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Is there any evidence for Noah's flood?

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  • Is there any evidence for Noah's flood?

    This study seems to find no evidence for Noah's flood.

    Study traces ecological collapse over 6,000 years of Egyptian history
    The researchers identified five episodes over the past 6,000 years when dramatic changes occurred in Egypt's mammalian community, three of which coincided with extreme environmental changes as the climate shifted to more arid conditions. These drying periods also coincided with upheaval in human societies, such as the collapse of the Old Kingdom around 4,000 years ago and the fall of the New Kingdom about 3,000 years ago.

    "There were three large pulses of aridification as Egypt went from a wetter to a drier climate, starting with the end of the African Humid Period 5,500 years ago when the monsoons shifted to the south," Yeakel said. "At the same time, human population densities were increasing, and competition for space along the Nile Valley would have had a large impact on animal populations."

    The most recent major shift in mammalian communities occurred about 100 years ago.
    Instead of a flood, the environment becomes progressively drier, starting from about the Earth was supposed to be created.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Keith C View Post
    This study seems to find no evidence for Noah's flood.

    Study traces ecological collapse over 6,000 years of Egyptian history

    Instead of a flood, the environment becomes progressively drier, starting from about the Earth was supposed to be created.
    Let's be honest, the Flood has never been a particularly scientifically plausible story. I mean, the Exodus is pushing it with its 40-year trek of ridiculously many people across a desert, or splitting seas and sending out plagues, but it can't touch global genocide in scope. The evidence for a global deluge wouldn't just be obvious - it would be significant enough that nobody could ignore it. Seriously, if a giant meteor hit the earth 4000 years ago, we would probably know. Beyond stories of the time, there would be very visible remains of that event, for example. So what would happen concerning an event that was literally a thousand times bigger and touched literally every part of the world?

    This fable ranks about up there with the birth of languages & a woman turning into salt from peeking.
    Originally posted by Philosopher-Astronomer Giordano Bruno, 1600
    "Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns ... Living beings inhabit these worlds."
    Originally posted by Chemist
    Reality rules, Honor the truth.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Keith C View Post
      This study seems to find no evidence for Noah's flood.
      Study traces ecological collapse over 6,000 years of Egyptian history
      Instead of a flood, the environment becomes progressively drier, starting from about the Earth was supposed to be created.
      Fossils are not generally formed from slow sedimentation. Almost the entire fossil record is testimony of the universal flood. The reason people think the sediments formed over long periods of time is because of bad guesses by a handful of men that caught on with people wanting to believe those bad assumptions.
      I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

      If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

      For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

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      • #4
        The Sequence

        Originally posted by marke View Post
        Fossils are not generally formed from slow sedimentation. Almost the entire fossil record is testimony of the universal flood. The reason people think the sediments formed over long periods of time is because of bad guesses by a handful of men that caught on with people wanting to believe those bad assumptions.
        Even if you ignore all the time implications a single flood event cannot sort out the fossils and strata into the sequences we find them on a global scale.
        "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"

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        • #5
          Originally posted by marke View Post
          Fossils are not generally formed from slow sedimentation. Almost the entire fossil record is testimony of the universal flood. The reason people think the sediments formed over long periods of time is because of bad guesses by a handful of men that caught on with people wanting to believe those bad assumptions.
          No marke, you are wrong. Flat out wrong. You have had things explained to you many times, but you perseverate in denying the facts of the matter.

          Might I direct your attention to some comments you made on the CONspiracy board, a couple of months ago? You very correctly pointed out that one of the 9/11 troofers totally ignored facts, math, and physics while insisting that the twin towers could not have fallen due to the observed impact of very large, very fast, and fully fueled airliners.

          Think about what you are doing.
          Reality rules, Honor the truth - in memory of Chemist.

          fusilier
          James 2:24

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          • #6
            Originally posted by marke View Post
            Fossils are not generally formed from slow sedimentation. Almost the entire fossil record is testimony of the universal flood. The reason people think the sediments formed over long periods of time is because of bad guesses by a handful of men that caught on with people wanting to believe those bad assumptions.
            Has it ever occurred to you that there are two types of fossilization.
            1. is the fossilization of hard parts - bones and sea-shells for example - where flesh and organic matter is usually absent, and the fossil is encased in a rock like sandstone or mudstone. Slow burial after organic remains have decomposed is perfectly adequate explanation. In some cases the original calcium carbonate etc may have been dissolved away by water, leaving only a mold of the original relic.
            2. is fossilization of flesh, skin and soft tissue. Here rapid burial or some other means to exclude oxygen and bacterial decay while mud or volcanic ash hardens to preserve the original form of the organism.

            1. is more common, but 2. provides more information.
            The fossil record is not testimony to a universal flood. Instead, fossil-containing strata are often separated by volcanic flows, or signs of erosion and soil formation, even wind-deposited material all incompatible with a universal flood. You are the victim of ignorant preachers, or your own lack of curiosity.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Roarian View Post
              Let's be honest, the Flood has never been a particularly scientifically plausible story. I mean, the Exodus is pushing it with its 40-year trek of ridiculously many people across a desert, or splitting seas and sending out plagues, but it can't touch global genocide in scope. The evidence for a global deluge wouldn't just be obvious - it would be significant enough that nobody could ignore it. Seriously, if a giant meteor hit the earth 4000 years ago, we would probably know. Beyond stories of the time, there would be very visible remains of that event, for example. So what would happen concerning an event that was literally a thousand times bigger and touched literally every part of the world?

              This fable ranks about up there with the birth of languages & a woman turning into salt from peeking.
              And even without a skerrick of real evidence to support it, the story is silly and illogical anyway, given that the bible says that the only ones drowned were all Noah's extended family, including his grandfather (Gen 5:27), his aunts & uncles (Gen 5:26) and their families, plus his brothers and sisters (Gen 5:30) and their families. Not to mention Noah's hundreds of other children born before Mrs Noah turned 500 when she gave birth to triplets (Gen 5:32) and their families, and any other children Mrs Noah gave birth to before her 600th birthday. And besides, Genesis 7:20 says that the flood height was only 15 cubits anyway, which didn't even drown an olive tree (Gen 8:11) or a pine tree still happily growing in California, which was a mature tree when Adam's grandfather was a boy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methuselah_(tree) And with the biblical evidence disproving the story, one doesn't even have to ask the logical question where the flood water came from and where it drained to.
              Last edited by juglans1; 09-09-14, 05:16 PM.
              ... always look on the bright side of life - Idle Cleese

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              • #8
                Is there any evidence for Noah's flood?
                "Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians, Persians, Hindus, Greeks, Chinese, Phrygians, Fiji Islanders, Esquimaux, Aboriginal Americans, Indians, Brazilians, Peruvians, and indeed every branch of the whole human race, Semitic, Aryan, Turanian--have traditions of a Great Deluge that destroyed all mankind, except one family, and which impressed itself indelibly on the memory of the ancestors of all these races before they separated. 'All these myths are intelligible only on the supposition that some such event did actually occur. Such a universal belief, not springing from some instinctive principle of our nature, must be based on an Historical Fact'" (Halley's Bible Handbook).
                Let thy mercies come also unto me, O LORD, even thy salvation, according to thy word. So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word. (Ps. 119:41-42)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by boldirishlass View Post
                  "Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians, Persians, Hindus, Greeks, Chinese, Phrygians, Fiji Islanders, Esquimaux, Aboriginal Americans, Indians, Brazilians, Peruvians, and indeed every branch of the whole human race, Semitic, Aryan, Turanian--have traditions of a Great Deluge that destroyed all mankind, except one family, and which impressed itself indelibly on the memory of the ancestors of all these races before they separated. 'All these myths are intelligible only on the supposition that some such event did actually occur. Such a universal belief, not springing from some instinctive principle of our nature, must be based on an Historical Fact'" (Halley's Bible Handbook).
                  They are still all just myths about different local floods. And if you actually believe that Mount Everest (8848 m high) or even Mt Ararat (5165 m high) was covered with an ocean in the last 4000 years, then perhaps you can show us where all that extra water came from and how and where it drained to.
                  Last edited by juglans1; 09-09-14, 06:15 PM.
                  ... always look on the bright side of life - Idle Cleese

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by juglans1 View Post
                    They are still just myths about local floods.
                    The Sumerian King List, which dates to at least 2,000 B.C., divides the kings of Mesopotamia into the era before the flood and the era after the flood. It says:

                    "The Flood then swept over. After the Flood had swept over, and the kingship had descended from heaven, Kish became the seat of kingship…"

                    According to tablets unearthed from Kish in the early 20th century, students in ancient times who wanted to learn the Sumerian language went to Shuruppak, a city that claimed to have preserved writing from before the Flood (Foster and Foster, Civilizations of Ancient Iraq, p. 40)

                    According to the Bible, it was a global deluge caused by a combination of 40 days of epic rain and the very underground foundations of the earth breaking up and releasing their waters, and the archeological evidence supports this.

                    (source: Bible Times & Ancient Kingdoms, Treasures from Archeology, David W. Cloud)
                    Let thy mercies come also unto me, O LORD, even thy salvation, according to thy word. So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word. (Ps. 119:41-42)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by boldirishlass View Post
                      The Sumerian King List, which dates to at least 2,000 B.C., divides the kings of Mesopotamia into the era before the flood and the era after the flood. It says:

                      "The Flood then swept over. After the Flood had swept over, and the kingship had descended from heaven, Kish became the seat of kingship…"

                      According to tablets unearthed from Kish in the early 20th century, students in ancient times who wanted to learn the Sumerian language went to Shuruppak, a city that claimed to have preserved writing from before the Flood (Foster and Foster, Civilizations of Ancient Iraq, p. 40)

                      According to the Bible, it was a global deluge caused by a combination of 40 days of epic rain and the very underground foundations of the earth breaking up and releasing their waters, and the archeological evidence supports this.

                      (source: Bible Times & Ancient Kingdoms, Treasures from Archeology, David W. Cloud)
                      So what, it's still only a myth about a local flood and not about a totally illogical story without the slightest skerrick of evidence to support it. And besides, Genesis 7:20 says that the flood height was only 15 cubits which didn't drown an olive tree (Genesis 8:11).
                      Last edited by juglans1; 09-09-14, 06:32 PM.
                      ... always look on the bright side of life - Idle Cleese

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by juglans1 View Post
                        So what, it's still only a myth about a local flood and not about a totally illogical story without the slightest skerrick of evidence to support it.
                        William F. Albright. The Archaeology of Palestine, rev. edition. Harmondsworth, Middlesex: Pelican Books, 1960, pp.127, 128. “The excessive scepticism shown toward the Bible by important historical schools of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, certain phases of which still appear periodically, has been progressively discredited. Discovery after discovery has established the accuracy of innumerable details, and has brought increased recognition to the value of the Bible as a source of history.”

                        E. M. Blaiklock, Christianity Today, September 28, 1973, p. 13.
                        “Recent archaeology has destroyed much nonsense and will destroy more. And I use the word nonsense deliberately, for theories and speculations find currency in biblical scholarship that would not be tolerated for a moment in any other branch of literary or historical criticism.” (source)

                        "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (2 Peter 3:3-6)

                        It was not until the 19th Century that the willful ignorance that the apostle Peter wrote about 2,000 years ago came to the fore. Fulfilled prophecy is also indisputable evidence of the divine inspiration of Scripture.
                        Let thy mercies come also unto me, O LORD, even thy salvation, according to thy word. So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word. (Ps. 119:41-42)

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                        • #13
                          Your sources date to 1960 and 1973. Huge discoveries have taken place since them. I'll note just two massive local floods in the area ---- the Black Sea Basin @7600YBP and the Arabian Gulf @10,000 YBP. Both events were associated with the ending of the last ice age which resulted in sea levels rising about 200 ft. Is it any wonder that floods figure prominently in the tribal legends of people all over the world?
                          The floggings will continue until morale improves.

                          Never argue with a fool. They will only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by boldirishlass View Post
                            William F. Albright. The Archaeology of Palestine, rev. edition. Harmondsworth, Middlesex: Pelican Books, 1960, pp.127, 128. “The excessive scepticism shown toward the Bible by important historical schools of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, certain phases of which still appear periodically, has been progressively discredited. Discovery after discovery has established the accuracy of innumerable details, and has brought increased recognition to the value of the Bible as a source of history.”

                            E. M. Blaiklock, Christianity Today, September 28, 1973, p. 13.
                            “Recent archaeology has destroyed much nonsense and will destroy more. And I use the word nonsense deliberately, for theories and speculations find currency in biblical scholarship that would not be tolerated for a moment in any other branch of literary or historical criticism.” (source)

                            So what, Genesis 7:20 says that the flood height was only 15 cubits and didn't drown an olive tree (Gen 8:11) despite all the florid description of flood waters seemingly rising up out of the ground, which is what all river floods appear to do anyway. And why did Noah's god only drown all Noah's extended family including his grandfather (Gen 5:27), his aunts and uncles (Gen 5:26) and his brothers and sisters (Gen 5:30) and their families? And not to mention all Noah's other children and families born before Mrs Noah gave birth to triplets at aged 500 years old (Gen 5:32) or those born before her 600th birthday, if you actually believe such silly nonsense.

                            And those personal comments by E M Blaiklock don't support your case anyway.
                            Last edited by juglans1; 09-09-14, 08:06 PM.
                            ... always look on the bright side of life - Idle Cleese

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by juglans1 View Post
                              So what, Genesis 7:20 says that the flood height was only 15 cubits and didn't drown an olive tree (Gen 8:11) despite all the florid description of flood waters seemingly to rise up out of the ground, which is what all river floods appear to do. And why did Noah's god only drown all Noah's extended family including his grandfather (Gen 5:27), his aunts and uncles (Gen 5:26) and his brothers and sisters (Gen 5:30) and their families. And not to mention all Noah's other children and families born before Mrs Noah gave birth to triplets at aged 500 years old (Gen 5:32) or those born before her 600th birthday, if you actually believe that silly nonsense.
                              "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered." (Genesis 7:20) The waters were 15 cubits (22.5 feet) above the highest mountains, patently including Mt. Ararat, which is now 17,000 feet high. In the "local flood" theory, Mt. Ararat would have been the same elevation before and after the flood, but it is obvious that a 17,000 foot flood is not a local flood.

                              Genesis 8:11 ~ The olive tree is extremely hardy and can grow on almost barren, rocky slopes. The fresh olive leaf plucked by the dove proved the land was beginning to produce a vegetal cover and so would soon be ready to support its human and animal residents again. Both seeds and cuttings from pre-Flood plants were abundant in the sediments of the Flood and could grow as soon as adequate sunlight and dry land were available. Experiments have shown that seeds of a wide variety of plants will sprout even after many months of submergence in salt water.

                              Genesis 5:6-32 ~ These records provide three items of necessary information nowhere else available. (1) the names of the antediluvian patriarchs in the line of the promised Seed, who would ultimately fulfill God's Protevangelic promise (these names are accepted as authentic and repeated in 1 Chronicles 1:1-4 and Luke 3:36-38); (2) the chronological framework of primeval history, showing a total of 1656 years from Adam to the Flood (there is no internal evidence to suggest any gaps to these records); and (3) the lifespans of the antediluvians averaged over 900 years (912 to be exact, excluding Enoch), indicating environmental conditions were vastly superior to our age.

                              A "king list" was excavated near Babel, which tells of ten kings who had lived to great ages before the Flood. Although these ages were first deciphered as thousands of years, improved translations have brought them more in line with those in the Bible record. The Egyptians, Chinese, Greeks and Romans also record a tradition that the ancient men lived to great ages.

                              (source:The Defender's Study Bible, Dr. Henry Morris)
                              Let thy mercies come also unto me, O LORD, even thy salvation, according to thy word. So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word. (Ps. 119:41-42)

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