come near her; and he said, "Lord, will You slay a righteous nation also?

    5 "Did he not say to me, ‘She is my sister’? And she, even she herself said, ‘He is my brother.’ In the integrity of my heart and innocence of my hands I have done this."

    6 And God said to him in a dream, "Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her.

    7 "Now therefore, restore the man’s wife; for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you shall live. But if you do not restore her, know that you shall surely die, you and all who are yours."

    Again as a consequence of sin Abimelech would die

    De 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

    11 ¶ For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

    12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

    13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

    14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

    15 ¶ See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

    16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

    17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

    18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

    19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

    again the word of God is clear sin brings forth death

    We see the same truth in the New testament


    Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

    Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Ro 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

    30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

    31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

    32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

    Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    Ro 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

    I had also stated such a view is heretical. How so

    It denies the blood atonement of Christ

    The shedding of blood i.e. death is required for the remission of sin

    This fact is seen abundantly throughout both testaments

    Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

    Le 17:11 For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.

    Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

    Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

    Ro 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:

    Heb 9:7 But into the second part the high priest [went] alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and [for] the people’s sins [committed] in ignorance;

    Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].

    If death is not a punishment but rather a natural consequence of humanity then Jesus by virtue of becoming a man would face death

    His death would not be an atonement for sin

    There would be no blood atonement at all

    No sacrificial propitiation

    no redemption

    There would in fact be nothing vicarious in his death

    and that is heresy
    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

  • #2
    Perhaps he has never read these:


    Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
    KJV
    John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
    KJV
    John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
    KJV


    Jesus is the Bread of life, the Word of life and the Tree of life that we must feed upon to live forever!
    The purpose of my posts are not to cause bicker or division, but to show truth from the scripture for edifying of the soul. It does not matter what we think, it is what God's Word says that matters.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by afaithfulone4u View Post
      Perhaps he has never read these:


      Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
      KJV
      John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
      KJV
      John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
      KJV


      Jesus is the Bread of life, the Word of life and the Tree of life that we must feed upon to live forever!
      Yes the poster has read those... but the poster read these too:
      Romans 5
      14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
      2 Tom 1
      10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

      As well the poster understood John 11:26

      26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

      Jesus said that to Martha and Martha believed , therefore Martha could never die and she didn't.. She physically died but after 70 AD and that means she could go directly to heaven and begin LIVING again ....Martha never died.

      noble

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by noble View Post

        Yes the poster has read those... but the poster read these too:
        Romans 5
        14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
        2 Tom 1
        10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

        As well the poster understood John 11:26

        26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

        Jesus said that to Martha and Martha believed , therefore Martha could never die and she didn't.. She physically died but after 70 AD and that means she could go directly to heaven and begin LIVING again ....Martha never died.

        noble
        Tom replies

        But the poster apparently has not read the op or is unable to respond to it

        Other than that the poster fails to realize none of the verses he cites disprove death was a punishment for sin

        nor does he mitigate the damage his theology does to the atonement of Christ
        Last edited by TomL; 06-10-18, 05:57 AM.
        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TomL View Post

          Tom replies

          But the poster apparently has not read the op or is unable to respond to it

          Other than that the poster fails to realize none of the verses he cites disprove death was a punishment for sin

          nor does he mitigate the damage his theology does to the atonement of Christ
          I responded to whatever his/her name is..... I wouldn't have paid much attention to your post .

          noble

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by noble View Post

            I responded to whatever his/her name is..... I wouldn't have paid much attention to your post .

            noble
            Tom replies

            of course not you can't rebut it and would be exposed if you tried
            i
            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TomL View Post

              Tom replies

              of course not you can't rebut it and would be exposed if you tried
              i
              Ah no, that's not it!

              noble

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by noble View Post

                Ah no, that's not it!

                noble
                Tom replies

                Your lack of a reply shows otherwise

                you can't rebut it and would be exposed if you tried
                Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TomL View Post

                  Tom replies

                  Your lack of a reply shows otherwise
                  you can't rebut it and would be exposed if you tried
                  Let's see.... no , that still isn't it!

                  noble
                  Last edited by Mod8; 06-11-18, 04:34 PM. Reason: AALERT / no violation 2 X is not spam

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by noble View Post

                    Let's see.... no , that still isn't it!

                    noble
                    Tom replies

                    Actions speak louder than words

                    Your words say one thing your actions another
                    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TomL View Post

                      Tom replies

                      Actions speak louder than words

                      Your words say one thing your actions another
                      No actions and words are the same... I told you I am not interested in discussing with you on any threads I had not previously committed to because I feel there is nothing to be learned from you ..and I haven't responded to you OP. I responded to the other poster.

                      Last post from me to you on this thread.....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by noble View Post

                        No actions and words are the same... I told you I am not interested in discussing with you on any threads I had not previously committed to because I feel there is nothing to be learned from you ..and I haven't responded to you OP. I responded to the other poster.

                        Last post from me to you on this thread.....
                        Tom replies

                        Your words actually dealing with the op are non existant And you are running

                        If you are not going to address the op there is no need for you to say anything at all





                        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by afaithfulone4u View Post
                          Perhaps he has never read these:


                          Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
                          KJV
                          John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
                          KJV
                          John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
                          KJV


                          Jesus is the Bread of life, the Word of life and the Tree of life that we must feed upon to live forever!
                          According to the original poster of this thread ..I am not supposed to respond to you!!!

                          Wonder why?

                          noble

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by noble View Post

                            According to the original poster of this thread ..I am not supposed to respond to you!!!

                            Wonder why?

                            noble
                            Tom replies

                            You remain confused

                            Don't spam your non answers to the op
                            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                            Comment

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