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What is a faith healer?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mikey1967 View Post

    We derive it in the same way as we get the Trinity. Isa 61:1 and Acts 10:38 present the Holy Spirit in the form of anointed with. You have Mark 6:13 showing the disciples healing and anointing with oil. Luke 8 shows that Jesus healed by the power of the Holy Spirit. In Matthew 10 He gave that same authority to heal to the disciples. Hebrews 1:9 Christ was anointed with the "oil of joy". 1 Samuel 10, Samuel anointed Saul with oil to receive the Holy Spirit. David received the Holy Spirit in 1 Samuel 16 but we see in Psalms 89 that God anointed David with His "holy oil."

    It is throughout the scriptures where the Holy Spirit is symbolized with oil, so James 5 takes on that same relevance in harmony with the rest of the scripture.
    Personally I don't see it in this context..., you've shown your view is only derived by reading outside ideas into the text. I think that the oil is instrumental in the process..., it is part of the instruction of the Lord for the healing and restoration of the believer. There is nothing else in the verse that we would spiritualize with outside philosophical ideas being read into the context. It is the obedience to the Lord's instruction and the prayer of faith that is effectual.

    Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
    James 5:13*-‬16 KJV

    BTW, I believe the bolded words, and certainly the elders should be men of righteousness, capable of prayer that is effectual. The question would be, why doesn't most of the prayer from the elders be effectual?
    ---> Insert your denial here. <---

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Tallen View Post

      Personally I don't see it in this context..., you've shown your view is only derived by reading outside ideas into the text. I think that the oil is instrumental in the process..., it is part of the instruction of the Lord for the healing and restoration of the believer. There is nothing else in the verse that we would spiritualize with outside philosophical ideas being read into the context. It is the obedience to the Lord's instruction and the prayer of faith that is effectual.

      Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
      James 5:13*-‬16 KJV

      BTW, I believe the bolded words, and certainly the elders should be men of righteousness, capable of prayer that is effectual. The question would be, why doesn't most of the prayer from the elders be effectual?
      I appreciate your view but I see the oil as symbolic, especially given the healings in scripture that took place without oil.

      The reason: Most do not believe. We create a framework in our minds that is constructed of bias and unbelief and then say that God only will work within the confines of what we have constructed and most certainly what our natural mind can comprehend. We then make the claim that we believe and we have faith but we predicate that on something that stays in the future when faith is now. We do not see anything because we choose to not believe but cover that with a layer of self-deception to convince ourselves that we are actually in faith. Simply, we do not believe.
      1 Cor 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Mikey1967 View Post

        I appreciate your view but I see the oil as symbolic, especially given the healings in scripture that took place without oil.

        The reason: Most do not believe. We create a framework in our minds that is constructed of bias and unbelief and then say that God only will work within the confines of what we have constructed and most certainly what our natural mind can comprehend. We then make the claim that we believe and we have faith but we predicate that on something that stays in the future when faith is now. We do not see anything because we choose to not believe but cover that with a layer of self-deception to convince ourselves that we are actually in faith. Simply, we do not believe.
        I appreciate your symbolic view, but think that having faith in what YHWH has said, literally and obediently, has a much greater result than spiritualizing the instruction. Much of Christian leadership has spiritualized God's instructions in order to not do them. I'm thinking that faith is predicated on being obedient to YHWH'S teachings, instructions and Commandments. Biblical faith is mostly believing obedience to God's word.
        ---> Insert your denial here. <---

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Tallen View Post

          I appreciate your symbolic view, but think that having faith in what YHWH has said, literally and obediently, has a much greater result than spiritualizing the instruction. Much of Christian leadership has spiritualized God's instructions in order to not do them. I'm thinking that faith is predicated on being obedient to YHWH'S teachings, instructions and Commandments. Biblical faith is mostly believing obedience to God's word.
          I do not disagree with obedience and faith. My stance is not that the oil does anything other than a physical expression of Who is doing the healing.
          1 Cor 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Mikey1967 View Post

            I do not disagree with obedience and faith. My stance is not that the oil does anything other than a physical expression of Who is doing the healing.
            I think there is a much more literal function of the oil. Kind of like Moses told to speak to the rock, but he smote the rock with His staff..., thereby breaking the instruction of YHWH and costing a great deal for doing such. Not following God's instructions is a costly endeavor..., and why many are never healed.
            ---> Insert your denial here. <---

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Tallen View Post

              I think there is a much more literal function of the oil. Kind of like Moses told to speak to the rock, but he smote the rock with His staff..., thereby breaking the instruction of YHWH and costing a great deal for doing such. Not following God's instructions is a costly endeavor..., and why many are never healed.
              But also remember, the rock was a typology of Christ.
              1 Cor 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Mikey1967 View Post

                But also remember, the rock was a typology of Christ.
                Yep, no doubt.
                ---> Insert your denial here. <---

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by afaithfulone4u View Post

                  The real world?? You mean the one that The Almighty Creator is about to destroy because of men turning to man, self and their own abilities instead of Him for their healings and needs? Remember, we are told that the spirit world that we can not see, is more real than what we do see.
                  Then why does God say in the Bible that the meaning of sorcery, sorceries, is drugs, medication, potions, poisoners and pharm(acy)? Why would God, who created all men, need to look to man for some potion to help Him out??
                  Show me one place that Jesus turned a sick or diseased person to seek a healing from a man? or a pill? or what hospital did he build for the sick? Please show me!!!

                  The herbs that God gave us are fine to use, but not chemicals that man makes and mixes with God's perfect herbs, vegetable, fruits and charges you for them.

                  What physician did Job turn to for his healing? NONE, but God only is the answer. When you use anything else, you will always share the glory with the thing that YOU or a MAN, Diet, Pill, Exercise or anything else that You did, with your faith in God.. God don't need your help EVER or will He share His glory with nothing and no one!
                  If one can not have enough faith in GOD, not the man that God may bring a healing through who prays for you, then you have to choices. You can remain in your unbelief and seek men that you can see to give you some pacifying pills for your symptoms... or you can begin to exercise your faith with something small and a headache, toothache, and then build from there, taking NOTHING for them only asking God in pray and repentance is need be... Then when your healing comes, you won't have mixed thoughts of WHO took the pain away, for it had to be God for there is nothing else!
                  Can you tell me HONESTLY that since you became a believer you have NEVER needed any medicine to get you over a cold, flu or any other malady ?
                  Phynerk
                  " Getting a straight answer from a Word Of Faith'er is like nailing Jello to a wall." MRCPU

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I will rest me case against what God thinks about the physicians that unbelievers look to for their healing. He also allows the sorcerers to charge unbelievers, even all of their savings/retirement when if they would have come to God first, He would not have charged them anything but their FAITH, and if they want to give an offering to God, for the good thing He did for them, But He leaves that to their own heart condition to do that! But at the least, they need to bow to Him in Thanksgiving for their healing or victory over their situations

                    2 Chron 16:12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.

                    13 And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.

                    KJV

                    Luke 8:43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

                    44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.

                    45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

                    46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.

                    47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him and how she was healed immediately.

                    48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
                    KJV
                    .
                    The purpose of my posts are not to cause bicker or division, but to show truth from the scripture for edifying of the soul. It does not matter what we think, it is what God's Word says that matters.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      People of GOD, look up the meaning of SORCERIES in the Strong's KJV Concordance... don't use the watered down Niv or other translations that have morphed into smooth definitions of todays understanding... God goes by HIS meaning, not deceiving mans!

                      Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

                      24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
                      KJV


                      Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
                      KJV

                      Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

                      10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.

                      11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
                      KJV

                      The purpose of my posts are not to cause bicker or division, but to show truth from the scripture for edifying of the soul. It does not matter what we think, it is what God's Word says that matters.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by afaithfulone4u View Post
                        People of GOD, look up the meaning of SORCERIES in the Strong's KJV Concordance... don't use the watered down Niv or other translations that have morphed into smooth definitions of todays understanding... God goes by HIS meaning, not deceiving mans!

                        Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

                        24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
                        KJV


                        Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
                        KJV

                        Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

                        10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.

                        11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
                        KJV
                        So let me ask AGAIN: Can you tell me HONESTLY that since you became a believer you have NEVER needed any medicine to get you over a cold, flu or any other malady ?
                        Phynerk
                        " Getting a straight answer from a Word Of Faith'er is like nailing Jello to a wall." MRCPU

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Phynerk View Post

                          So let me ask AGAIN: Can you tell me HONESTLY that since you became a believer you have NEVER needed any medicine to get you over a cold, flu or any other malady ?
                          I'm thinking your tag line applies.
                          ---> Insert your denial here. <---

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Tallen View Post

                            I'm thinking your tag line applies.
                            This is another example of the WoF centurian 'faith'.
                            Phynerk
                            " Getting a straight answer from a Word Of Faith'er is like nailing Jello to a wall." MRCPU

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by afaithfulone4u View Post

                              While this is true, it does not take away from the fact that God heals us by our Faith in Him to do so and by keeping the commandments of Christ(10 in the Stone) to live by, that were condensed to 2, that if kept properly, fulfill all 10.
                              Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, but you can only receive healing by faith in his sacrifice, otherwise every human being would instantly be healed without having any faith. Yet, we know it is impossible to please God without Faith, and that works(believing without seeing first) without the faith for them to come to pass is dead faith.
                              God never changes and Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever for the Word never dies. The Word has been since the beginning and will always apply to God's people so they can get healed and stay healed for it is the Word that cleanses our flesh from desiring to sin. Sin kills us, not God! He merely has to judge it and we reap what it brought forth.

                              1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

                              2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

                              3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

                              4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

                              5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

                              6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

                              7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the BEGINNING. The old commandment is THE WORD which ye have heard from the BEGINNING.
                              KJV
                              So in your belief, sinners cannot be healed? Who knew?
                              It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flatů

                              Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Mikey1967 View Post

                                It depends on what you are labeling "faith healers"
                                Mikey, did you look at the video? These people are predators who use the Bible for their own profit. Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyers, Kenneth Copeland, Jesse DuPlantis, Peter Popoff (yes, the miracle water is still free), Kathryn Kuhlman, Todd Bentley. Oral Roberts.

                                Respectfully Mikey, these people don't care one whit about faith healing. They care about their bank accounts. They're absent when their so-called faith healing doesn't work. The response is "You didn't have enough faith". Blame the victim.

                                The other parts of the video show that even the apostles weren't healed.

                                I have no agenda other than exposing these charlatans. This video does it quite nicely.
                                It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flatů

                                Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

                                Comment

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