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Rising from the dead

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  • Rising from the dead

    Matthew 27:50-64 (KJV)
    50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
    51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
    52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
    53 And came out of the gravesafter his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
    54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
    55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:
    56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.
    57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
    58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
    59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
    60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.
    61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.
    62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
    63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
    64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.


    Just one question

    What did the Chief Priests and the Pharisees believe rising from the dead entails ?

    Acts 10:40-41 (KJV)
    40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
    41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

  • #2
    TomL;

    52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

    They came to life the day Jesus died. So did Lazurus. None of them were a true resurrection from the dead as they all physically died again.

    63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

    Well blow me down ... I wonder if we can get to the body God made walk out of the tomb in this thread.

    I started out with a curious question of the resurrection of Jesus . As I see the total desperation of these guys to avoid this question I am more convinced that=n ever I have this pretty correct. God raised a body that didn't exist. That means the flesh and bone body was totally gone and that really sharpens the view of John 21:14, JESUS had to manifest to full physical to show the wounds.... yep I'm on the right track.

    64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.


    Just one question

    What did the Chief Priests and the Pharisees believe rising from the dead entails ?
    Some of the tome believed as you do.... they were wrong too.

    Acts 10:40-41 (KJV)
    40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

    MADE HIm VISIBLE..... and now that we KNOW Jesus raised a body that didn't exist the making it invisible really makes sense,, 1 COR 15:44 tells us there is also a spiritual body so that would be WITH Jesus but God made the spiritual body visible. God did not raise the actual flesh body of Jesus which had been put in the tomb.
    41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.[/QUOTE]

    How come the others couldn't see Jesus? BECAUSE God inly made Jesus visible to the witnesses.

    Good thread!

    noble

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by noble View Post
      TomL;

      52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

      They came to life the day Jesus died. So did Lazurus. None of them were a true resurrection from the dead as they all physically died again.

      63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

      Well blow me down ... I wonder if we can get to the body God made walk out of the tomb in this thread.

      I started out with a curious question of the resurrection of Jesus . As I see the total desperation of these guys to avoid this question I am more convinced that=n ever I have this pretty correct. God raised a body that didn't exist. That means the flesh and bone body was totally gone and that really sharpens the view of John 21:14, JESUS had to manifest to full physical to show the wounds.... yep I'm on the right track.

      64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.


      Just one question



      Some of the tome believed as you do.... they were wrong too.

      Acts 10:40-41 (KJV)
      40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

      MADE HIm VISIBLE..... and now that we KNOW Jesus raised a body that didn't exist the making it invisible really makes sense,, 1 COR 15:44 tells us there is also a spiritual body so that would be WITH Jesus but God made the spiritual body visible. God did not raise the actual flesh body of Jesus which had been put in the tomb.
      41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
      How come the others couldn't see Jesus? BECAUSE God inly made Jesus visible to the witnesses.

      Good thread!

      noble
      [/QUOTE]

      Tom replies

      Lets see

      The Pharisees noted Jesus stated he would rise again

      They believed it would be his body that would rise

      You say they are wrong

      Jesus says you are wrong

      John 2:19-21 (KJV)
      19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
      20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
      21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

      Isaiah says you are wrong

      Isaiah 26:19 (KJV)
      19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

      John says you are wrong

      John 5:28-29 (KJV)
      28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
      29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

      you just don't know what resurrection is

      BTW regarding your absurd claim

      How come the others couldn't see Jesus? BECAUSE God inly made Jesus visible to the witnesses.

      The bible nowhere state Jesus was not visible

      and shows he was he physical as well

      but answer this how did God demonstrate the resurrection was true ?

      How did Jesus ?

      BTW resurrection includes raising from the dead

      How did those in Matthew 27:52 rise from the dead

      What came out of the their open grave Noble ?-





      Last edited by TomL; 10-07-18, 09:53 PM.
      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TomL View Post

        How come the others couldn't see Jesus? BECAUSE God inly made Jesus visible to the witnesses.

        Good thread!

        noble
        Tom replies

        Lets see

        The Pharisees noted Jesus stated he would rise again

        They believed it would be his body that would rise

        You say they are wrong

        Jesus says you are wrong

        John 2:19-21 (KJV)
        19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
        20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
        21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

        Isaiah says you are wrong

        Isaiah 26:19 (KJV)
        19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

        John says you are wrong

        John 5:28-29 (KJV)
        28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
        29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

        you just don't know what resurrection is

        BTW regarding your absurd claim

        How come the others couldn't see Jesus? BECAUSE God inly made Jesus visible to the witnesses.

        The bible nowhere state Jesus was not visible

        and shows he was he physical as well

        but answer this how did God demonstrate the resurrection was true ?

        How did Jesus ?

        BTW resurrection includes raising from the dead

        How did those in Matthew 27:52 rise from the dead

        What came out of the their open grave Noble ?-

        [/QUOTE]

        Full Preterist like Noble miss the point when they argue Lazarus and those listed in MT 27:52,53 were not resurrected as they died again

        The fact is they rose from the dead.

        Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV)
        52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
        53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

        And Resurrection includes rising from the dead

        1 Corinthians 15:12-21 (KJV)
        12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
        13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
        14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
        15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
        16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
        17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
        18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
        19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
        20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
        21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

        Jesus had risen from the dead


        Matthew 17:9 (KJV)
        9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

        Matthew 27:64 (KJV)
        64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

        Matthew 28:7 (KJV)
        7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

        That indicates his body had arose and had life restored to it

        Full Preterism simply cannot survive a true definition of resurrection

        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

        Comment


        • #5
          TomL;

          How come the others couldn't see Jesus? BECAUSE God inly made Jesus visible to the witnesses.

          Good thread!

          noble
          [/QUOTE]

          Tom replies

          Lets see

          The Pharisees noted Jesus stated he would rise again
          We're coming, Jesus said He would raise THIS temple in John 2:19. Let;s hope people believed Him!

          They believed it would be his body that would rise
          SOme did , Must have been a lot of them because:

          16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.

          Just absorb the importance of what that says.. Hymie had said the resurrection had already happened... yet John the Baptist was not rolling around Jerusalem. None of the people had shown up and the FAITH OF SOME WAS SHAKEN!!! Yipper, those that thought there was a physical resurrection would be thinking their doctrine was wrong.... it shook their faith. The resurrections didn't didn't take place until that last day and that was the same day of the last trump, in 70 AD.
          You say they are wrong
          Yes and anybody that says Jesus physically returns and physically resurrects anyone is STILL wrong.

          Jesus says you are wrong

          John 2:19-21 (KJV)
          19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
          20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
          21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
          Wow.... YES YES YES.... Jesus said He would raise this temple and this time IT refers back to the THIS TEMPLE. Jesus said He would raise this temple and it is you that says He didn't. You say God raised the flesh and bone wounded body of Jesus.

          Isaiah says you are wrong
          You're still dragging that ole verse.....

          Isaiah 26:19 (KJV)
          19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

          There is an obviou conflict within the same verse... bodies rise, then it says spirits of the dead rise. ... when you come across verses like that you have t dig in and do some extra research from other verses which explain the situation. You refuse to do that and just cling to the words that support your false doctrine.
          John says you are wrong
          No John is a big part of where I got the information from, BUT... I go by what John wrote not what your teachers changed it to.

          John 5:28-29 (KJV)
          28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
          29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

          NO matter how you squint at this verse there just is nothing about bodies anywhere in there. You have to add that from your personal doctrine. The physical aspect comes from your doctrine not the bible. The essence of the person is in te spirit NOT the flesh, the flesh accounts for nothing.
          John 6:63 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
          63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.


          you just don't know what resurrection is
          I have explained to you what resurrection is and I have shown you what you say it is would be incorrect.


          The bible nowhere state Jesus was not visible
          Are you kidding?

          and shows he was he physical as well

          but answer this how did God demonstrate the resurrection was true ?
          Guess what..... Jesus APPEARED in the flesh and blood body from John 2:19 which God made VISIBLE so the witnesses could SEE Him and thus know that there is eternal life after physica life on earth.

          How did Jesus ?
          How did Jesus ....what?

          BTW resurrection includes raising from the dead
          No guff... you have learned that already?

          How did those in Matthew 27:52 rise from the dead
          It doesn't say but probably like Lazurus did... it for dern sure was NOT a resurrection from the dead. In a resurrection from the dead the righteous people are taken to heaven and they never leave. This people in Matt 27 could have been some of the chosen who for whatever reason show up in heaven as we read here:

          9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
          1
          What came out of the their open grave Noble ?- [
          /FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]

          The spirit, the essence of the dead PERSON. That spirit then was...:
          John 5:
          28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


          That was the resurrection of Matthew 25:31 and 32, Daniel 12:1 and 2 and the GWT form Rev 20.

          noble

          Comment


          • #6
            Noble states

            Yes and anybody that says Jesus physically returns and physically resurrects anyone is STILL wrong.


            Tom notes
            Jesus says you are wrong

            John 2:19-21 (KJV)
            19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
            20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
            21 But he spake of the temple of his body.


            Noble states
            Wow.... YES YES YES.... Jesus said He would raise this temple and this time IT refers back to the THIS TEMPLE. Jesus said He would raise this temple and it is you that says He didn't. You say God raised the flesh and bone wounded body of Jesus.

            Tom replies

            Sorry he stated he would raise his temple. It was his temple he died in.

            That would be a physical body Noble

            You cannot escape that


            Isaiah says you are wrong


            Isaiah 26:19 (KJV)
            19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

            Yes and it still refutes you

            Noble states
            There is an obviou conflict within the same verse... bodies rise, then it says spirits of the dead rise. ... when you come across verses like that you have t dig in and do some extra research from other verses which explain the situation. You refuse to do that and just cling to the words that support your false
            doctrine.

            Tom replies

            There are no conflicts in scripture Noble

            And no it does not say spirit rise

            The body rises and the spirit is rejoined with the body

            That is resurrection Noble but you don't know that

            because your eschatology cannot survive that knowledge


            John says you are wrong

            Noble denies
            No John is a big part of where I got the information from, BUT... I go by what John wrote not what your teachers changed it to.

            Tom replies

            No you don't get your concept of resurrection from John


            John 5:28-29 (KJV)
            28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
            29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


            John tells us what is in the grave comes out

            You say it doesn't

            John is right

            You are wrong

            Noble states
            NO matter how you squint at this verse there just is nothing about bodies anywhere in there. You have to add that from your personal doctrine. The physical aspect comes from your doctrine not the bible. The essence of the person is in te spirit NOT the flesh, the flesh accounts for nothing.

            Tom replies

            They are in the grave Noble

            We bury bodies

            hello

            What was in the grave here


            Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV)
            52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
            53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

            Noble states
            John 6:63 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
            63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.


            Tom replies

            sorry but you just ripped that verse from its context which is not about resurrection but eating Christs flesh and drinking his blood

            Christ is denying any value in eating his physical flesh

            Again Noble you have to read context or you offer only a pretext


            you just don't know what resurrection is

            Noble states
            I have explained to you what resurrection is and I have shown you what you say it is would be incorrect.


            Tom replies

            And you did so wrongly requiring 3 or 4 different meanings

            the rest you formatted so poorly you don't even know what is being stated

            picking up what was stated in context

            but answer this how did God demonstrate the resurrection was true ?

            How did Jesus ?

            BTW resurrection includes raising from the dead

            How did those in Matthew 27:52 rise from the dead

            What came out of their open grave Noble ?

            Noble of course simply ignore what was stated in the passage

            Full Preterist like Noble miss the point when they argue Lazarus and those listed in MT 27:52,53 were not resurrected as they died again
            The fact is they rose from the dead.


            Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV)
            52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
            53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
            And Resurrection includes rising from the dead


            1 Corinthians 15:12-21 (KJV)
            12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
            13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
            14 And if Christ be not risen, then
            is
            our preaching vain, and your faith
            is
            also vain.
            15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
            16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
            17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith
            is
            vain; ye are yet in your sins.
            18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
            19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
            20 But now is Christ risen from the dead,
            and
            become the firstfruits of them that slept.
            21 For since by man
            came
            death, by man
            came
            also the resurrection of the dead.
            Jesus had risen from the dead



            Matthew 17:9 (KJV)
            9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.


            Matthew 27:64 (KJV)
            64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.


            Matthew 28:7 (KJV)
            7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
            That indicates his body had arose and had life restored to it
            Full Preterism simply cannot survive a true definition of resurrection

            now try to deal in context with what was started
            Last edited by TomL; 10-08-18, 01:41 PM.
            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

            Comment


            • #7

              TomL;

              This post is mostly a direct copy of the last one which has been responded to before. I see a couple of things....
              Sorry he stated he would raise his temple. It was his temple he died in.

              That would be a physical body Noble
              There is no doubt His physical body was placed in the tomb...BUT where did it go? As you pointed out Jesus said He would raise THIS temple.... you say He didn't you say He raised the wounded one but then Jesus would be a liar. SInce Jesus did not raise the wounded body , where was it?


              You cannot escape that[
              Those of us who try to understand the bible instead of a study guide do not ever try to escape biblical meaning.


              There are no conflicts in scripture Noble

              And no it does not say spirit rise
              Isa 26:19

              Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

              The Hebrew word for dead here is rapha' which means ghosts of the dead, shades, spirits That which is in the grave is the spirit of the dead.

              Hey you're flip flopping Tom.....!!!

              The body rises and the spirit is rejoined with the body
              Pssst ... there is no body in the grave because it has returned to dust. The spirit can not go to heaven until the body is destroyed.

              That is resurrection Noble but you don't know that
              Nothing in the bible says that a spirit is rejoined with a body...no where , no thing.... no chance. That would be a direct conflict to 2 COR 5:1. Denominational doctrine can not say such things and be biblically correct... that doesn't stop lots of them from saying it anyway.

              because your eschatology cannot survive that knowledge[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
              Of course if that was biblically true I wouldn't be saying the spirit is covered with NEW body, 2 COR 5:1..

              No you don't get your concept of resurrection from John
              Yes I do and thanks for quoting the verses from John that verify what I am saying.
              John 5:28-29 (KJV)
              28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
              29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


              John tells us what is in the grave comes out
              Okay but there is no flesh because it has returned to dust rotted to nothing.SO what is left in the ground to be taken to heaven ....? The spirit of the PERSON is in the ground waiting to come out to be judged and taken to heaven or raised to be condemned. That happened at the last day Tom...... even Martha knew that.


              Noble states
              [LEFT][COLOR=#252C2F][FONT=Helvetica]NO matter how you squint at this verse there just is nothing about bodies anywhere in there. You have to add that from your personal doctrine. The physical aspect comes from your doctrine not the bible. The essence of the person is in te spirit NOT the flesh, the flesh accounts for nothing.

              Tom replies

              They are in the grave Noble

              We bury bodies
              Yes and:
              1 cor 15
              37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.

              You bury that physical body in the grave and a spiritual body comes out... 1 cor 15:44.
              What was in the grave here
              a
              I would say people who had been dead less than 4 days... remember Lazurus was starting to decay after 4 days. Then these people went into the city and appeared to someone.... then what? We don't know.

              John 6:63 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
              63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.


              37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.

              sorry but you just ripped that verse from its context which is not about resurrection but eating Christs flesh and drinking his blood
              NO it is about the flesh meaning nothing after physical death, It serves no purpose , we don't need flesh after physical death. Oh and :
              53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

              That is not physical flesh or physical blood...........

              Christ is denying any value in eating his physical flesh
              Huh... no He isn't so guess what that argument is worth.

              Again Noble you have to read context or you offer only a pretext
              That would mean something if the right guy said it.

              I have a question ...does anybody have and verse which would leave a clue as to where the wounded body if Jesus could have been as Jesus and Mary were outside th tomb that forst morning.

              noble

              Comment


              • #8
                Tom replies

                The topic of the op is rising from the dead

                In verses 52,53 saints rise from the dead

                What rises in the passage

                What came out of the grave

                Matthew 27:50-63 (KJV)
                50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
                51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
                52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
                53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
                54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
                55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:
                56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.
                57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
                58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
                59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
                60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.
                61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.
                62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

                Now in verses 62,63

                Jesus had stated he would arise from the dead

                Matthew 27:63 (KJV)
                63
                Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

                What gave the Pharisees such an idea ?

                John 2:19-21 (KJV)
                19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
                20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
                21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

                What did Jesus say he would raise ?

                What did the Pharisees think would be evidence of Jesus rising from the dead ?

                64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

                Did Jesus and the Pharisees agree on what constitutes a rising from the dead ?



                Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TomL View Post
                  Tom replies

                  The topic of the op is rising from the dead

                  In verses 52,53 saints rise from the dead

                  What rises in the passage

                  What came out of the grave

                  Matthew 27:50-63 (KJV)
                  50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
                  51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
                  52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
                  53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
                  54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
                  55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:
                  56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.
                  57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
                  58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
                  59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
                  60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.
                  61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.
                  62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

                  Now in verses 62,63

                  Jesus had stated he would arise from the dead

                  Matthew 27:63 (KJV)
                  63
                  Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

                  What gave the Pharisees such an idea ?

                  John 2:19-21 (KJV)
                  19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
                  20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
                  21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

                  What did Jesus say he would raise ?

                  What did the Pharisees think would be evidence of Jesus rising from the dead ?

                  64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

                  Did Jesus and the Pharisees agree on what constitutes a rising from the dead ?


                  Interesting thread. I would comment but ... I already did. I haven't seen any response in those comments yet,.

                  noble

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by noble View Post

                    Interesting thread. I would comment but ... I already did. I haven't seen any response in those comments yet,.

                    noble
                    Tom replies

                    You can't answer the questions and cherry pick around them


                    Originally posted by TomL View Post

                    Tom replies

                    The topic of the op is rising from the dead

                    In verses 52,53 saints rise from the dead

                    What rises in the passage

                    What came out of the grave

                    Matthew 27:50-63 (KJV)
                    50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
                    51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
                    52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
                    53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
                    54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
                    55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:
                    56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.
                    57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
                    58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
                    59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
                    60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.
                    61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.
                    62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

                    Now in verses 62,63

                    Jesus had stated he would arise from the dead

                    Matthew 27:63 (KJV)
                    63
                    Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

                    What gave the Pharisees such an idea ?

                    John 2:19-21 (KJV)
                    19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
                    20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
                    21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

                    What did Jesus say he would raise ?

                    What did the Pharisees think would be evidence of Jesus rising from the dead ?

                    64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

                    Did Jesus and the Pharisees agree on what constitutes a rising from the dead ?

                    We all know you have no answers
                    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      TomL;

                      Yes I have already commented o this thread and there has been no response to what I wrote, Oh, well the res of the threads I comment on all lead to the same thing anyway............

                      noble

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by noble View Post
                        TomL;

                        Yes I have already commented o this thread and there has been no response to what I wrote, Oh, well the res of the threads I comment on all lead to the same thing anyway............

                        noble
                        Tom replies

                        You were not asked to comment you were asked to address what was stated and answer questions

                        you did not


                        The topic of the op is rising from the dead

                        In verses 52,53 saints rise from the dead

                        What rises in the passage

                        What came out of the grave

                        Matthew 27:50-63 (KJV)
                        50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
                        51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
                        52 And the
                        graves were opened
                        ; and
                        many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
                        53
                        And came out of the graves
                        after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
                        54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
                        55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:
                        56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.
                        57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
                        58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
                        59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
                        60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.
                        61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.
                        62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

                        Now in verses 62,63

                        Jesus had stated he would arise from the dead

                        Matthew 27:63 (KJV)
                        63
                        Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

                        What gave the Pharisees such an idea ?

                        John 2:19-21 (KJV)
                        19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
                        20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
                        21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

                        What did Jesus say he would raise ?

                        What did the Pharisees think would be evidence of Jesus rising from the dead ?

                        64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

                        Did Jesus and the Pharisees agree on what constitutes a rising from the dead ?

                        Those are the questions you have not answered and run from
                        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TomL View Post

                          Tom replies

                          You were not asked to comment you were asked to address what was stated and answer questions

                          you did not


                          The topic of the op is rising from the dead

                          In verses 52,53 saints rise from the dead

                          What rises in the passage

                          What came out of the grave

                          Matthew 27:50-63 (KJV)
                          50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
                          51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
                          52 And the
                          graves were opened
                          ; and
                          many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
                          53
                          And came out of the graves
                          after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
                          54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
                          55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:
                          56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.
                          57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
                          58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
                          59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
                          60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.
                          61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.
                          62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

                          Now in verses 62,63

                          Jesus had stated he would arise from the dead

                          Matthew 27:63 (KJV)
                          63
                          Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

                          What gave the Pharisees such an idea ?

                          John 2:19-21 (KJV)
                          19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
                          20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
                          21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

                          What did Jesus say he would raise ?

                          What did the Pharisees think would be evidence of Jesus rising from the dead ?

                          64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

                          Did Jesus and the Pharisees agree on what constitutes a rising from the dead ?

                          Those are the questions you have not answered and run from
                          https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/re...32#post5634032

                          Then I responded again in #5 and #7

                          noble

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by noble View Post

                            https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/re...32#post5634032

                            Then I responded again in #5 and #7

                            noble
                            Tom replies

                            It was insufficient as it did not address all that is being currently asked

                            See below

                            Tom replies

                            You were not asked to comment you were asked to address what was stated and answer questions

                            you did not



                            The topic of the op is rising from the dead


                            In verses 52,53 saints rise from the dead


                            What rises in the passage


                            What came out of the grave

                            Matthew 27:50-63 (KJV)

                            50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

                            51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

                            52 And the

                            graves were opened

                            ; and

                            many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

                            53

                            And came out of the graves

                            after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

                            54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

                            55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:

                            56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.

                            57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:

                            58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.

                            59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,

                            60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

                            61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.

                            62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,


                            Now in verses 62,63


                            Jesus had stated he would arise from the dead

                            Matthew 27:63 (KJV)

                            63

                            Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.


                            What gave the Pharisees such an idea ?

                            John 2:19-21 (KJV)

                            19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

                            20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

                            21 But he spake of the temple of his body.


                            What did Jesus say he would raise ?


                            What did the Pharisees think would be evidence of Jesus rising from the dead ?


                            64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.


                            Did Jesus and the Pharisees agree on what constitutes a rising from the dead ?

                            Those are the questions you have not answered and run from
                            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              TomL;

                              Originally posted by noble View Post
                              TomL;

                              Yes I have already commented o this thread and there has been no response to what I wrote, Oh, well the res of the threads I comment on all lead to the same thing anyway............

                              noble
                              Tom replies

                              You were not asked to comment you were asked to address what was stated and answer questions
                              ?????????????????????

                              you did not
                              Oh well that's no good , I'll just answer your questions again. Then at the end I will ask you a question and if you had the decency of an alligator you would actually answer it.

                              The topic of the op is rising from the dead
                              In Matthew 27... I knew that yes.

                              In verses 52,53 saints rise from the dead
                              They did...... see #2 where I wrote:
                              They came to life the day Jesus died. So did Lazurus. None of them were a true resurrection from the dead as they all physically died again.

                              What rises in the passage

                              What came out of the grave
                              The saints from who knows where. It doesn't say. They woke up at the time Jesus died. They went into the town and appeared to people ... you know I remember typing this before...... then we don't know what happened to them. At one point I GUESSED they may have been part of the elect of Jesus but they would not have been because they would never have resisted the beast.
                              Now in verses 62,63

                              Jesus had stated he would arise from the dead
                              And He meant it too!!!

                              What gave the Pharisees such an idea ?
                              Maybe they read it in the Jerusalem Gassette.
                              John 2:19-21 (KJV)
                              19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
                              20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
                              21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

                              What did Jesus say he would raise ?
                              Great!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus said He would raise THIS TEMPLE... not a wounded body but THIS TEMPLE that was flesh and blood NO wounds..

                              What did the Pharisees think would be evidence of Jesus rising from the dead ?
                              They felt the body could leave the tomb... the body could leave the tomb!!!!!

                              64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

                              Did Jesus and the Pharisees agree on what constitutes a rising from the dead ?
                              Jesus knew , the Pharisees didn't.

                              Those are the questions you have not answered and run from
                              Well till the next post when you ask them again.... there you are.
                              So now my question to you....

                              Did Jesus lie when He said , "I will raise THIS temple"? If He didn't what happened?

                              noble

                              Comment

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