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  • wof and 1 Timothy 2:5-6

    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
    1 Timothy 2:5-6 KJV
    ---> Insert your denial here. <---

  • #2
    Originally posted by Tallen View Post
    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
    1 Timothy 2:5-6 KJV
    GOOD Verse!!! Goes nicely with Isa 53:10.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

      GOOD Verse!!! Goes nicely with Isa 53:10.
      I agree.
      ---> Insert your denial here. <---

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Tallen View Post

        I agree.
        I don't know that the "visible church" as a whole UNDERSTANDS, or is really AWARE of the relationship between the Old Testament "Sin Offering" (which temporarily COVERED SIN, but didn't remove it), and Jesus' perfect "Sin Offering" which eradicates SIN completely, when one appropriates it in FAITH (which itself is God's gift).

        I've observed over the years, that even Visible Churches that teach Salvation by FAITH, often tend to "slip in" a dose of "Salvation by WORKS" as well. The Assemblies of God (before the '80s) called it "Holiness" (actually "clotheline holiness").

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

          I don't know that the "visible church" as a whole UNDERSTANDS, or is really AWARE of the relationship between the Old Testament "Sin Offering" (which temporarily COVERED SIN, but didn't remove it), and Jesus' perfect "Sin Offering" which eradicates SIN completely, when one appropriates it in FAITH (which itself is God's gift).

          I've observed over the years, that even Visible Churches that teach Salvation by FAITH, often tend to "slip in" a dose of "Salvation by WORKS" as well. The Assemblies of God (before the '80s) called it "Holiness" (actually "clotheline holiness").
          Well anyone who believes salvation comes by Faith alone does not understand the scriptures at all because the scriptures teach the plan of salvation is not by faith alone.

          The ONLY time the scriptures talk about Faith Alone is when they tell us No One is saved by faith alone.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Hemi View Post

            Well anyone who believes salvation comes by Faith alone does not understand the scriptures at all because the scriptures teach the plan of salvation is not by faith alone.

            The ONLY time the scriptures talk about Faith Alone is when they tell us No One is saved by faith alone.
            For Sure, ONE of us doesn't understand the Scriptures. You already know which side I fall on. My Bible has more than one verse in it, how about yours???

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Hemi View Post

              Well anyone who believes salvation comes by Faith alone does not understand the scriptures at all because the scriptures teach the plan of salvation is not by faith alone.

              The ONLY time the scriptures talk about Faith Alone is when they tell us No One is saved by faith alone.
              Well..., if you mean that we are saved by grace through faith..., then I agree. Not saved by works, but saved to be obedient and do good works. It's called sanctification. The work begins after salvation as we cooperate with the Holy Spirit.

              There is no work that we can do to save ourselves.
              ---> Insert your denial here. <---

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                For Sure, ONE of us doesn't understand the Scriptures.
                And that would be you.

                Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post
                You already know which side I fall on. My Bible has more than one verse in it, how about yours???
                There aren't any "sides" Bob. The scriptures contain all the oracles of God and tell us how to be saved. And the scriptures are clear, salvation is NOT by Faith Alone.

                Only the scripturally ignorant would claim otherwise.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tallen View Post

                  Well..., if you mean that we are saved by grace through faith..., then I agree. Not saved by works, but saved to be obedient and do good works. It's called sanctification. The work begins after salvation as we cooperate with the Holy Spirit.

                  There is no work that we can do to save ourselves.
                  It all works together and not one part is Alone. We do the works God gave us as He said in Ephesians. And if we do not repent and become obedient we will be lost. We're obedient first, that's our duty our command. Grace alone don't save or else the Bible is a lie and no one goes to hell. Faith alone don't save or else Jesus lied when He said "Not all who say to me Lord Lord will be saved, but those who do the will of my Father in heaven".

                  Faith is not alone, Grace is not alone, Obedience is not alone, Leave either one out and a person is Lost.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hemi View Post

                    It all works together and not one part is Alone. We do the works God gave us as He said in Ephesians. And if we do not repent and become obedient we will be lost. We're obedient first, that's our duty our command. Grace alone don't save or else the Bible is a lie and no one goes to hell. Faith alone don't save or else Jesus lied when He said "Not all who say to me Lord Lord will be saved, but those who do the will of my Father in heaven".

                    Faith is not alone, Grace is not alone, Obedience is not alone, Leave either one out and a person is Lost.
                    Since I didn't say, "alone", then I take it you are talking to someone else.
                    ---> Insert your denial here. <---

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tallen View Post

                      Since I didn't say, "alone", then I take it you are talking to someone else.
                      Probably to me, but "Salvation by works" people always use the same arguments. Your point about "Sanctification" (Coming into Christian Maturity) involving "Works" is accurate, and essentially what the Book of James is about.

                      That's where the "Judgement seat of Christ" comes in for Born Again Christians.

                      Apparently, there, the question is asked: "What did YOU DO, with what I GAVE YOU?? Your subsequent Reward (Whatever that means) will be predicated on the answer.

                      "Salvation" isn't the issue, of course, since even if ALL YOUR WORKS are burnt up in the test, you're STILL SAVED, but "suffer loss" (Whatever that means)

                      1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire..
                      Last edited by Bob Carabbio; 10-16-19, 04:21 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tallen View Post

                        Well..., if you mean that we are saved by grace through faith..., then I agree. Not saved by works, but saved to be obedient and do good works. It's called sanctification. The work begins after salvation as we cooperate with the Holy Spirit.

                        There is no work that we can do to save ourselves.
                        Wow! We agree once again!
                        Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

                        Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hemi View Post

                          It all works together and not one part is Alone. We do the works God gave us as He said in Ephesians. And if we do not repent and become obedient we will be lost. We're obedient first, that's our duty our command. Grace alone don't save or else the Bible is a lie and no one goes to hell. Faith alone don't save or else Jesus lied when He said "Not all who say to me Lord Lord will be saved, but those who do the will of my Father in heaven".

                          Faith is not alone, Grace is not alone, Obedience is not alone, Leave either one out and a person is Lost.
                          We are saved by faith which we are given by God's unmerited favor (grace). Obedience is what we do after we're born again (saved), because then we desire to please our Father.
                          Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

                          Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hemi View Post

                            It all works together and not one part is Alone. We do the works God gave us as He said in Ephesians. And if we do not repent and become obedient we will be lost. We're obedient first, that's our duty our command. Grace alone don't save or else the Bible is a lie and no one goes to hell. Faith alone don't save or else Jesus lied when He said "Not all who say to me Lord Lord will be saved, but those who do the will of my Father in heaven".

                            Faith is not alone, Grace is not alone, Obedience is not alone, Leave either one out and a person is Lost.
                            That's Pietism at its most extreme. You are correct, they all work together. Faith alone by grace alone in Christ alone. You see... It was His obedience, not ours. A faith that's boasts of works of obedience outside the obedience of Christ is no faith at all.

                            Luther's problem was solved at faith alone, you've picked up his problem once more and accepted an anti christ popish gospel of pietism.

                            And that gospel is not good news.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by turtlegs View Post

                              That's Pietism at its most extreme. You are correct, they all work together. Faith alone by grace alone in Christ alone. You see... It was His obedience, not ours.
                              Therefore the Bible is a lie and there is no Hell.

                              Originally posted by turtlegs View Post
                              A faith that's boasts of works of obedience outside the obedience of Christ is no faith at all.
                              Then why does not all obey the gospel?
                              Originally posted by turtlegs View Post
                              Luther's problem was solved at faith alone, you've picked up his problem once more and accepted an anti christ popish gospel of pietism.

                              And that gospel is not good news.
                              I don't care about Luther. The Bible is clear, we are commanded to be obedient Claiming God didn't demand we live by the works He gave us is calling Him and His word and the Holy Spirit a Liar.

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