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As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
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  • #31
    Originally posted by AlFin View Post

    "hyped up miracles without verification"? Well, at my church people healed of cancer were verified by doctors who specialize in cancer. When the people went to the doctor, x-rays showed large cancer present. After being prayed for, x-rays taken just before the planned surgery showed no cancer. Now, you may claim that cancer specialists don't know how to "read" an x-ray, but that would be a stretch.
    Same at my church, many folks healed and prayers answered every week. We have nothing to do with wofism and it is most often renounced has aberrant theology. Go figure, you've just describe normal Christianity.

    A person who was deaf in one ear being healed instantly was verification enough.

    A person with advanced heart disease (medically diagnosed) who received a heart as strong as a 14 year old (so stated by the heart specialist) after a prophetic vision by my pastor.


    And my pastor will say that he cannot heal anybody, it is faith in God, who is the healer.

    This is just a very small sample of healings God has done at my church.
    You asked how to determine a false wofism..., I told you. What you are claiming as wof happens every week all over America in Christian churches that have nothing to do with wof. In fact, it happens more often in mainstream Christian churches than you realize.

    Instead of focusing on healing, what about the bad theology, the lying about miracles, people who claimed to be healed and were not (confession belief), raising dead people without any verification (there was this guy over in Africa), and so on and so forth.
    ---> Insert your denial here. <---

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Tallen View Post

      Same at my church, many folks healed and prayers answered every week. We have nothing to do with wofism and it is most often renounced has aberrant theology. Go figure, you've just describe normal Christianity.
      Absolutely correct! This is supposed to be "normal Christianity"; however, it's lacking in too many Christian churches.
      Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

      Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by AlFin View Post

        Absolutely correct! This is supposed to be "normal Christianity"; however, it's lacking in too many Christian churches.
        And..., your comment does not justify what I listed as error in wof. Things that many of us have witnessed personally. After all, we were asked how we determined a false wof. No wof has addressed that, but obfuscated by trying to focus on healing. Still havent addressed my points.
        ---> Insert your denial here. <---

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by AlFin View Post

          Absolutely correct! This is supposed to be "normal Christianity"; however, it's lacking in too many Christian churches.
          I think you assume too much here. There are lots of Churches who claim to be Christian... But are not... Mostly old mainline churches... Some Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, and Episcopalian denominations come to mind...
          Be light. Share The Gospel. Grow the Kingdom...

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Yodas_Prodigy View Post

            If you were a thinking person, you wouldn't believe the BAJ/JDS doctrine and would also realize that it is inconsistent with Trinitarian doctrine.
            Inconsistent with the belief of the Trinity? I don't think you could EVER demonstrate that although you'd claim that you could. Just your claims or others mean nothing to me though. If I don't agree with you based on the word than such is what I'll hold to. And you consider you can go very far with a person when you're insulting by claiming they're not a thinking person? Really Yoda whatever happened to wise as serpents and harmless as doves? Does that goes by the wayside for people who know they're right?

            If you were a thinking person,you would realize that Satan....
            Sadly there you go again. Really concerned about being gentle to all men, apt to teach patient in meekness in order to have influence to the end of bringing people out of teaching you feel is error? Do you really care about this or is it really just about winning arguments for vain glory? Sadly for most on these message boards that's about what it is.

            Al, you gave yourself away early in your post. You were looking for things to happen... You weren't looking for sound theology or people who walk a holy/blameless/righteous life...
            He said NO SUCH THING. Sorry but you're second guessing and jumping to unfair conclusions! There's nothing in his writing where he suggests he didn't want good sound Bible teaching and to live a holy life. No offense but I truly feel you owe him an apology.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Yodas_Prodigy View Post
              After all of these years, I have yet to see a person come in here and convert from any solid denomination to Word Faith... Could it happen? I suppose... Over the years, there have been numerous WoF/WoF-sympathizers come here and leave Word Faith. One got is doctorate with a defense of WoF, then left and is now a covenant believer. Another went to Rhema and came here with questions. Now he is free. A third is now in Grad school working on his Master of Divinity...

              In short, any thinking person who is willing to honestly evaluate WOF will eventually leave it...
              I'll conclude by saying I don't agree 100% with everything, every wof type ministry has said. I will say this though my life changed greatly to the positive of walking in the realm of answers to prayer and walking in spiritual victory as I never had before. Now if those individuals you speak of left basic word of faith teachings I feel they've given up much which would be very beneficial to their Christian lives. Does Yoda's claims above really mean anything? Not really. What did Jesus say about the sower sows the word? It reveals only a small group actually do become productive in a full measure and many...many can start off and get offended at things. Is truth based on how many stay with it or leave it at how Yoda suggest above? Not so. We know such is not the way to decide what's truth. Thank you for your time! And Peace.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Beloved Daughter View Post

                My mom attended charismatic services. She's a very smart lady. She saw the fake healings, the very subtle sleight of hand. She saw enough!
                Yeah....I did to. I went weekly to WV Grant's friday night services in Cincinnati, OH...before he was exposed. When I saw what I saw, I confronted him in his office...privately. Then I left him...and CBS took over.

                Here's a newsflash: WV Grant did not change the gospel, he just lied publicly. That's not really a game changer, unless you insist that this walk is by sight alone...and then you really do need spectacles. No healing in that doctrine at all.
                Pete

                ~(8-[)}<><===> (flames of new anointing, béret, non-prescription glasses to help critics and their ilk feel more secure, mustache, beard...and tie.) I serve a God who walked this earth for thirty years before He did a single miracle.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Rockson View Post

                  I'll conclude by saying I don't agree 100% with everything,...
                  Which is something that every wof has said in the forum, Alex. I'll take wof for 200.

                  ---> Insert your denial here. <---

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Tallen View Post

                    Which is something that every wof has said in the forum, Alex. I'll take wof for 200.
                    Because the Reform takes Calvin 100%? Or Dutch Reform will take Andrew Murray one hundred percent? Stay tuned. We're reading another outstanding piece by him. There will be several more threads to enjoy or make you cringe shortly.
                    Pete

                    ~(8-[)}<><===> (flames of new anointing, béret, non-prescription glasses to help critics and their ilk feel more secure, mustache, beard...and tie.) I serve a God who walked this earth for thirty years before He did a single miracle.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by tbeachhead View Post
                      Because the Reform takes Calvin 100%? Or Dutch Reform will take Andrew Murray one hundred percent? Stay tuned. We're reading another outstanding piece by him. There will be several more threads to enjoy or make you cringe shortly.
                      I faith you are convinced to join the Dutch Reform and repent of wofism.

                      ---> Insert your denial here. <---

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Tallen View Post

                        I faith you are convinced to join the Dutch Reform and repent of wofism.
                        As long as Andrew Murray and his fundamental doctrine of free will and a God Who has limited His Sovereignty by this, and by the promises He has made is included, I'll consider it.

                        I'm so glad you've left the fold of Dutch Reform to absorb in your belief the doctrine of free will, and a God Who has delegated His sovereign authority to man, and limited Himself by man's innaction.
                        Pete

                        ~(8-[)}<><===> (flames of new anointing, béret, non-prescription glasses to help critics and their ilk feel more secure, mustache, beard...and tie.) I serve a God who walked this earth for thirty years before He did a single miracle.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by tbeachhead View Post

                          As long as Andrew Murray and his fundamental doctrine of free will and a God Who has limited His Sovereignty by this, and by the promises He has made is included, I'll consider it.

                          I'm so glad you've left the fold of Dutch Reform to absorb in your belief the doctrine of free will, and a God Who has delegated His sovereign authority to man, and limited Himself by man's innaction.
                          Ha ha ha!

                          tyfyt
                          ---> Insert your denial here. <---

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Rockson View Post

                            I'll conclude by saying I don't agree 100% with everything, every wof type ministry has said. I will say this though my life changed greatly to the positive of walking in the realm of answers to prayer and walking in spiritual victory as I never had before. Now if those individuals you speak of left basic word of faith teachings I feel they've given up much which would be very beneficial to their Christian lives. Does Yoda's claims above really mean anything? Not really. What did Jesus say about the sower sows the word? It reveals only a small group actually do become productive in a full measure and many...many can start off and get offended at things. Is truth based on how many stay with it or leave it at how Yoda suggest above? Not so. We know such is not the way to decide what's truth. Thank you for your time! And Peace.
                            Interesting...

                            You tell us you don't agree with WOF 100%
                            [That is the defense mechanism used to separate yourself from the failures of WoF]

                            You tell us you have a changed life with answered prayers and spiritual victory
                            [That is not a WOF-only experience. I have a testimony that will knock the socks off of most WOF]

                            You tell us basic WOF teachings are beneficial
                            [Little gods, JDS/BAJ, Confession, Health, and Wealth long with re-defining terms lead people away from the benefits of God]

                            You say my post means nothing
                            [Yet, you took the time to respond]

                            You assume that people who leave are offended
                            [None of the three were offended. You seemed to ignore the level of education each has... ]

                            You assume that I say counting noses proves truth and then disagree with that assumption
                            [Counting noses was not the point of my post. There were a couple of points made. First, WOF has never converted anyone in these forums to WOF from another denomination. Second, of the three mentioned, one got is Doctorate Defending WOF and left, the second went to Rhema hung out with the Hagins and others and left, the third was a defender of WOF and is now getting his Mdiv at Liberty University]...

                            Be light. Share The Gospel. Grow the Kingdom...

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Yodas_Prodigy View Post

                              If you were a thinking person, you wouldn't believe the BAJ/JDS doctrine and would also realize that it is inconsistent with Trinitarian doctrine. If you were a thinking person, you would realize that Satan masquerades as an Angel of Light and will manifest in "signs and wonders" to convince the weak or faithless people...

                              Al, you gave yourself away early in your post. You were looking for things to happen... You weren't looking for sound theology or people who walk a holy/blameless/righteous life...
                              If you were a thinking person, you wouldn't be a preterist/preterist sympathizer.


                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Yodas_Prodigy View Post

                                Interesting...

                                You tell us you don't agree with WOF 100%
                                [That is the defense mechanism used to separate yourself from the failures of WoF]
                                Because there is nothing in your building, propounded by your pastor with which you disagree?

                                You would have to be pastor, then...or a devotee...as Hank Hanegraaff so loves to call those he presumes must be duped.

                                You tell us you have a changed life with answered prayers and spiritual victory
                                [That is not a WOF-only experience. I have a testimony that will knock the socks off of most WOF]
                                Of course it's not. No one has ever suggested as much.

                                WoF explains better than any other paradigm why, when and how God answers prayers, and never suggests that God in his whimsical behavior is above following the principles he laid out in his word, which changes in meaning according to his whim, as his whim is divinely revealed in our cancers and diseases that plague the righteous and the lost in equal proportion.

                                You tell us basic WOF teachings are beneficial
                                [Little gods, JDS/BAJ, Confession, Health, and Wealth long with re-defining terms lead people away from the benefits of God]
                                Yep...each of them, explained as we've done so here, and not as your straw man presents them, but in light of what is written so clearly in His Word.

                                You say my post means nothing
                                [Yet, you took the time to respond]
                                Isn't that the nature of this forum...and you took the time to write in this tone, which is both inviting and balanced.

                                You assume that people who leave are offended
                                [None of the three were offended. You seemed to ignore the level of education each has... ]
                                People who leave are bored with the repetition, or frustrated by the lack of civility...to which I say CARM still ranks as one of the most civil forums in which I've ever participated. The only one who posted here who was ever offended is JFeee, whom the critics decided to gang up on because of her sex. A powerful and effective, minister in her own right, she knew it was time to shake off the dust from her feet. I felt badly for those who posted what they did. Otherwise, the "offensive" posts here are relatively tame.

                                You assume that I say counting noses proves truth and then disagree with that assumption
                                [Counting noses was not the point of my post. There were a couple of points made. First, WOF has never converted anyone in these forums to WOF from another denomination. Second, of the three mentioned, one got is Doctorate Defending WOF and left, the second went to Rhema hung out with the Hagins and others and left, the third was a defender of WOF and is now getting his Mdiv at Liberty University]...
                                WoF doesn't seek to convert, but to give light to the Promise of God in a way that makes faith possible. And our purpose here is to provide a biblical response to your legitimate claims...You're not the snarling anti-Pentecostals, Joe. You speak from your own testimony. The devotees of Hagin don't hold a candle to those among you who actually spent time at Rhema, as I spent time at CBN...but I was far more fortunate than you, because what I saw of God at CBN and in Virginia Beach went further to prepare me for the rest of my walk than any other training: street ministry in Paris, jail time in Morocco for "possession", Arab outreach in the Galilee...and thirty years in an American public school among dysfunctional churches who had to get desperate for the light for the light to begin to shine as it is now.
                                Pete

                                ~(8-[)}<><===> (flames of new anointing, béret, non-prescription glasses to help critics and their ilk feel more secure, mustache, beard...and tie.) I serve a God who walked this earth for thirty years before He did a single miracle.

                                Comment

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