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Full Preterism's problem with the 1000 year reign

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  • Full Preterism's problem with the 1000 year reign

    Full Preterism has a problem with this passage

    Revelation 20:1-4 (KJV)
    1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    I will explain below

    Full Preterism believes Christ came in 70 A.D. and fulfilled all prophesy.
    The 1000 years must therefore logically have transpired before 70 A.D.

    A literal 1000 years reign would place the reign's beginning at no earlier than 930 A.D.

    Of course many do not view the 1000 years as literal but symbolic of a very long period of time.
    The problem here is most who hold to a symbolic 1000 years equate it to the entire church age.
    or at least to a very long time larger than a 1000 years

    A further complication for Full Preterism is that it holds the second coming was immediately after the tribulation
    so the 1000 year reign logically must be before the tribulation as well

    but the 1000 years in addition to being a period where Satan is bound is also a period where those who were beheaded
    for their testimony of Christ and not worshipping the beast during the tribulation live and reign with Christ

    How can you have tribulation martyrs living and reigning when there was of yet no tribulation and therefore no tribulation Martyrs

    The difficulties faced by full preterist were in evidence in a pair of discussions I had with Full Preterists regarding this matter

    One full preterist noting mention of a first and second resurrection separated by the 1000 year period and referencing
    the fact the resurrection was on the last day


    John 6:39 (KJV)
    39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

    John 6:40 (KJV)
    40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 6:44 (KJV)
    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 6:54 (KJV)
    54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 12:48 (KJV)
    48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    claimed the 1000 year period was really but one day or a part thereof

    Is this the impression one gets from the mention of a 1000 year period ?

    Hardly

    Another Full Preterist I dialogued with affirmed

    Yes the 1000 years are before the tribulation but also The 1000 year period encompasses the entire church age and that we are still in the 1000 year period

    How the 1000 year period could be ongoing today and before the tribulation in a belief system where the tribulation is stated to have transpired around 70 A.D.
    is never logically explained




    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

  • #2

    Tom adds

    Update said second preterist has clarified position and does not hold to the entire church age to be the period in which Satan is bound but rather claims Satan was bound until the fifth seal.

    The upshot is said preterist must cram the 1000 years into a period that is roughly between 30 and 67 A.D. or less than 40 years

    This more typically what is claimed by Full Preterists

    so I will ask the readers to determine for themselves is that what you would imagine the inspired author was trying to convey with the phrase a 1000 years

    An interesting corollary to this is said preterist believes the right to reign a 1000 years with Christ (the period in which Satan is bound); is granted to all believers and quotes

    1 Peter 2:5-9 (NASB)
    5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
    6 For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
    7 This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"
    8 and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.
    9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

    as a proof text

    Are we to understand believers are a royal priesthood, a chosen race , living stones only between the years of 30 and 67 A.D. ?

    I guess the believers of the first century lost their right to reign and be a chosen nation after 36 years or so and those born after 67 A.D. never are granted that right at all ?

    or are we to believe that 1000 years is of a different value than the 1000 years Satan is bound

    Such are the vagaries of Full Preterism
    Last edited by TomL; 08-07-18, 06:29 AM.
    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TomL View Post
      Tom adds

      Update said second preterist has clarified position and does not hold to the entire church age to be the period in which Satan is bound but rather claims Satan was bound until the fifth seal.

      The upshot is said preterist must cram the 1000 years into a period that is roughly between 30 and 67 A.D. or less than 40 years

      This more typically what is claimed by Full Preterists

      so I will ask the readers to determine for themselves is that what you would imagine the inspired author was trying to convey with the phrase a 1000 years

      An interesting corollary to this is said preterist believes the right to reign a 1000 years with Christ (the period in which Satan is bound); is granted to all believers and quotes

      1 Peter 2:5-9 (NASB)
      5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
      6 For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
      7 This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"
      8 and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.
      9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

      as a proof text

      Are we to understand believers are a royal priesthood, a chosen race , living stones only between the years of 30 and 67 A.D. ?

      I guess the believers of the first century lost their right to reign and be a chosen nation after 36 years or so and those born after 67 A.D. never are granted that right at all ?

      or are we to believe that 1000 years is of a different value than the 1000 years Satan is bound

      Such are the vagaries of Full Preterism
      Here is the first resurrection:
      1 COR 15

      23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christís at His coming,

      That is the first resurrection after the rise of Christ Himself.... at the coming. The second resurrection is 1000 years after that.

      Rev 20
      5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.

      So the first resurrection contained this people indicated in Rev 20:4 , those who were killed for testimony of Jesus and resisted the breast. They were all righteous, no wicked people in in.

      Matthew 25:31 to 46 tells us of another resurrection which DOES have wicked in it and that resurrection is pegged at being at the coming also... the same day. The same day or last day is indicated in John 6:40 and John 12:48. The bible speaks of 1000 years to God being one day so no problem. Having said that there is indications that Jesus had destroyed death earlier than 70 AD so some feel the resurrection may have began for a special few earlier than 70 AD You would have to ask them for details.

      Daniel 12: also talks about resurrection close to the great trib which is fine tuned for us in Daniel 12:13 at being at the end of that age. Of course the end of the age is here:
      1 Corinthians 10:11 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
      11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

      My guess at the symbolism and a guess is all anybody ha got, is that there are two time factors described in Rev 20:4 and 6. One is the time BETWEEN the two resurrections which I say is one day and there is the time each resurrecttee will reign will with Jesus and I say that is forever.

      Whether that is right or not couldn't matter less because the whole thing was over 2000 years ago anyway!

      noble

      Comment


      • #4
        Tom replies

        Noble highlights the full Preterist problem with the 1000 years

        According to Noble it is less than a whole day as he tries to squeeze the first resurrection, the 1000 years and the second resurrection
        into the last day

        So I guess when the bible states god owns the cattle on a 1000 hills he rreally own the cattle on just a single hill

        and when we are told God keeps covenant and mercy for a 1000 generations he really only does so for a single generation

        absurdity upon absurdity

        and while he alludes to Daniel 12 it does not speak of two separate resurrections nor does the verse actually state what Noble claims

        what it does do is announce the ultimate destiny of those who are and are not written in the book at the resurrection

        In any case all who believe or will ever believe are raised at the last day

        so the last cannot have been at 70 A.D.

        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

        Comment


        • #5
          TomL;

          Here is the post Tom, deal with what is written in that.... you can explain what the verse should say

          Here is the first resurrection:
          1 COR 15

          23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christís at His coming,

          That is the first resurrection after the rise of Christ Himself.... at the coming. The second resurrection is 1000 years after that.

          Rev 20
          5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.

          So the first resurrection contained this people indicated in Rev 20:4 , those who were killed for testimony of Jesus and resisted the breast. They were all righteous, no wicked people in in.

          Matthew 25:31 to 46 tells us of another resurrection which DOES have wicked in it and that resurrection is pegged at being at the coming also... the same day. The same day or last day is indicated in John 6:40 and John 12:48. The bible speaks of 1000 years to God being one day so no problem. Having said that there is indications that Jesus had destroyed death earlier than 70 AD so some feel the resurrection may have began for a special few earlier than 70 AD You would have to ask them for details.

          Daniel 12: also talks about resurrection close to the great trib which is fine tuned for us in Daniel 12:13 at being at the end of that age. Of course the end of the age is here:
          1 Corinthians 10:11 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
          11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

          My guess at the symbolism and a guess is all anybody ha got, is that there are two time factors described in Rev 20:4 and 6. One is the time BETWEEN the two resurrections which I say is one day and there is the time each resurrecttee will reign will with Jesus and I say that is forever.

          Whether that is right or not couldn't matter less because the whole thing was over 2000 years ago anyway!

          noble

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by noble View Post
            TomL;

            Here is the post Tom, deal with what is written in that.... you can explain what the verse should say

            Here is the first resurrection:
            1 COR 15

            23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,

            That is the first resurrection after the rise of Christ Himself.... at the coming. The second resurrection is 1000 years after that.

            Rev 20
            5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.

            So the first resurrection contained this people indicated in Rev 20:4 , those who were killed for testimony of Jesus and resisted the breast. They were all righteous, no wicked people in in.

            Matthew 25:31 to 46 tells us of another resurrection which DOES have wicked in it and that resurrection is pegged at being at the coming also... the same day. The same day or last day is indicated in John 6:40 and John 12:48. The bible speaks of 1000 years to God being one day so no problem. Having said that there is indications that Jesus had destroyed death earlier than 70 AD so some feel the resurrection may have began for a special few earlier than 70 AD You would have to ask them for details.

            Daniel 12: also talks about resurrection close to the great trib which is fine tuned for us in Daniel 12:13 at being at the end of that age. Of course the end of the age is here:
            1 Corinthians 10:11 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
            11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

            My guess at the symbolism and a guess is all anybody ha got, is that there are two time factors described in Rev 20:4 and 6. One is the time BETWEEN the two resurrections which I say is one day and there is the time each resurrecttee will reign will with Jesus and I say that is forever.

            Whether that is right or not couldn't matter less because the whole thing was over 2000 years ago anyway!

            noble
            Tom replies

            You already posted that elsewhere

            Stick to the op

            Tom replies

            Noble highlights the full Preterist problem with the 1000 years

            According to Noble it is less than a whole day as he tries to squeeze the first resurrection, the 1000 years and the second resurrection
            into the last day

            So I guess when the bible states god owns the cattle on a 1000 hills he rreally own the cattle on just a single hill

            and when we are told God keeps covenant and mercy for a 1000 generations he really only does so for a single generation

            absurdity upon absurdity

            and while he alludes to Daniel 12 it does not speak of two separate resurrections nor does the verse actually state what Noble claims

            what it does do is announce the ultimate destiny of those who are and are not written in the book at the resurrection

            In any case all who believe or will ever believe are raised at the last day

            so the last cannot have been at 70 A.D.
            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

            Comment


            • #7
              TomL;

              I explained how I see the resurrections/1000 years a s a full preterist but I guess you missed it so here it is again...

              Here is the first resurrection:
              1 COR 15

              23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christís at His coming,

              That is the first resurrection after the rise of Christ Himself.... at the coming. The second resurrection is 1000 years after that.

              Rev 20
              5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.

              So the first resurrection contained this people indicated in Rev 20:4 , those who were killed for testimony of Jesus and resisted the breast. They were all righteous, no wicked people in in.

              Matthew 25:31 to 46 tells us of another resurrection which DOES have wicked in it and that resurrection is pegged at being at the coming also... the same day. The same day or last day is indicated in John 6:40 and John 12:48. The bible speaks of 1000 years to God being one day so no problem. Having said that there is indications that Jesus had destroyed death earlier than 70 AD so some feel the resurrection may have began for a special few earlier than 70 AD You would have to ask them for details.

              Daniel 12: also talks about resurrection close to the great trib which is fine tuned for us in Daniel 12:13 at being at the end of that age. Of course the end of the age is here:
              1 Corinthians 10:11 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
              11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

              My guess at the symbolism and a guess is all anybody ha got, is that there are two time factors described in Rev 20:4 and 6. One is the time BETWEEN the two resurrections which I say is one day and there is the time each resurrecttee will reign will with Jesus and I say that is forever.

              Whether that is right or not couldn't matter less because the whole thing was over 2000 years ago anyway!

              You already posted that elsewhere
              Oh you saw it? Well then why not respond to it?

              Stick to the op
              You mean the one about the 1000 years? That's what I did....


              According to Noble it is less than a whole day as he tries to squeeze the first resurrection, the 1000 years and the second resurrection
              into the last day
              Yea, yea, you got it!

              So I guess when the bible states god owns the cattle on a 1000 hills he rreally own the cattle on just a single hill
              That guess is as good as any.... but actually He doesn't like cows , he is more into lama , sheep and goats.

              and when we are told God keeps covenant and mercy for a 1000 generations he really only does so for a single generation
              Another guess.. except this one contradicts scripture.
              and while he alludes to Daniel 12 it does not speak of two separate resurrections nor does the verse actually state what Noble claims
              There is no wonder you don't understand heavenly things. Daniel is talking about righteous and wicked being raised which is only ONE of the resurrections, the second one! It takes time to learn Tom, even longer when you refuse to listen.

              what it does do is announce the ultimate destiny of those who are and are not written in the book at the resurrection
              Okay.... that would be righteous and wicked wouldn't it?

              In any case all who believe or will ever believe are raised at the last day

              so the last cannot have been at 70 A.D.
              You have missed the point by x miles.

              The DEAD who are resurrected are all people who physically died BEFORE the last trump. Since that last trump there is no need for any resurrections because nobody ever sleeps waiting for a resurrection after that last trump. From then on no righteou person ever dies so there is no need of a resurrection. There is a judgment after death which will determine instantly whether we make the cut or we don't.

              So Tom there is no future resurrections of the dead , they were boh 2000 years ago. You, me and all others face the judgment seat of Christ after our death.

              noble

              Comment


              • #8
                Tom replies

                I don't need your repetitions Noble

                The bottomline is you define the period known as the 1000 years as less than a single day

                So I guess you believe the Martyrs reward for not worshipping the beast and giving up their lives is less than one day of reigning with Christ

                and Satan was stopped from deceiving the nations for but part of a single day

                Clearly you demonstrate the full preterist's problem with the 1000 years

                Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                Comment


                • #9
                  TomL;

                  I don't need your repetitions Noble
                  Yes Tom you do. In fact in most posts you don't retain a thing....we have to give it to you over and over and over and .....

                  The bottomline is you define the period known as the 1000 years as less than a single day
                  That is how I see the symbolism yes. The same last day. Let's go thru it briefly again....

                  1 COR 15:23 tells us the first resurrection is at the coming. That first resurrection has only righteous in it. SO John 6:40 tells us righteous are raised the last day. However there are a lot more righteous people who died prior to the last trump than just those of Rev 20:4 and 6. Daniel was a righteous guy and he was raised to eternal life at the end of the age which is somehow close to the great tribulation.SO there are righteous in that resurrection to so that means they would have been raised the last day. As Matt 25:31 tells us that was sometime near the coming..... same day!!!!!!!!
                  There was also wicked raised at the end of the age as Daniel was... again same day..


                  So I guess you believe the Martyrs reward for not worshipping the beast and giving up their lives is less than one day of reigning with Christ
                  No, as I told you that would be symbolic for ...forever! I told you , I see the symbolism for the 1000 years referring to two things, one - the time between the resurrections, two the length of the reign. 2 Peter 3:8 makes each possible.
                  and Satan was stopped from deceiving the nations for but part of a single day
                  Yes and he did something for a short while and then got abyssed for good...Satan is gone but the evil he had with him will stay on earth forever... you just will never see any talking snakes.

                  ]
                  Clearly you demonstrate the full preterist's problem with the 1000 years
                  Bet you another 6 doughnut holes you can't put a biblical hole in the explanation... please try, I want to know if there is anything biblical that contradicts me.In case you didn't know , believing what the bible DOESN'T say benefits you nothing!

                  noble

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Tom replies

                    Sorry you cant escape it Noble

                    You have Satan bound for less than a single day

                    A 1000 year binding reduced to less than a day

                    It's rather irrational Noble

                    I guess you also believe that when the bible states God keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations you believe it is but one generation ?

                    That we owns the cattle not on a thousand hills but one hill ?

                    He remembers his word but for one generation ?

                    Rev 20 shows us the Martyrs reign is coterminous with the binding of Satan

                    So you have a one day reign despite your protests

                    It's rather obvious you have a major problem with the 1000 years


                    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      TomL;
                      Sorry you cant escape it Noble
                      I could escape my belief system easy. All I need is a reason to believe differently than I do now. I'm not dumb, I know that believing what the bible DOES NOT say is dumber than a sack full of hammers.

                      You have Satan bound for less than a single day

                      A 1000 year binding reduced to less than a day
                      And he needed it too!

                      I guess you also believe that when the bible states God keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations you believe it is but one generation ?
                      I think you better quit guessing , you're off track pretty bad.

                      That we owns the cattle not on a thousand hills but one hill ?
                      He can have as many cattle as He wants.

                      He remembers his word but for one generation ?
                      Let me point out just how ridiculous that is....The events of Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 will be seen by ONE generation. Jesus will return to ..John 14... that is all generations all believers for all time... YOU have to get a grip on what the bible is talking about.... nice little Catholic bible study?????

                      Rev 20 shows us the Martyrs reign is coterminous with the binding of Satan
                      Not only is it coterminous, it's at the same time too!!!!!

                      So you have a one day reign despite your protests
                      The reign with Jesus is forever. The time between the resurrections is one day.

                      It's rather obvious you have a major problem with the 1000 years
                      You find a problem because it doesn't fit your doctrine.... don't be surprised by that.

                      noble

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Previous conversation went



                        Rev 20 shows us the Martyrs reign is coterminous with the binding of Satan


                        Noble states
                        Not only is it coterminous, it's at the same time too!!!!!

                        Tom replies

                        There you have it readers

                        Noble believes the Martyr reign for but part of a single day

                        We already know he believes Satan was bound for but a part of a single day

                        There is no need to say anything further






                        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          TomL




                          Rev 20 shows us the Martyrs reign is coterminous with the binding of Satan


                          Noble states
                          Not only is it coterminous, it's at the same time too!!!!!

                          Tom replies

                          There you have it readers

                          Noble believes the Martyr reign for but part of a single day
                          Whoops... Satan was ... well here is from John...

                          3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that,
                          he must be set free for a short time.
                          So after the symbolic 1000 years Satan would be abyssed again... anybody who has ever been abyssed would know how hindering it is!!!

                          We already know he believes Satan was bound for but a part of a single day
                          Yes, then let go and then done in for good... the sulfur lake wasn't it?

                          There is no need to say anything further
                          Ah, yes there is a God...thank you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                          noble






                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by noble View Post
                            TomL




                            Rev 20 shows us the Martyrs reign is coterminous with the binding of Satan


                            Noble states
                            [LEFT][COLOR=#252C2F][FONT=Helvetica]Not only is it coterminous, it's at the same time too!!!!!

                            Tom replies



                            Whoops... Satan was ... well here is from John...

                            3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that,

                            So after the symbolic 1000 years Satan would be abyssed again... anybody who has ever been abyssed would know how hindering it is!!!



                            Yes, then let go and then done in for good... the sulfur lake wasn't it?



                            Ah, yes there is a God...thank you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                            Tom replies

                            If you are happy with the confession

                            There you have it readers

                            Noble believes the Martyr reign for but part of a single day

                            I am happy to let you live with it



                            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TomL View Post

                              Tom replies

                              If you are happy with the confession

                              There you have it readers

                              Noble believes the Martyr reign for but part of a single day

                              I am happy to let you live with it


                              Boy you sure have trouble grasping stuff.... the martyrs reign with Christ forever, just as all of us who believe will do. However, Satan was abyssed only during the time between the two resurrections... know how I know????

                              7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earthóGog and Magogóand to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of Godís people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them

                              noble

                              Comment

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