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Calvin's Institutes and Full Preterism

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  • #16
    Originally posted by reformedguy View Post
    And full preterism is not hyper-preteristm. There are several things a hyper-preterist believes a full-preterist does not such as universalism.
    I would agree that the terms are not interchangeable. Both though are heretical, the later being more severe than the former. I had a friend involved with full preterism a few years ago. There was not any sort of consistent theological grid for those embracing "full preterism." Some of his friends were universalists, some simply denied eternal punishment, etc.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by James Swan View Post

      I would agree that the terms are not interchangeable. Both though are heretical, the later being more severe than the former. I had a friend involved with full preterism a few years ago. There was not any sort of consistent theological grid for those embracing "full preterism." Some of his friends were universalists, some simply denied eternal punishment, etc.
      ok I guess it is all a matter of perspective. Previously the information I had seen equated the two and from a partial preterist perspective that would make sense. As there has been movement in the position other ideas have come forth even more radical and from the original full perspective hyper Preterism.
      Thanks for posting

      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by TomL View Post

        Tom replies

        That is not what the article states

        Again, neither full preterism nor hyperpreterism is universalism. First of all, a hyperpreterist could not be a universalist because, according to the hyperpreterists, no one after AD 70 has eternal life. This view clearly denies universalism. After all, universalism says that all men everywhere throughout all time have or will have eternal life through any path they take

        As noted there are various views on this issue

        and again it was the author who linked them not me



        For a guy who claims to be undecided why do you show so much concern

        However if you want to erase hyper from his words I am ok with it

        Those who think Calvinism and full preterism are compatible reveal their complete ignorance of Calvin.

        Tell me being reformed do you view the creeds as a standard of unity ?

        If so which ones ?
        Why do you assume this article has any authority whatsoever? It's one man's opinion.

        They can be a standard of unity, of course. Does that mean one must walk in lockstep with every jot and tittle of any particular creed? Your not judging ones salvation on conformity to any particular creed are you Tom? This is why we Reformed are often charged with putting our creeds above scripture.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

          Why do you assume this article has any authority whatsoever? It's one man's opinion.

          They can be a standard of unity, of course. Does that mean one must walk in lockstep with every jot and tittle of any particular creed? Your not judging ones salvation on conformity to any particular creed are you Tom? This is why we Reformed are often charged with putting our creeds above scripture.
          Tom replies

          So being reformed I should consider his opinion worthless ?

          In any case it was a discussion starter

          As for the creeds we are talking a whole lot more than a jot or a title

          I have not mentioned salvation

          I mentioned a standard of unity among the reformed

          Do you hold to the creeds ?

          Which ones ?



          Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by TomL View Post

            Tom replies

            So being reformed I should consider his opinion worthless ?

            In any case it was a discussion starter

            As for the creeds we are talking a whole lot more than a jot or a title

            I have not mentioned salvation

            I mentioned a standard of unity among the reformed

            Do you hold to the creeds ?

            Which ones ?


            I didn't say worthless did I? It's one of how many?

            Westminster, Belgic, basically the three forms of unity. Do I agree with everything in those confessions? Nope. A confession is a summary not a standard by which to judge.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

              I didn't say worthless did I? It's one of how many?

              Westminster, Belgic, basically the three forms of unity. Do I agree with everything in those confessions? Nope. A confession is a summary not a standard by which to judge.
              Tom replies

              Lets start with the Westminster

              Observe some parts which Full Preterist are not in accord with

              I. Our first parents, begin seduced by the subtilty and temptations of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory.

              II. By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and so became dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body.

              VI. Every sin, both original and actual, being a transgression of the righteous law of God, and contrary thereunto, doth, in its own nature, bring guilt upon the sinner, whereby he is bound over to the wrath of God, and curse of the law, and so made subject to death, with all miseries spiritual, temporal, and eternal.

              Westminster Confession of Faith (1646).


              II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed: and all the dead shall be raised up with the self-same bodies, and none other, although with different qualities, which shall be united again to their souls forever.

              III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor; the bodies of the just, by his Spirit, unto honor, and be made conformable to his own glorious body.


              Westminster Confession of Faith (1646).

              On the third day he arose from the dead, with the same body in which he suffered; with which also he ascended into heaven, and there sitteth at the right hand of his Father, making intercession; and shall return to judge men and angels, at the end of the world.

              Westminster Confession of Faith (1646).

              I. God hath appointed a day, wherein he will judge the world in righteousness by Jesus Christ, to whom all power and judgment is given of the Father. In which day, not only the apostate angels shall be judged; but likewise all persons, that have lived upon earth, shall appear before the tribunal of Christ, to give an account of their thoughts, words, and deeds; and to receive according to what they have done in the body, whether good or evil.

              Westminster Confession of Faith (1646).
              Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by TomL View Post

                Tom replies

                Lets start with the Westminster

                Observe some parts which Full Preterist are not in accord with

                I. Our first parents, begin seduced by the subtilty and temptations of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory.

                II. By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and so became dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body.

                VI. Every sin, both original and actual, being a transgression of the righteous law of God, and contrary thereunto, doth, in its own nature, bring guilt upon the sinner, whereby he is bound over to the wrath of God, and curse of the law, and so made subject to death, with all miseries spiritual, temporal, and eternal.

                Westminster Confession of Faith (1646).


                II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed: and all the dead shall be raised up with the self-same bodies, and none other, although with different qualities, which shall be united again to their souls forever.

                III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor; the bodies of the just, by his Spirit, unto honor, and be made conformable to his own glorious body.


                Westminster Confession of Faith (1646).

                On the third day he arose from the dead, with the same body in which he suffered; with which also he ascended into heaven, and there sitteth at the right hand of his Father, making intercession; and shall return to judge men and angels, at the end of the world.

                Westminster Confession of Faith (1646).

                I. God hath appointed a day, wherein he will judge the world in righteousness by Jesus Christ, to whom all power and judgment is given of the Father. In which day, not only the apostate angels shall be judged; but likewise all persons, that have lived upon earth, shall appear before the tribunal of Christ, to give an account of their thoughts, words, and deeds; and to receive according to what they have done in the body, whether good or evil.

                Westminster Confession of Faith (1646).
                Yes and? So what. What's your view of the LBCF and it's differences with the WCF? Are Reformed Baptists heretics?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

                  Yes and? So what. What's your view of the LBCF and it's differences with the WCF? Are Reformed Baptists heretics?
                  Tom replies

                  So what ? Those are the standards of unity among the reformed

                  Full Preterism obviously does not meet the standards

                  The reformed Baptist don't deny any of what I noted

                  LBCF ? Long beach Christian fellowship Don't know a thing about them.

                  Are they the same as the Long Beach Christian Reformed Church ?

                  Are they pertinent to the discussion ?

                  Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by TomL View Post

                    Tom replies

                    So what ? Those are the standards of unity among the reformed

                    Full Preterism obviously does not meet the standards

                    The reformed Baptist don't deny any of what I noted

                    LBCF ? Long beach Christian fellowship Don't know a thing about them.

                    Are they the same as the Long Beach Christian Reformed Church ?

                    Are they pertinent to the discussion ?
                    London Baptist Confession of Faith, lol. Ignorance is bliss they say.

                    So your judging orthodoxy based on a confession of faith?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

                      London Baptist Confession of Faith, lol. Ignorance is bliss they say.

                      So your judging orthodoxy based on a confession of faith?
                      Tom replies

                      No I am judging a standard of unity among those who say they are reformed

                      as claimed by the reformed church itself

                      BTW you would not be claiming the London Baptist confession of faith disavows
                      the items I noted would you ?

                      PS I looked at the confession (1689) and it seems a pretty standard Calvinist doctrine at first glance

                      certainly nothing like what Full Preterists believe

                      So why do you mention them ?
                      Last edited by TomL; 09-17-18, 11:53 AM.
                      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by TomL View Post

                        Tom replies

                        No I am judging a standard of unity among those who say they are reformed

                        as claimed by the reformed church itself

                        BTW you would not be claiming the London Baptist confession of faith disavows
                        the items I noted would you ?
                        They do claimed to be Reformed and disavow infant baptism those who adhere to the LBCF. Uh oh! What say you heresy hunter? Are they Reformed really?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

                          They do claimed to be Reformed and disavow infant baptism those who adhere to the LBCF. Uh oh! What say you heresy hunter? Are they Reformed really?
                          Tom replies

                          Once again I need remind you it is a standard of unity among the reformed which is being addressed here

                          not a matter of heresy

                          and I am not reformed so I would not automatically view non conformity to a reformed creed especially on the matter of baptism a heresy

                          Seems to me however they certainly are in more conformity to say the Westminster creed than are full Preterists

                          And remember it is the Westminster creed you cited as a standard of unity not the London Baptist confession of faith



                          Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            [QUOTE=TomL;n5505241]

                            Tom replies

                            Once again I need remind you it is a standard of unity among the reformed which is being addressed here

                            not a matter of heresy

                            and I am not reformed so I would not automatically view non conformity to a reformed creed especially on the matter of baptism a heresy

                            Seems to me however they certainly are in more conformity to say the Westminster creed than are full Preterists

                            And remember it is the Westminster creed you cited as a standard of unity not the London Baptist confession of faith



                            The LBCF and the WCF are virtually identical, baptism being one of the differences. So on most issues we would be unified. On the topic of baptism we would not.

                            So if your not Reformed what are you? Let's hear the denomination that all agree 100% of the time. Totally unified on every and all issues.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              [QUOTE=reformedguy;n5510809]
                              Originally posted by TomL View Post

                              Tom replies

                              Once again I need remind you it is a standard of unity among the reformed which is being addressed here

                              not a matter of heresy

                              and I am not reformed so I would not automatically view non conformity to a reformed creed especially on the matter of baptism a heresy

                              Seems to me however they certainly are in more conformity to say the Westminster creed than are full Preterists

                              And remember it is the Westminster creed you cited as a standard of unity not the London Baptist confession of faith



                              The LBCF and the WCF are virtually identical, baptism being one of the differences. So on most issues we would be unified. On the topic of baptism we would not.

                              So if your not Reformed what are you? Let's hear the denomination that all agree 100% of the time. Totally unified on every and all issues.
                              Tom replies

                              No denomination agrees 100 % of the time but you are missing the point, These are not mere peripheral issues we are talking about

                              Full Preterism rejects essentials accepted by every Christian denomination. It is not just a matter of eschatology for to maintain its eschatology Full

                              Preterism compromises other doctrines such as the future return of Christ, the resurrection, the universal Judgment, the nature of the fall, the full redemption that is in Christ and his final victory over all enemies

                              Why trivialize the differences ?

                              Comparing the WCF and the LBCF does not come anywhere near such disagreements









                              Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                [QUOTE=TomL;n5511819]
                                Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

                                Tom replies

                                No denomination agrees 100 % of the time but you are missing the point, These are not mere peripheral issues we are talking about

                                Full Preterism rejects essentials accepted by every Christian denomination. It is not just a matter of eschatology for to maintain its eschatology Full

                                Preterism compromises other doctrines such as the future return of Christ, the resurrection, the universal Judgment, the nature of the fall, the full redemption that is in Christ and his final victory over all enemies

                                Why trivialize the differences ?

                                Comparing the WCF and the LBCF does not come anywhere near such disagreements








                                They dont? Lol Really?

                                Full Preterist believe in the fall, the resurrection, universal judgement, full redemption, the return of Christ when He said He would return. I think you have some homework to do.

                                Comment

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