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wof and speaking things into existence

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  • #91
    Originally posted by pfceresino View Post

    Where does the Bible write directly that believers can speak out creating words? I know both Copeland and Joyce Meyer preach we are little God's. But give me 3 different passages that back you up. Don't quote WOF teachers, pastors or your own experiences. But scripture. 👍
    Phynerk isn't promoting anything wof. He isn't wof.
    ---> Insert your denial here. <---

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by pfceresino View Post

      Where does the Bible write directly that believers can speak out creating words? I know both Copeland and Joyce Meyer preach we are little God's. But give me 3 different passages that back you up. Don't quote WOF teachers, pastors or your own experiences. But scripture. 👍
      Trust me, I am not a Wof. I was one for 15 years and have heard Kenneth Copeland speak many times on Romans 4:17 where he said we are to be like Abraham ( who he said was being like God ) who calls things that be not as they were. He even admitted at that point where he had not personally created a BB yet said we should all strive to use our words to create....because the Word said so.
      Phynerk
      " Getting a straight answer from a Word Of Faith'er is like nailing Jello to a wall." MRCPU

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Tallen View Post

        I agree. You still haven't spoken something into existence from nothing. God healed.
        The power comes from the Spokenword.. The Word is alive,active and sharper than a two edged sword. We speak it and God does it according to His will.
        Without Love we are nothing more than noise makers.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Phynerk View Post

          Trust me, I am not a Wof. I was one for 15 years and have heard Kenneth Copeland speak many times on Romans 4:17 where he said we are to be like Abraham ( who he said was being like God ) who calls things that be not as they were. He even admitted at that point where he had not personally created a BB yet said we should all strive to use our words to create....because the Word said so.
          Well Phynerk let me ask you this. If he had said he had not yet spoken to the Sun & Moon to be stayed in the heavens like Joshua did in Joshua 10:13 would that make you feel somewhat better seeing you know a man did that once albeit with God's Spirit anointing and power substantiating that reality?

          And what's your problem in believing Abraham was being like God? Didn't God call those things which be not. Didn't Abraham have to do the same when he took God's declaration about having a son and believing it'd take place? Let's put it his way....God cuts down a tree and calls it dead. Oh the chopped down tree still has green leaves but is it dead? Why of course. It's now cut off from the life flow.

          So when God says something and he insist that you at least come into agreement with it than how will you talk, and how will you act and what will you say about it? So yes...in the natural realm Sarah didn't have a fetus in her womb but Abraham came into agreement with God and called that thing which did not exist as though it did. He chose not to stagger with unbelief and how did he demonstrate it....by thanking God and declaring it done....such is what it means by saying "giving glory to God". Abraham declared like God but God's power did it. Do you think God would have allowed it to come into natural manifestation if Abraham staggered around in unbelief? I'd say no.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by spokenword View Post
            The power comes from the Spokenword..
            Wrong, the power comes from YHWH.

            The Word is alive,active and sharper than a two edged sword.
            You've ripped that verse out of context, like you do most of the time. The sword helps us to discern our own thoughts and intentions, laying our inward man open in the sight of YHWH. Has nothing to do with physical healing.

            We speak it and God does it according to His will.
            Goes does what He wants according to His will, regardless of what you do. We are a means, one of many, that YHWH uses to accomplish His goals.

            God heals.
            ---> Insert your denial here. <---

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Rockson View Post

              Well Phynerk let me ask you this. If he had said he had not yet spoken to the Sun & Moon to be stayed in the heavens like Joshua did in Joshua 10:13 would that make you feel somewhat better seeing you know a man did that once albeit with God's Spirit anointing and power substantiating that reality?

              And what's your problem in believing Abraham was being like God? Didn't God call those things which be not. Didn't Abraham have to do the same when he took God's declaration about having a son and believing it'd take place? Let's put it his way....God cuts down a tree and calls it dead. Oh the chopped down tree still has green leaves but is it dead? Why of course. It's now cut off from the life flow.

              So when God says something and he insist that you at least come into agreement with it than how will you talk, and how will you act and what will you say about it? So yes...in the natural realm Sarah didn't have a fetus in her womb but Abraham came into agreement with God and called that thing which did not exist as though it did. He chose not to stagger with unbelief and how did he demonstrate it....by thanking God and declaring it done....such is what it means by saying "giving glory to God". Abraham declared like God but God's power did it. Do you think God would have allowed it to come into natural manifestation if Abraham staggered around in unbelief? I'd say no.
              Ok then Rock, setup a video camera and record you speaking a herring into existence. Thanks, we look forward to you confirming all those things you just said.
              Phynerk
              " Getting a straight answer from a Word Of Faith'er is like nailing Jello to a wall." MRCPU

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by spokenword View Post
                The power comes from the Spokenword.. The Word is alive,active and sharper than a two edged sword. We speak it and God does it according to His will.
                Yeah when it comes this actually speaking things to be there is one thing Christians do need to understand and renew their minds with. That God IS inside of them. Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, 1 Cor 6:19 and Christ IS in us the hope of glory. Col 1:27 And greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world. 1 John 4:4 If one really is in strong, I mean strong fellowship with the Lord it's not so much that our words have power but rather that God is in us. He can declare things through us which will come to pass in ministering to another...like healing.

                At times one might say with an anointing empowerment upon them, "Be healed!" It's actually God transferring power through one, to another. Jesus even gave us authority to release and transfer God's anointing and one says where?

                And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house. And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. Lk 10:5,6

                That's not meaning just saying a word which impresses the natural mind. That's the transferring of an anointing an empowerment. But it did come through the mans' words or he wouldn't have said, "say Peace be to this house" If this was some Christians they'd hold it must mean to pray for peace to come. Jesus didn't say that. Not saying peace won't come if one prays BUT....let's not forget the other exists.

                Ive had experience with this but i certainly would not share my stories nor should anyone else with people who'd mock them. They may do it in ignorance but it still would be mocking. One might even want to be careful of not sharing them even for that person's sake. If they're mocking whatever and it is indeed real I wouldn't want it to be where God becomes grieved with them.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Rockson View Post

                  Ive had experience with this but i certainly would not share my stories nor should anyone else with people who'd mock them. They may do it in ignorance but it still would be mocking. One might even want to be careful of not sharing them even for that person's sake. If they're mocking whatever and it is indeed real I wouldn't want it to be where God becomes grieved with them. [/COLOR]
                  Yes, that's why some of the critics have a bad habit of doing it on this forum. That's why I refuse to share my testimonies with them.

                  Without Love we are nothing more than noise makers.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Tallen View Post

                    Wrong, the power comes from YHWH.


                    .
                    Are you saying that there is no power in Gods Word?

                    Without Love we are nothing more than noise makers.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by spokenword View Post
                      Are you saying that there is no power in Gods Word?
                      Why do you always create something that has nothing to do with what I clearly and plainly said?

                      I'm saying there is no power IN YOU that makes God do your will. He isn't sitting in eternity, all powerful, all knowing, immutable, sovereign..., waiting for you to order Him around. He uses humans to do His will. Humans don't use Him to do their will.

                      I hope this helps your ignorance.

                      God healed.
                      ---> Insert your denial here. <---

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tallen View Post



                        God healed.
                        And STILL not one person has volunteered a hint that they even understand the OP. It's just another example of the difference between presumption and truth. God's Word is truth while wof's spin on God's Word is theory.
                        Phynerk
                        " Getting a straight answer from a Word Of Faith'er is like nailing Jello to a wall." MRCPU

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Phynerk View Post

                          Ok then Rock, setup a video camera and record you speaking a herring into existence. Thanks, we look forward to you confirming all those things you just said.
                          Well see what you're doing right there? You've set up the condition for you believing something by observing people performing. It doesn't seem you question that Joshua actually did command the Sun & Moon to be stayed, (Joshua 10) albeit with God being the power but man doing the speaking. But it's like you're saying, "Well let's see it again!" But would again turn into and again, and again and again?

                          So your challenge would be for me to speak a herring into existence. Do something to prove this is possible?Well Joshua had good just reason for doing what he did.

                          And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Joshua 10: 13

                          The demonstration of such power through men by God were born out of a necessity for reasons of paramount importance. For Israel to have got this battle over with before sunset was of great importance to God and Joshua.

                          You're wanting me or another to create something for what? To satisfy your curiosity that you should already know being a believer in the scriptures that God with his agent over the earth Man has in times for good reasons done these things. There may for good reason be again. We can read about the two witnesses in Rev 11:19

                          And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. ... Rev 11:19

                          And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes....Rev 11:5

                          They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire. Rev 11:6

                          Actually I find vs 6 interesting of the authority God gave them as it says, "as often as they desire" Didn't actually say as often as God desired but of course God's desire would be a part of it but the emphasis is on the men. Here's what I'm getting from this. If one is so in tuned and so not walking in the flesh but in the spirit.....God will sometimes say OK whatever you say goes. Now I said that with the qualifiers.....being so in-tuned and not practical walking in the flesh at all. It's kind of like OK this is a family business and you're mature and you're in line.....I'll give it to you to make some decision and I'll BACK THEM..

                          Of course if some decisions became not in the spirit then God won't enable any such declarations with his power. My point....don't be quick to make light of the possibility of God allowing men to have his anointing merged into their words. Out of the witnesses mouth's came power, fire or the glory of God to destroy even enemies. Notice it didn't come out of heaven the way you'd think. It came out of their mouths. So yes are words can have power. By themselves they don't but we're not just in ourselves....God is in us too.



                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tallen View Post
                            Goes does what He wants according to His will, regardless of what you do. We are a means, one of many, that YHWH uses to accomplish His goals.
                            Well that's merely your Calvinism coming through not anything where you can pin on exclusively to a wof people. Great massive numbers in Christendom do not believe was you do. Many different types of Christian groups and fellowships believe that if we don't pray certain things may not happen. So your beef isn't just with wof but the body of Christ in general.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Rockson View Post

                              Well that's merely your Calvinism coming through not anything where you can pin on exclusively to a wof people. Great massive numbers in Christendom do not believe was you do. Many different types of Christian groups and fellowships believe that if we don't pray certain things may not happen. So your beef isn't just with wof but the body of Christ in general.
                              What is in error with my statement?

                              Most of Christianity will agree with me..., it isnt a "Calvinistic" statement. Can you give me an example of something you didn't pray and it didn't happen?

                              Once again I'll state the Christian thought. Our prayer is a means that YHWH uses to accomplish His will. There is nothing wrong or strictly Calvinist in it.
                              ---> Insert your denial here. <---

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Rockson View Post

                                Well see what you're doing right there? You've set up the condition for you believing something by observing people performing. It doesn't seem you question that Joshua actually did command the Sun & Moon to be stayed, (Joshua 10) albeit with God being the power but man doing the speaking. But it's like you're saying, "Well let's see it again!" But would again turn into and again, and again and again?

                                So your challenge would be for me to speak a herring into existence. Do something to prove this is possible?Well Joshua had good just reason for doing what he did.

                                And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Joshua 10: 13

                                The demonstration of such power through men by God were born out of a necessity for reasons of paramount importance. For Israel to have got this battle over with before sunset was of great importance to God and Joshua.

                                You're wanting me or another to create something for what? To satisfy your curiosity that you should already know being a believer in the scriptures that God with his agent over the earth Man has in times for good reasons done these things. There may for good reason be again. We can read about the two witnesses in Rev 11:19

                                And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. ... Rev 11:19

                                And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes....Rev 11:5

                                They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire. Rev 11:6

                                Actually I find vs 6 interesting of the authority God gave them as it says, "as often as they desire" Didn't actually say as often as God desired but of course God's desire would be a part of it but the emphasis is on the men. Here's what I'm getting from this. If one is so in tuned and so not walking in the flesh but in the spirit.....God will sometimes say OK whatever you say goes. Now I said that with the qualifiers.....being so in-tuned and not practical walking in the flesh at all. It's kind of like OK this is a family business and you're mature and you're in line.....I'll give it to you to make some decision and I'll BACK THEM..

                                Of course if some decisions became not in the spirit then God won't enable any such declarations with his power. My point....don't be quick to make light of the possibility of God allowing men to have his anointing merged into their words. Out of the witnesses mouth's came power, fire or the glory of God to destroy even enemies. Notice it didn't come out of heaven the way you'd think. It came out of their mouths. So yes are words can have power. By themselves they don't but we're not just in ourselves....God is in us too.


                                So I take it you don't desire to do the thing that you say the Scriptures say you can do if you desire to ?
                                Phynerk
                                " Getting a straight answer from a Word Of Faith'er is like nailing Jello to a wall." MRCPU

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