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  • wof and Proverbs 28:9

    He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
    Proverbs 28:9 KJV

    Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    Exodus 20:8 KJV

    vs

    Constantine's Creed
    I renounce all customs, rites, legalisms, unleavened breads and sacrifices of lambs of the Hebrews, and all the other feasts of the Hebrews, sacrifices, prayers, aspirations, purifications, sanctifications, and propitiations, and fasts and new moons, and Sabbaths, and superstitions, and hymns and chants, and observances and synagogues. absolutely everything Jewish, every Law, rite and custom and if afterwards I shall wish to deny and return to Jewish superstition, or shall be found eating with Jews, or feasting with them, or secretly conversing and condemning the Christian religion instead of openly confuting them and condemning their vain faith, then let the trembling of Cain and the leprosy of Gehazi cleave to me, as well as the legal punishments to which I acknowledge myself liable. And may I be an anathema in the world to come, and may my soul be set down with Satan and the devils.

    and,

    Council of Laodicea
    Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day. Rather, honoring the Lord’s Day. But if any shall be found to be Judaizers, let them be anathema (against) from Christ.
    ---> Insert your denial here. <---

  • #2
    Col 2:8, 16-17
    8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

    16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
    Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

    Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by AlFin View Post
      Col 2:8, 16-17
      8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

      16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
      Actually a poor translation, IMO. Whoever translated it added their hollow and deceptive philosophy and human tradition.

      Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
      Colossians 2:8

      Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come and the body of Christ.
      Colossians 2:16-‬17

      In other words, those things are a shadow of future things and a shadow of the body of Christ.

      Check it out.
      Last edited by Tallen; 06-22-19, 05:12 PM.
      ---> Insert your denial here. <---

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Tallen View Post

        Actually a poor translation, IMO. Whoever translated it added their hollow and deceptive philosophy and human tradition.
        Yeah, right; whatever.
        Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

        Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by AlFin View Post

          Yeah, right; whatever.
          Yeah, right, whatever keeps you from getting to the truth. Check out the Greek.
          ---> Insert your denial here. <---

          Comment


          • #6
            Col 2:13-14
            13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

            You seem to think the Old Covenant Law still governs us, the "canceled written code"?
            Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

            Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by AlFin View Post
              Col 2:13-14
              13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

              You seem to think the Old Covenant Law still governs us, the "canceled written code"?
              He canceled the written code that was against you, your transgressions. But He never abrogated the moral law, His Commandments or His teaching. What He abrogated was a continuous shedding of blood to cover for sin by a Levitical Priesthood. It's one for all, now.

              If ye love me, keep my commandments.
              John 14:15 KJV

              Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
              Revelation 14:12 KJV

              Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
              Revelation 22:14 KJV

              For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
              1 John 5:3 KJV
              ---> Insert your denial here. <---

              Comment


              • #8
                I can agree with this.
                Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

                Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by AlFin View Post
                  I can agree with this.
                  Then you should agree with the OP. The Law is a light it shines on a righteous path teaching us the Way of YHWH.
                  ---> Insert your denial here. <---

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tallen View Post

                    Then you should agree with the OP. The Law is a light it shines on a righteous path teaching us the Way of YHWH.
                    Except the Law does not apply to anyone anymore.

                    Col 2:13-14
                    13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.


                    Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

                    Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by AlFin View Post

                      Except the Law does not apply to anyone anymore.

                      Col 2:13-14
                      13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

                      I'm thinking you can't comprehend the Apostle's teaching due to a bad presupposition..., it doesn't say that the law doesn't apply to you..., it says that the law that testified against you, that condemned you, that you trespassed against, that was applied to you, it was against you. It is these transgressions that were taken away, not the law. The Law still applies, but your transgressions have been taken away and nailed to the cross. That's the reason I posted the scriptures that I did..., to show you that the law still applies.

                      If the law doesn't apply then it is ok to have sex with animals, marry your sister, steal from your neighbor, dishonor your parents, etc. The Law still applies, it's your transgressions nailed to the cross, the law that was against you, that was taken away.



                      ---> Insert your denial here. <---

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AlFin View Post

                        Except the Law does not apply to anyone anymore.

                        Col 2:13-14
                        13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
                        “Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least [by those] in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19).


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tallen View Post
                          He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
                          Proverbs 28:9 KJV

                          Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
                          Exodus 20:8 KJV

                          vs

                          Constantine's Creed
                          I renounce all customs, rites, legalisms, unleavened breads and sacrifices of lambs of the Hebrews, and all the other feasts of the Hebrews, sacrifices, prayers, aspirations, purifications, sanctifications, and propitiations, and fasts and new moons, and Sabbaths, and superstitions, and hymns and chants, and observances and synagogues. absolutely everything Jewish, every Law, rite and custom and if afterwards I shall wish to deny and return to Jewish superstition, or shall be found eating with Jews, or feasting with them, or secretly conversing and condemning the Christian religion instead of openly confuting them and condemning their vain faith, then let the trembling of Cain and the leprosy of Gehazi cleave to me, as well as the legal punishments to which I acknowledge myself liable. And may I be an anathema in the world to come, and may my soul be set down with Satan and the devils.

                          and,

                          Council of Laodicea
                          Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day. Rather, honoring the Lord’s Day. But if any shall be found to be Judaizers, let them be anathema (against) from Christ.
                          I suppose my principle objection would be that neither of these comparisons, Constantine or Laodicea represent ecumenical Christian orthodoxy and as such it is not a reasonable comparison. Additionally, the pitting of old testament law against new covenant understandings of grace and the spirit of the law seems to fly in the face of Pauline understanding imo.

                          That said I don't see the WOF connection here but I've been away a long time. I don't know that I'll be back soon; the same arguments are regurgitated relentlessly with little settled to any satisfaction.
                          Blessings in Christ
                          Trav

                          Bona Conscientia Paradisus
                          FACTS of Christianity

                          Freed to believe by the grace of God ... Atonement for all ... Conditional election ... Total depravity ... Security in Christ

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AlFin View Post
                            Col 2:13-14
                            13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

                            You seem to think the Old Covenant Law still governs us, the "canceled written code"?
                            I would include the following as a text to support your contention. It was indeed the letter of the law, the 'cancelled written code" that is superseded by a new covenant founded on faith in the person and work of Christ.

                            “Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one. [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye [be] Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Ga 3:20-29 AV)

                            The law in text almost always refers to the written law, the Torah in Paul's epistles and I don't believe it is reasonable to subjugate Pauline theology to an Old Testament adherence to 'keeping the law'.It is specifically what Paul had to combat throughout his ministry even correcting the Apostles themselves. Christian faith is about grace, not law. For that matter, so was Abrahamic Israel as demonstrated by so many instances of David throwing himself on the mercies of God rather than the law and people of Israel and Judah.

                            That's about it for my contribution. I'll burn myself out quickly otherwise.
                            Blessings in Christ
                            Trav

                            Bona Conscientia Paradisus
                            FACTS of Christianity

                            Freed to believe by the grace of God ... Atonement for all ... Conditional election ... Total depravity ... Security in Christ

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rachel Rachel View Post

                              “Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least [by those] in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19).
                              When did Jesus say this; was it before his crucifixion or after?
                              Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

                              Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

                              Comment

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