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Revelation Knowledge

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  • #61
    Originally posted by spokenword View Post
    Give us some examples of this revelation knowledge that God has shown you.
    In the beginning was the word. And the word was with God and the word was God.
    Be light. Share The Gospel. Grow the Kingdom...

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Simon View Post

      WoF critics claim that Kenyon coined the term "revelation knowledge" and that Kenyon is the true father of the WoF, so how could WoF redefine what they created? As for the gnostic assertion, the secret knowledge of Gnosticism was knowledge held by special gnostic teachers that provided a means to escape the evil physical universe created by an evil lesser god known as the demiurge and return to the original heaven of pure spirit. Nothing remotely resembling that is seen in the WoF. This is just more dishonest rhetoric that comes from WoF opponents in an effort to brand WoF heresy. Revelation knowledge as Kenyon defined it was simply the revelation from God that we see in the Bible. It wasn't acquired through the five physical sense but came by revelation as the 40 or so authors were moved by the Holy Spirit. So it sounds like you and Kenyon are in agreement.
      Hmmmm.... I didn't mention Kenyon, you did. Whatever he coined has been taken as their own by Word Faith. Gnosis in its basic form is spiritual knowledge known by a few. And that is exactly what you support in your Revelation Knowledge definition. I notice you call us dishonest. Not a very loving way to approach the discussion. Moving on, Kenyon said that Jesus died twice, physically and spiritually. This was his opinion before he found the passage in Isaiah. Then he takes the Hebrew word for death and notices that it is plural... Hmmmm Revelation knowledge... But, Essex had a problem. He really didn't know Hebrew. When the word death is made plural, it is describing an intense death, not more than one...

      Kenyon and I cold not be in agreement due to the way he used his Revelation Knowledge... It's the old talking out of both sides of his mouth trick...
      Be light. Share The Gospel. Grow the Kingdom...

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by spokenword View Post
        Have you personally ever been shown some Revelation knowledge? Maybe you can share your experiences.Would love to hear them.
        I believe this is a great example of where WoF-type revelation knowledge and your sixth sense will get you :


        A man was looking into the Bible for some revelation knowledge. Not knowing where to look, he simply opened the Bible randomly and point his finger at a passage. Wherever his finger lands, he will take as revelation from God.
        Here's the first: "Judas went out and hanged himself". Not knowing what to make out of that, he tried again.
        This time it is: "Go and do likewise." Completely baffled, he tried a third time.
        "Whatever you are to do, do so quickly."

        source: http://www.jokebuddha.com/Bible#ixzz50Vue8pLm
        Phynerk
        " Getting a straight answer from a Word Of Faith'er is like nailing Jello to a wall." MRCPU

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Tallen View Post

          Another misuse of scripture. God certainly respects some people over others..., it is written about throughout scripture. He respected Noah above others, He respected David over Goliath, Isaac over Ismael, Isreal over other nations, He respected Jesus over Satan, it's all through sripture. Even to the end, when He respects His people over those who were not elect.

          Go back and meditate the meaning of scripture, in context and without your sixth sense deceiving you.
          This is what happens when one does not understand it and sidetracks by playing on words. You will never understand the supernatural in the natural. I call it a sixth sense because its not in the natural. But go on and play your games with words Thanks for your two cents of input.

          Without Love we are nothing more than noise makers.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Phynerk View Post

            I believe this is a great example of where WoF-type revelation knowledge and your sixth sense will get you :


            A man was looking into the Bible for some revelation knowledge. Not knowing where to look, he simply opened the Bible randomly and point his finger at a passage. Wherever his finger lands, he will take as revelation from God.
            Here's the first: "Judas went out and hanged himself". Not knowing what to make out of that, he tried again.
            This time it is: "Go and do likewise." Completely baffled, he tried a third time.
            "Whatever you are to do, do so quickly."

            source: http://www.jokebuddha.com/Bible#ixzz50Vue8pLm
            You have no idea what revelation knowledge is,but thanks for your input.

            Without Love we are nothing more than noise makers.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Yodas_Prodigy View Post

              In the beginning was the word. And the word was with God and the word was God.
              You also have no idea what revelation knowledge is.Pray for it.

              Without Love we are nothing more than noise makers.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Tallen View Post

                Did Kenyon teach that revelation knowledge comes from a sixth physical sense?
                For your info the sixth sense (my term) is not physical but comes from the supernatural.Something you have no idea about.
                Without Love we are nothing more than noise makers.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by spokenword View Post
                  For your info the sixth sense (my term) is not physical but comes from the supernatural.Something you have no idea about.
                  You repeated this three times with nothing more than your unbiblical terms and fanciful imaginations. You are in serious trouble.
                  ---> wof, insert your denial here. <---

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Tallen View Post

                    You repeated this three times with nothing more than your unbiblical terms and fanciful imaginations. You are in serious trouble.
                    This is why I continue to pray for you. With God all things are possible.

                    Without Love we are nothing more than noise makers.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by spokenword View Post
                      This is why I continue to pray for you. With God all things are possible.
                      Pray for yourself.
                      ---> wof, insert your denial here. <---

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Tallen View Post

                        Pray for yourself.
                        You are the one in need!!!!

                        Without Love we are nothing more than noise makers.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Yodas_Prodigy View Post

                          Hmmmm.... I didn't mention Kenyon, you did. Whatever he coined has been taken as their own by Word Faith. Gnosis in its basic form is spiritual knowledge known by a few. And that is exactly what you support in your Revelation Knowledge definition. I notice you call us dishonest. Not a very loving way to approach the discussion. Moving on, Kenyon said that Jesus died twice, physically and spiritually. This was his opinion before he found the passage in Isaiah. Then he takes the Hebrew word for death and notices that it is plural... Hmmmm Revelation knowledge... But, Essex had a problem. He really didn't know Hebrew. When the word death is made plural, it is describing an intense death, not more than one...

                          Kenyon and I cold not be in agreement due to the way he used his Revelation Knowledge... It's the old talking out of both sides of his mouth trick...
                          Don't take my comments personal. I deal with lots of WoF critics, and many of them are dishonest so the comments weren't directed at you unless the shoe fits. I have documented plenty of cases of misrepresentation of WoF teaching and teachers by people like Hanegraaff, Justin Peters, and D. R. McConnell to name a few. Your comment sounded like you were saying that the WoF hijacked the term "revelation knowledge", but if Kenyon was the true father of the WoF movement as critics like Dan McConnell have asserted, then "revelation knowledge" is a WoF term so it would be hard to hijack it. As for our definition of revelation knowledge, as Kenyon used the term it is simply talking about the Bible which is hardly "secret knowledge" so you're wrong about our definition. Benny Hinn uses it differently but he isn't WoF. He renounced WoF in 1993.

                          I don't agree with Essek (not Essex) on JDS, but he's hardly alone in his view. Calvin said essentially the same thing. Even Billy Graham said that Jesus experienced spiritual death. It's a non-essential issue however. The only thing the creeds say about the matter is that Jesus descended into hell. But this really isn't the issue I was addressing before. I was talking about the term "revelation knowledge". It doesn't mean secret knowledge or anything gnostic. If you'll read Kenyon's book "The Two Kinds of Knowledge" it's clear that he was just talking about the Bible. Sense knowledge is limited to what the physical senses tell us, but revelation knowledge comes by revelation from God about spiritual and eternal truth. He even contrasted the view on the origin of life between evolutionists and creationists as an example. Hardly gnostic.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Simon View Post
                            Calvin said essentially the same thing.
                            No, Calvin doesn't say the same thing. His comments are taken out of context and misused by wof. It is the same thing that you are complaining about with people commenting on wof. I would be happy to go over this with you if you want, but what Calvin was doing is laying out a view of Christ going to hell, and showing the error of that teaching. His point was that the teaching of Christ going to hell was a Papal dogma not supported by scripture.
                            ---> wof, insert your denial here. <---

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Tallen View Post

                              No, Calvin doesn't say the same thing. His comments are taken out of context and misused by wof. It is the same thing that you are complaining about with people commenting on wof. I would be happy to go over this with you if you want, but what Calvin was doing is laying out a view of Christ going to hell, and showing the error of that teaching. His point was that the teaching of Christ going to hell was a Papal dogma not supported by scripture.
                              That's an interesting take on Calvin's Institutes. Here's a link to what he said. http://www.reformed.org/books/instit...html#eight.htm Everything I've read says that this is his work on Protestant systematic theology rather than a critique of papal dogma. Article #10 appears to say that the Bible offers further support for what is written in the creed. I'm always open to the input of others, but I really don't see how I'm taking Calvin out of context here.

                              Nothing had been done if Christ had only endured corporeal death. In order to interpose between us and God's anger, and satisfy his righteous judgement, it was necessary that he should feel the weight of divine vengeance. Whence also it was necessary that he should engage, as it were, at close quarters with the powers of hell and the horrors of eternal death.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Simon View Post

                                That's an interesting take on Calvin's Institutes. Here's a link to what he said. http://www.reformed.org/books/instit...html#eight.htm Everything I've read says that this is his work on Protestant systematic theology rather than a critique of papal dogma. Article #10 appears to say that the Bible offers further support for what is written in the creed. I'm always open to the input of others, but I really don't see how I'm taking Calvin out of context here.
                                That quote must be put into the larger context of Calvin's intent. He is addressing Papal doctrine in his Institutes. What is actually happening with Calvins words is that various groups have taken him out of context and use his words to support something that he did not mean. Furthermore, he writes about that weight of Devine justice being while Messiah was on the cross and felt in the physical and mental state that He endured. Calvin does not teach that Christ descended into hell to fight the powers of darkness, the Devil, or any other demon. He rightly addresses The Creed and explains himself very clearly. Calvin's view of The Creed was that the part about the descent into Hades was added later, which it was, and describes that descent while Messiah was experiencing physical death on the cross.

                                Read the Institutes from paragraph 6 through 10 to catch the meaning of what Calvin was intending. He explicitly says that men are placing after the cross what clearly happened while Messiah was on the cross. He describes the hell that He endured upon the cross.

                                Thanks for the link but I have been through this many times, only to have wofist tell me that they are going to continue to use Calvin the way they were taught to misuse his words. The dishonesty that you mentioned is a two way street and is found in wof as well.
                                Last edited by Tallen; 12-07-17, 09:35 AM.
                                ---> wof, insert your denial here. <---

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