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wof and Phillippians 2:5-8

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tallen View Post

    Typical obfuscation. You didn't answer the question, you avoided it.

    SIG
    STOP with the insults!

    Post to the ISSUE and not to the poster's character,etc.


    Bob said, "I'd suggest that Jesus - AS A MAN - had to accept his REAL IDENTITY by FAITH in God's word to Him - same as WE have to accept our PERFECTION before God as the result of Jesus' Sin Offering for us."

    Your question to Bob...."Was there a time where He didn't know who He really was?"

    It's a great question, as deliberately obfuscatory as it is, because it highlights your own misunderstanding of the nature of faith. If I have to accept my REAL IDENTITY by FAITH is there any time where I don't know what I've accepted by faith?

    Clearly, if I do not know...I do not believe...and therefore I have not accepted my REAL IDENTITY. Faith isn't a figment of my imagination. Faith is the substance that proves the WORD of GOD is life and health to all my flesh. Faith never says, "I'll try it and see if it works." Faith says, "I AM" and leaves it at that. Faith, then, can even say crazy things like, "Before Abraham was I AM..." because faith has been accepted as evidence of the unseen. There is nothing at all strange about this principle...except that you don't seem to grasp it....so I said:

    "There was never a time where He did not have to rely on faith...simple as that. Faith is the evidence of that which was unseen. Jesus never lost faith" (and therefore never doubted who He really was)"...and His faith was the strength of His authority" **and therefore He could say and be.). Because Jesus had faith, He IS, WAS and EVER MORE SHALL BE.
    Pete

    ~(8-[)}<><===> (flames of new anointing, béret, non-prescription glasses to help critics and their ilk feel more secure, mustache, beard...and tie.) I serve a God who walked this earth for thirty years before He did a single miracle.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

      Complex issue - there's a period when He didn't even know where his nose was. There's "Knowing" according to Intellectual assent, since Mary probably told him the story of his birth.

      And then there's KNOWING IN YOUR HEART, Nothing doubting (FAITH) because GOD tells you "you are my SON in whom I am well pleased" and sending the Holy Spirit to dwell on Him.

      Next question??
      That's what I was getting at..., He grew as any human, He learned, grew in strength. I doubt very much as a human baby He had any faith and no self awareness. He grew into these things, as would any of His brethren.

      Just clarifying.
      ---> Insert your denial here. <---

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by tbeachhead View Post

        STOP with the insults!

        Post to the ISSUE and not to the poster's character,etc.


        Bob said, "I'd suggest that Jesus - AS A MAN - had to accept his REAL IDENTITY by FAITH in God's word to Him - same as WE have to accept our PERFECTION before God as the result of Jesus' Sin Offering for us."

        Your question to Bob...."Was there a time where He didn't know who He really was?"

        It's a great question, as deliberately obfuscatory as it is, because it highlights your own misunderstanding of the nature of faith. If I have to accept my REAL IDENTITY by FAITH is there any time where I don't know what I've accepted by faith?

        Clearly, if I do not know...I do not believe...and therefore I have not accepted my REAL IDENTITY. Faith isn't a figment of my imagination. Faith is the substance that proves the WORD of GOD is life and health to all my flesh. Faith never says, "I'll try it and see if it works." Faith says, "I AM" and leaves it at that. Faith, then, can even say crazy things like, "Before Abraham was I AM..." because faith has been accepted as evidence of the unseen. There is nothing at all strange about this principle...except that you don't seem to grasp it....so I said:

        "There was never a time where He did not have to rely on faith...simple as that. Faith is the evidence of that which was unseen. Jesus never lost faith" (and therefore never doubted who He really was)"...and His faith was the strength of His authority" **and therefore He could say and be.). Because Jesus had faith, He IS, WAS and EVER MORE SHALL BE.
        I see the faith of Christ, being obedient unto death (have this mind in you) aligns with Hebrews 10 and the faith of the believer.
        1For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

        5Consequently, when Christa came into the world, he said,

        “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
        but a body have you prepared for me;
        6in burnt offerings and sin offerings
        you have taken no pleasure.
        7Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
        as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”

        8When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

        11And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when Christb had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

        15And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

        16“This is the covenant that I will make with them
        after those days, declares the Lord:
        I will put my laws on their hearts,
        and write them on their minds,”

        17then he adds,

        “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

        18Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

        (this next part in particular is for us in light of who Christ is and what He has done)

        19Therefore, brothers,c since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

        26For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

        (how the word of God depicts it isn't what I typically hear from this forum or the WoF in general, I think God takes this matter of Christ being properly attributed His uniqueness very seriously as does He take the sinfulness of His people or those misusing the Word of God in the name of God)


        (this in particular is written to an immediate set of believers experiencing an immediate set of circumstances, not that we should read ourselves into every passage, yet this still remains instructive to us, and defines true Biblical faith, not toxic or supposed "real Biblical faith". If our definitions of faith do not align with the Word of God, we are wrong and should humble ourselves as Christ did, and obey having the mind of Christ in us on these matters)

        32But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings, 33sometimes being publicly exposed to reproach and affliction, and sometimes being partners with those so treated. 34For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one. 35Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. 37For,

        “Yet a little while,
        and the coming one will come and will not delay;
        38but my righteous one shall live by faith,
        and if he shrinks back,
        my soul has no pleasure in him.”

        39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.
        Footnotes:
        a 5 Greek he
        b 12 Greek this one
        c 19 Or brothers and sisters

        ESV Text Edition® (2016).
        Last edited by Mod8; 10-08-19, 04:57 PM. Reason: Too many URLs & quote box edited

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        • #19
          Originally posted by turtlegs View Post
          I see the faith of Christ, being obedient unto death (have this mind in you) aligns with Hebrews 10 and the faith of the believer.
          I agree with your post, turtlegs..., the mind of Christ was one of a humble servant come to do the greatest good for His people. His service was to be obedient even to and through physical death and into heaven as our advocate and priest because of His great love for us.

          It seems to me, that wof stops at the beginning of the Apostle's statement by teaching that Christ thought of himself equal to God..., and then use the verse in the little gods doctrine prevalent in wof. They miss the point of the Apostle's teaching and focus upon thinking of themselves equal to His divinity.
          ---> Insert your denial here. <---

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Tallen View Post
            It seems to me, that wof stops at the beginning of the Apostle's statement by teaching that Christ thought of himself equal to God..., and then use the verse in the little gods doctrine prevalent in wof. They miss the point of the Apostle's teaching and focus upon thinking of themselves equal to His divinity.
            Not even close....WoF doesn't stop, and goes on to see that the Groom needs a Bride equal to Him in all things, and yet a bride...not the groom. To ignore our relationship is to denigrate the wedding.
            Pete

            ~(8-[)}<><===> (flames of new anointing, béret, non-prescription glasses to help critics and their ilk feel more secure, mustache, beard...and tie.) I serve a God who walked this earth for thirty years before He did a single miracle.

            Comment


            • #21
              Interesting article on the subject.

              https://proveallthingswebblog.wordpr...qual-with-god/
              ---> Insert your denial here. <---

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