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Still trying to nail down past/future

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  • Still trying to nail down past/future

    I'm still trying to nail down what is past and what is yet future in the preterist view. I realize that there are few if any full preterists here, so there must be a line that can be drawn somewhere delineating where preterists believe prophecy has been realized and where it is yet to be fulfilled.

    For example, since Revelation is mostly chronological, is there a chapter where one can put a bookmark and say all pages before that are finished, and all pages after that are yet to be fulfilled?

  • #2
    There are likely as many variations among full preterists and partial preterists as there are among historicists and futurists, but you will get good info on the 4-5 positions from Steve Gregg's book "Revelation - Four Views" ... and from his discussion board ... Theos ... The Narrow Path Ministries.

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    • #3
      Canada, I went to the NPM discussion board, but didn't find an answer to my question there. I understand what you are saying about variations among preterists and that there is not a single view that is held by all. So, I'm wondering if the preterists here can give me their individual interpretation of where the past/future prophetic line is. I'm betting if I get enough answers even if they disagree somewhat I can still chart a range of possibilities where I can place the "bookmark" between past and future in Scripture, particularly in Revelation.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by PhotoReality View Post
        Canada, I went to the NPM discussion board, but didn't find an answer to my question there. I understand what you are saying about variations among preterists and that there is not a single view that is held by all. So, I'm wondering if the preterists here can give me their individual interpretation of where the past/future prophetic line is. I'm betting if I get enough answers even if they disagree somewhat I can still chart a range of possibilities where I can place the "bookmark" between past and future in Scripture, particularly in Revelation.
        I would say that all in the bible is past tense.... EXCEPT.... that the judgement seat of Christ was established in 70 AD and continues until forever. So my actual experience of the coming of the Lord, I hope, is a ways away yet.

        noble

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        • #5
          Originally posted by noble View Post

          I would say that all in the bible is past tense.... EXCEPT.... that the judgement seat of Christ was established in 70 AD and continues until forever. So my actual experience of the coming of the Lord, I hope, is a ways away yet.

          noble
          Noble, I wasn't expecting that answer. So, with my "bookmark" scenario, where would be a good place to put it in Revelation. Obviously a lot closer to the back than I was guessing.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by PhotoReality View Post

            Noble, I wasn't expecting that answer. So, with my "bookmark" scenario, where would be a good place to put it in Revelation. Obviously a lot closer to the back than I was guessing.
            I see the last line of the bible as being said just before His parousia of 70 AD. However, the establishment of kingdom of heaven was at the last shake of the heavens as mATTHEW 24 TAKS ABOUT.

            That book mark may be tricky to place I think!!!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by noble View Post

              I see the last line of the bible as being said just before His parousia of 70 AD. However, the establishment of kingdom of heaven was at the last shake of the heavens as mATTHEW 24 TAKS ABOUT.
              That makes me wonder something. Since the book we know as the Bible was compiled a couple of centuries after everyone in Christ's generation was long gone, what value did the compilers place in a prophetic book (Revelation) that made them think it had importance to readers long after all of the prophesies have already taken place? Is it just purely historical?

              It's the very last book of the Bible, so why bother even putting it in if nobody can relate to it in any way?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by PhotoReality View Post

                That makes me wonder something. Since the book we know as the Bible was compiled a couple of centuries after everyone in Christ's generation was long gone, what value did the compilers place in a prophetic book (Revelation) that made them think it had importance to readers long after all of the prophesies have already taken place? Is it just purely historical?

                It's the very last book of the Bible, so why bother even putting it in if nobody can relate to it in any way?
                Good question!
                I just see the book of Revelation as being John explaining a vision He had..... I think it is just a display shown to John from the heavenly vantage point.

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                • #9
                  Those events I can verify as happening, I believe have already occurred. Generally speaking, Rev 20 is the dividing line you are looking for.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HTacianas View Post
                    Those events I can verify as happening, I believe have already occurred. Generally speaking, Rev 20 is the dividing line you are looking for.
                    OK. So I am trying to wrap my head around why those who compiled the Bible centuries after the events of AD70 had passed, and long after anyone who was alive at the time had died, thought it was important to include 19 chapters about past events important only to that narrow particular time and only to those relatively few people there at the time. What were the compilers thinking? Why was the entire book of Revelation important to them?

                    I mean, I understand why John's letters to the churches were important to them at the time. But, three centuries later and all the way to today, if Revelation chapters 1 through 19 aren't really prophesy for us today why even have those chapters in the Bible?

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                    • #11
                      The author of the Revelation writes that he was told:
                      Rev 1:19 - Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

                      See that he was told to "write the things which thou hast seen. Meaning those things past, and then those things present, and then those things yet to come. Those things the author had witnessed, and those occurring a the time, would be more clear to the writer, and would warrant more details.

                      As to your question, "..why even have those chapters in the Bible". The Revelation remains a controversial book to the Church. So many did not want it included in the bible that it is never read liturgically in any of the original Churches.

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                      • #12
                        It's simple. From jesus' Olivet Discourse in Matt. 24 & Luke 21, what HAS happened is the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, 70 AD. This was fulfillment of the "days of vengeance" against the Jews for all their murders of righteous people, prophesied by jesus. Also, there's been war/rumor of war since shortly after that time, persecution of Christians with beheadings, the rebuilt Jerusalem being trod underfoot by gentiles. These things are still occurring today.

                        What has NOT yet happened is the coming of the great beast/antichrist and his empire, the great tribulation, worst disasters ever to fall on mankind, the "abomination of desolation", and certainly the return of Jesus in great power & glory has not yet happened! This is but a short list of the events yet to come, but it's quite-obvious they have NOT yet happened!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PhotoReality View Post
                          I'm still trying to nail down what is past and what is yet future in the preterist view. I realize that there are few if any full preterists here, so there must be a line that can be drawn somewhere delineating where preterists believe prophecy has been realized and where it is yet to be fulfilled.

                          For example, since Revelation is mostly chronological, is there a chapter where one can put a bookmark and say all pages before that are finished, and all pages after that are yet to be fulfilled?
                          Originally posted by PhotoReality View Post
                          I'm still trying to nail down what is past and what is yet future in the preterist view. I realize that there are few if any full preterists here, so there must be a line that can be drawn somewhere delineating where preterists believe prophecy has been realized and where it is yet to be fulfilled.
                          Originally posted by PhotoReality View Post

                          For example, since Revelation is mostly chronological, is there a chapter where one can put a bookmark and say all pages before that are finished, and all pages after that are yet to be fulfilled?

                          Hello Photoreality

                          Noble and Sower are full preterists
                          There may be one other

                          I am a postmillennialist/amillenialist with a partial preterist interpretation of Eschatology

                          I along with many amillenialists and postmillenialists view the 1000 years period of Rev 20 to be the interadvent
                          period between the first and second physical coming of Christ. Roughly speaking

                          According to the book of revelation itself it concerns

                          Re 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and
                          the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

                          Clearly some of those things were to shortly come to pass

                          Re 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John:


                          Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TomL View Post
                            I along with many amillenialists and postmillenialists view the 1000 years period of Rev 20 to be the interadvent
                            period between the first and second physical coming of Christ. Roughly speaking
                            That's helpful. Thanks.

                            OK. So what historical, real-world timeframe does the 1,000 years you referenced encompass, and which chapters in Rev. 1-19 do those years apply to?

                            Thanks.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PhotoReality View Post

                              OK. So I am trying to wrap my head around why those who compiled the Bible centuries after the events of AD70 had passed, and long after anyone who was alive at the time had died, thought it was important to include 19 chapters about past events important only to that narrow particular time and only to those relatively few people there at the time. What were the compilers thinking? Why was the entire book of Revelation important to them?

                              I mean, I understand why John's letters to the churches were important to them at the time. But, three centuries later and all the way to today, if Revelation chapters 1 through 19 aren't really prophesy for us today why even have those chapters in the Bible?
                              PhotoReality,

                              Good question!

                              Perhaps, for the same reason other fulfilled chapters were placed in the Bible...To make known the history of God's dealing with man, and the way of salvation to all generations!
                              They profess that they know God; but in works they deny Him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 1:16

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