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Calvin's Institutes and Full Preterism

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  • #76
    Originally posted by TomL View Post

    Tom replies

    No

    No not yet

    again not yet. it does not say he returned

    You want to address what I asked now

    Tom replies


    So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?

    That is what you seriously believe ?

    This below you never addressed previously


    So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?


    Are you answering yes to this now ?
    and you think that is a credible position ?

    Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well

    1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

    15
    For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
    16
    For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
    17
    Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.
    but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



    1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV)
    51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
    must
    put on immortality.
    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
    and had put on immortality but somehow still manged to die


    I have objective reality in support

    and your position does not


    you need to address this
    So then Paul was simply mistaken then I take it? He does promise them Christ would come to give them relief or rest right? So unless Paul was mistaken it must have occured within their lifetimes right?? Again, stick to 2 Thessalonians 1. I'm not chasing your rabbit trails.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

      So then Paul was simply mistaken then I take it? He does promise them Christ would come to give them relief or rest right? So unless Paul was mistaken it must have occured within their lifetimes right?? Again, stick to 2 Thessalonians 1. I'm not chasing your rabbit trails.
      Tom replies

      do you ever address anything ?

      Previously

      No

      No not yet

      again not yet. it does not say he returned

      You want to address what I asked now


      Tom replies


      So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?

      That is what you seriously believe ?

      This below you never addressed

      So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?



      Are you answering yes to this now ?

      and you think that is a credible position ?

      Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well


      1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

      15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
      16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
      17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.

      but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



      1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV) 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

      52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

      53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
      mustput on immortality.

      54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

      and had put on immortality but somehow still mange to die


      I have objective reality in support

      and your position does not

      you need to address this

      ….....................

      PS I told you previously you assume temporal rest is refered to but that is not what is promised

      Paul was not mistaken your temporal assumption was mistaken

      Please do answer the above questions

      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by TomL View Post

        Tom replies

        do you ever address anything ?

        Previously

        No

        No not yet

        again not yet. it does not say he returned

        You want to address what I asked now


        Tom replies


        So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?

        That is what you seriously believe ?

        This below you never addressed

        So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?



        Are you answering yes to this now ?

        and you think that is a credible position ?

        Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well


        1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

        15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
        16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
        17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.

        but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



        1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV) 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

        52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

        53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
        mustput on immortality.

        54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

        and had put on immortality but somehow still mange to die


        I have objective reality in support

        and your position does not

        you need to address this

        ….....................

        PS I told you previously you assume temporal rest is refered to but that is not what is promised

        Paul was not mistaken your temporal assumption was mistaken

        Please do answer the above questions

        So Paul, in 2 Thessalonians is mistaken then?

        The relief or rest in 2 Thessalonians 1 is from persecution. That is the context. So are they still waiting for their rest or relief?

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

          So Paul, in 2 Thessalonians is mistaken then?

          The relief or rest in 2 Thessalonians 1 is from persecution. That is the context. So are they still waiting for their rest or relief?
          Tom replies

          Oh look another opportunity to finally answer something you waste

          Tom replies

          do you ever address anything ?

          Previously


          No


          No not yet


          again not yet. it does not say he returned


          You want to address what I asked now


          Tom replies



          So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?


          That is what you seriously believe ?

          This below you never addressed



          So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?



          Are you answering yes to this now ?

          and you think that is a credible position ?


          Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well


          1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

          15
          For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
          16
          For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
          17
          Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.

          but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



          1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV)
          51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

          52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

          53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
          must
          put on immortality.

          54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

          and had put on immortality but somehow still mange to die



          I have objective reality in support

          and your position does not



          you need to address this

          ….....................

          PS I told you previously you assume temporal rest is refered to but that is not what is promised

          Paul was not mistaken your temporal assumption was mistaken

          Please do answer the above questions


          and forget your assumptions. What you imagine Paul to be promising did not happen



          Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by TomL View Post

            Tom replies

            Oh look another opportunity to finally answer something you waste

            Tom replies

            do you ever address anything ?

            Previously


            No


            No not yet


            again not yet. it does not say he returned


            You want to address what I asked now


            Tom replies



            So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?


            That is what you seriously believe ?

            This below you never addressed



            So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?



            Are you answering yes to this now ?

            and you think that is a credible position ?


            Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well


            1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

            15
            For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
            16
            For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
            17
            Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.

            but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



            1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV)
            51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

            52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

            53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
            must
            put on immortality.

            54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

            and had put on immortality but somehow still mange to die



            I have objective reality in support

            and your position does not



            you need to address this

            ….....................

            PS I told you previously you assume temporal rest is refered to but that is not what is promised

            Paul was not mistaken your temporal assumption was mistaken

            Please do answer the above questions


            and forget your assumptions. What you imagine Paul to be promising did not happen


            I will just keep asking until you answer. Did Christ return in His kingdom with His angels to the church at Thessalonica to give the rest or relief to those who persecuted them? Or was Paul mistaken? Those would seem, logically, to be your only two options

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

              I will just keep asking until you answer. Did Christ return in His kingdom with His angels to the church at Thessalonica to give the rest or relief to those who persecuted them? Or was Paul mistaken? Those would seem, logically, to be your only two options
              Tom replies

              You need to do more than just asking

              You need to read replies and answer question

              What part of no is not clear

              No Paul was not mistaken your presumpositions are mistaken

              answer questions for a change
              Tom replies
              Oh look another opportunity to finally answer something you waste



              Tom replies


              do you ever address anything ?

              Previously

              No


              No not yet


              again not yet. it does not say he returned


              You want to address what I asked now




              Tom replies


              So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?


              That is what you seriously believe ?

              This below you never addressed


              So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?





              Are you answering yes to this now ?


              and you think that is a credible position ?

              Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well




              1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

              15
              For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
              16
              For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
              17
              Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.


              but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



              1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV)
              51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


              52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


              53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
              must
              put on immortality.


              54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


              and had put on immortality but somehow still mange to die


              I have objective reality in support

              and your position does not


              you need to address this

              ….....................

              PS I told you previously you assume temporal rest is refered to but that is not what is promised

              Paul was not mistaken your temporal assumption was mistaken

              Please do answer the above questions
              and forget your assumptions. What you imagine Paul to be promising did not happen


              Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by TomL View Post

                Tom replies

                You need to do more than just asking

                You need to read replies and answer question

                What part of no is not clear

                No Paul was not mistaken your presumpositions are mistaken

                answer questions for a change
                Tom replies
                Oh look another opportunity to finally answer something you waste



                Tom replies


                do you ever address anything ?

                Previously

                No


                No not yet


                again not yet. it does not say he returned


                You want to address what I asked now




                Tom replies


                So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?


                That is what you seriously believe ?

                This below you never addressed


                So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?





                Are you answering yes to this now ?


                and you think that is a credible position ?

                Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well




                1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

                15
                For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
                16
                For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
                17
                Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.


                but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



                1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV)
                51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


                52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


                53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
                must
                put on immortality.


                54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


                and had put on immortality but somehow still mange to die


                I have objective reality in support

                and your position does not


                you need to address this

                ….....................

                PS I told you previously you assume temporal rest is refered to but that is not what is promised

                Paul was not mistaken your temporal assumption was mistaken

                Please do answer the above questions
                and forget your assumptions. What you imagine Paul to be promising did not happen

                So you agree then that what Paul promised to the first century church, "you", in 2 Thessalonians 1 actually took pkace? Everything described there right happened just as Paul promised.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

                  So you agree then that what Paul promised to the first century church, "you", in 2 Thessalonians 1 actually took pkace? Everything described there right happened just as Paul promised.
                  Tom replies

                  You don't answer questions and now it appears you don't even read

                  What part of no not yet do find to be an affirmation

                  Tom replies



                  So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?



                  That is what you seriously believe ?

                  This below you never addressed




                  So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?





                  Are you answering yes to this now ?


                  and you think that is a credible position ?


                  Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well




                  1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

                  15
                  For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
                  16
                  For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
                  17
                  Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.


                  but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



                  1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV)
                  51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


                  52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


                  53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
                  must
                  put on immortality.


                  54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


                  and had put on immortality but somehow still mange to die



                  I have objective reality in support

                  and your position does not




                  you need to address this

                  ….....................

                  PS I told you previously you assume temporal rest is refered to but that is not what is promised

                  Paul was not mistaken your temporal assumption was mistaken

                  Please do answer the above questions


                  and forget your assumptions. What you imagine Paul to be promising did not happen

                  I guess you did not understand that either huh

                  Seriously?
                  Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by TomL View Post

                    Tom replies

                    You don't answer questions and now it appears you don't even read

                    What part of no not yet do find to be an affirmation

                    Tom replies



                    So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?



                    That is what you seriously believe ?

                    This below you never addressed




                    So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?





                    Are you answering yes to this now ?


                    and you think that is a credible position ?


                    Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well




                    1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

                    15
                    For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
                    16
                    For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
                    17
                    Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.


                    but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



                    1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV)
                    51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


                    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


                    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
                    must
                    put on immortality.


                    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


                    and had put on immortality but somehow still mange to die



                    I have objective reality in support

                    and your position does not




                    you need to address this

                    ….....................

                    PS I told you previously you assume temporal rest is refered to but that is not what is promised

                    Paul was not mistaken your temporal assumption was mistaken

                    Please do answer the above questions


                    and forget your assumptions. What you imagine Paul to be promising did not happen

                    I guess you did not understand that either huh

                    Seriously?
                    Temporal rest is what is referred to. They are not still waiting for Christ to return to give them rest or relief are they? LOL

                    Didn't you bring up context? Isnt the context persecution? If not what? Rest or relief from what Tom contextually?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

                      Temporal rest is what is referred to. They are not still waiting for Christ to return to give them rest or relief are they? LOL

                      Didn't you bring up context? Isnt the context persecution? If not what? Rest or relief from what Tom contextually?
                      Tom replies

                      Again you did not read

                      Again you answer nothing


                      Originally posted by TomL View Post


                      Tom replies

                      You don't answer questions and now it appears you don't even read

                      What part of no not yet do find to be an affirmation
                      Tom replies



                      So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?



                      That is what you seriously believe ?

                      This below you never addressed




                      So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?




                      Are you answering yes to this now ?

                      and you think that is a credible position ?


                      Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well



                      1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

                      15
                      For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
                      16
                      For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
                      17
                      Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.

                      but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



                      1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV)
                      51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

                      52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

                      53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
                      must
                      put on immortality.

                      54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

                      and had put on immortality but somehow still mange to die



                      I have objective reality in support

                      and your position does not




                      you need to address this

                      ….....................

                      P
                      S I told you previously you assume temporal rest is refered to but that is not what is promised

                      Paul was not mistaken your temporal assumption was mistaken


                      Please do answer the above questions

                      and forget your assumptions. What you imagine Paul to be promising did not happen

                      I guess you did not understand that either huh

                      Seriously?

                      BTW are you still trying to keep up the sham of being undecided
                      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by TomL View Post

                        Tom replies

                        Again you did not read

                        Again you answer nothing


                        Originally posted by TomL View Post


                        Tom replies

                        You don't answer questions and now it appears you don't even read

                        What part of no not yet do find to be an affirmation
                        Tom replies



                        So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?



                        That is what you seriously believe ?

                        This below you never addressed




                        So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?




                        Are you answering yes to this now ?

                        and you think that is a credible position ?


                        Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well



                        1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

                        15
                        For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
                        16
                        For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
                        17
                        Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.

                        but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



                        1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV)
                        51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

                        52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

                        53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
                        must
                        put on immortality.

                        54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

                        and had put on immortality but somehow still mange to die



                        I have objective reality in support

                        and your position does not




                        you need to address this

                        ….....................

                        P
                        S I told you previously you assume temporal rest is refered to but that is not what is promised

                        Paul was not mistaken your temporal assumption was mistaken


                        Please do answer the above questions

                        and forget your assumptions. What you imagine Paul to be promising did not happen

                        I guess you did not understand that either huh

                        Seriously?

                        BTW are you still trying to keep up the sham of being undecided
                        I told you before I'm not chasing your rabbit trails. The discussion is about 2 Thessalonians 1 which your avoiding like the plague. It's like discussing John 6 with Arminians, they run all over the place and want to discuss everything but John 6.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

                          I told you before I'm not chasing your rabbit trails. The discussion is about 2 Thessalonians 1 which your avoiding like the plague. It's like discussing John 6 with Arminians, they run all over the place and want to discuss everything but John 6.
                          Tom replies

                          Rabbit trails ? You are not answering anything

                          and the first thing you did not answer was about the text of 2Th

                          …......................................


                          Originally posted by TomL View Post


                          Tom replies

                          Again you did not read

                          Again you answer nothing


                          Originally posted by TomL View Post


                          Tom replies

                          You don't answer questions and now it appears you don't even read

                          What part of no not yet do find to be an affirmation
                          Tom replies



                          So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?



                          That is what you seriously believe ?

                          This below you never addressed




                          So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?




                          Are you answering yes to this now ?
                          and you think that is a credible position ?


                          Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well


                          1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

                          15
                          For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
                          16
                          For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
                          17
                          Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.
                          but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



                          1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV)
                          51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
                          52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
                          53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
                          must
                          put on immortality.
                          54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
                          and had put on immortality but somehow still mange to die



                          I have objective reality in support

                          and your position does not




                          you need to address this

                          ….....................

                          P
                          S I told you previously you assume temporal rest is refered to but that is not what is promised

                          Paul was not mistaken your temporal assumption was mistaken


                          Please do answer the above questions

                          and forget your assumptions. What you imagine Paul to be promising did not happen

                          I guess you did not understand that either huh

                          Seriously?

                          BTW are you still trying to keep up the sham of being undecided

                          you did not answer that either

                          but for some reason you bring up John 6 which no one has brought up here and then you complain about rabbit trails ?

                          Sorry I don't buy it you are hiding
                          Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by TomL View Post

                            Tom replies

                            Rabbit trails ? You are not answering anything

                            and the first thing you did not answer was about the text of 2Th

                            …......................................


                            Originally posted by TomL View Post


                            Tom replies

                            Again you did not read

                            Again you answer nothing


                            Originally posted by TomL View Post


                            Tom replies

                            You don't answer questions and now it appears you don't even read

                            What part of no not yet do find to be an affirmation
                            Tom replies



                            So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?



                            That is what you seriously believe ?

                            This below you never addressed




                            So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?




                            Are you answering yes to this now ?
                            and you think that is a credible position ?


                            Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well


                            1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

                            15
                            For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
                            16
                            For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
                            17
                            Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.
                            but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



                            1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV)
                            51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
                            52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
                            53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
                            must
                            put on immortality.
                            54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
                            and had put on immortality but somehow still mange to die



                            I have objective reality in support

                            and your position does not




                            you need to address this

                            ….....................

                            P
                            S I told you previously you assume temporal rest is refered to but that is not what is promised

                            Paul was not mistaken your temporal assumption was mistaken


                            Please do answer the above questions

                            and forget your assumptions. What you imagine Paul to be promising did not happen

                            I guess you did not understand that either huh

                            Seriously?

                            BTW are you still trying to keep up the sham of being undecided

                            you did not answer that either

                            but for some reason you bring up John 6 which no one has brought up here and then you complain about rabbit trails ?

                            Sorry I don't buy it you are hiding
                            All this and nothing dealing with 2 Thessalonians. I believe exactly what it says. Christ came to give them relief or rest with His angels in the 1st century. Also to judge by the way JUST AS IT SAYS. So if you would like to attempt to correct the apostles Paul then deal with 2 Thessalonians specifically. Don't tell me what it can't mean, tell me what it does means. Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

                              All this and nothing dealing with 2 Thessalonians. I believe exactly what it says. Christ came to give them relief or rest with His angels in the 1st century. Also to judge by the way JUST AS IT SAYS. So if you would like to attempt to correct the apostles Paul then deal with 2 Thessalonians specifically. Don't tell me what it can't mean, tell me what it does means. Seems pretty cut and dried to me.
                              Tom replies

                              Like I stated you don't answer questions and you don't read

                              Tom replies

                              Rabbit trails ? You are not answering anything

                              and the first thing you did not answer was about the text of 2Th

                              …......................................


                              Originally posted by
                              TomLView Post


                              Tom replies

                              Again you did not read

                              Again you answer nothing


                              Originally posted by
                              TomLView Post


                              Tom replies

                              You don't answer questions and now it appears you don't even read

                              What part of no not yet do find to be an affirmation
                              Tom replies



                              So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?



                              That is what you seriously believe ?

                              This below you never addressed




                              So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?




                              Are you answering yes to this now ?

                              and you think that is a credible position ?


                              Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well



                              1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

                              15
                              For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
                              16
                              For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
                              17
                              Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.

                              but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



                              1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV)
                              51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

                              52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

                              53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
                              must
                              put on immortality.

                              54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

                              and had put on immortality but somehow still mange to die



                              I have objective reality in support

                              and your position does not



                              you need to address this

                              ….....................

                              P
                              S I told you previously you assume temporal rest is refered to but that is not what is promised

                              Paul was not mistaken your temporal assumption was mistaken

                              Please do answer the above questions

                              and forget your assumptions.
                              What you imagine Paul to be promising did not happen

                              I guess you did not understand that either huh

                              Seriously?

                              BTW are you still trying to keep up the sham of being undecided

                              you did not answer that either

                              but for some reason you bring up John 6 which no one has brought up here and then you complain about rabbit trails ?

                              Sorry I don't buy it you are hiding

                              …............................

                              PS what part of the promise is not of temporal rest but eternal rest do you not understand

                              what part of they were not promised this rest would come in 70 AD is not clear

                              The rest is promised when Christ comes to judge all as the those who do not obey the gospel or know God would face everlasting destruction

                              It did not happen in 70 AD

                              Paul's words are consistent with a man who did not know when that day would come (The day is solely in the purview of God the Father)

                              but knew a rest was promised

                              Sorry but you cannot just close your eyes or bury your head in the sand and ignore the fact what you imagine did not happen

                              Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by TomL View Post

                                Tom replies

                                Like I stated you don't answer questions and you don't read

                                Tom replies

                                Rabbit trails ? You are not answering anything

                                and the first thing you did not answer was about the text of 2Th

                                …......................................


                                Originally posted by
                                TomLView Post


                                Tom replies

                                Again you did not read

                                Again you answer nothing


                                Originally posted by
                                TomLView Post


                                Tom replies

                                You don't answer questions and now it appears you don't even read

                                What part of no not yet do find to be an affirmation
                                Tom replies



                                So all those who lived at that time and either did not obey the gospel or know God were sent to everlasting destruction in 70 A.D. ?



                                That is what you seriously believe ?

                                This below you never addressed




                                So all those people just disappeared from the earth in 70 A.D. and nobody noticed ?




                                Are you answering yes to this now ?

                                and you think that is a credible position ?


                                Do you also imagine all the living were caught up and changed to immortal at that time as well



                                1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LEB)

                                15
                                For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain until the Lord’s coming, will not possibly precede those who have fallen asleep.
                                16
                                For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
                                17
                                Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.

                                but again no one noticed and no one realized they were now changed



                                1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV)
                                51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

                                52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

                                53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
                                must
                                put on immortality.

                                54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

                                and had put on immortality but somehow still mange to die



                                I have objective reality in support

                                and your position does not



                                you need to address this

                                ….....................

                                P
                                S I told you previously you assume temporal rest is refered to but that is not what is promised

                                Paul was not mistaken your temporal assumption was mistaken

                                Please do answer the above questions

                                and forget your assumptions.
                                What you imagine Paul to be promising did not happen

                                I guess you did not understand that either huh

                                Seriously?

                                BTW are you still trying to keep up the sham of being undecided

                                you did not answer that either

                                but for some reason you bring up John 6 which no one has brought up here and then you complain about rabbit trails ?

                                Sorry I don't buy it you are hiding

                                …............................

                                PS what part of the promise is not of temporal rest but eternal rest do you not understand

                                what part of they were not promised this rest would come in 70 AD is not clear

                                The rest is promised when Christ comes to judge all as the those who do not obey the gospel or know God would face everlasting destruction

                                It did not happen in 70 AD

                                Paul's words are consistent with a man who did not know when that day would come (The day is solely in the purview of God the Father)

                                but knew a rest was promised

                                Sorry but you cannot just close your eyes or bury your head in the sand and ignore the fact what you imagine did not happen
                                o
                                Once again. Your not even attempting to deal with 2 Thessalonians 1.

                                It must of happened tom. Paul said it would happen in their lifetime. Just as in Matthew 16. Christ Himself said it would occur before some of them tasted death. Do you know of any of the 12 apostles still walking around??

                                Comment

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