Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

Is there any evidence for Noah's flood?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Aman777 View Post

    Unworthy of comment since it cannot be supported by the Scripture you listed, nor by any other Scripture. Remember that you must account for every idle word. Mat 12:36
    In other words, you've never actually read the bible and just make up stories about most of Noah's family being drowned in Lake Van 11,000 years ago.
    Or was that a different Noah in your Lake Van story since Luke 3:36 says that most of Noah's family were drowned about 3650 years ago in a 15 cubit-high flood.
    ... always look on the bright side of life - Idle Cleese

    Comment


    • Originally posted by juglans1 View Post
      In other words, you've never actually read the bible and just make up stories about most of Noah's family being drowned in Lake Van 11,000 years ago.
      Or was that a different Noah in your Lake Van story since Luke 3:36 says that most of Noah's family were drowned about 3650 years ago in a 15 cubit-high flood.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Aman777 View Post

        That's your choice if you don't believe what the bible actually says, which is that the particular flood which drowned most of Noah's family was only 15 cubits high and drained away like every other similar flood.

        ... always look on the bright side of life - Idle Cleese

        Comment


        • Originally posted by juglans1 View Post
          That's your choice if you don't believe what the bible actually says, which is that the particular flood which drowned most of Noah's family was only 15 cubits high and drained away like every other similar flood.
          ROTFLOL

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Aman777 View Post

            ROTFLOL
            Yep it is a silly story, but that's what the bible says.

            ... always look on the bright side of life - Idle Cleese

            Comment


            • By what mechanism has buried fossil fuel been placed thousands of feet below the ground? It is not the shifting of plates. It is thousands of miles of earth placed on top of dead plant and animal life. Without a global Flood you cannot claim that huge parts of the continents are only millions of years in appearance while only small bits here and there, show the alleged age of billions of years old.

              First off, YEC is not a modern hypothesis. It is the direct Word of God. No human in the ANE would have first hand knowledge of facts that happened more than 4000 years prior to when they lived. We are uncovering civs from about that length of time ago under dozens of feet of dirt and debri. There are still pyramids in Egypt completely buried. The Sahara has formed in the last 4000 years. Holding to a steady state theory we should not find humanoid remains from millions of years ago. They would be a mile under dirt and debris. Because you are ruling out that there ever was a global flood, as in "no" evidence. Even though the evidence we have is not steady state evidence, but evidence of great upheaval within perhaps a 12,000 year time span of a universe instantly created with an age of around 14 billion years. Including the exact ages of sensible life's of galaxies and a solar system with an age of around 4 billion years. The universe did not start out in a singularity of a few miles. It started out with a 14 billion year size, and has been expanding at an exelerated rate since God created it.

              I would posit that there was not only a Global Flood, but two planets colliding and the formation of the moon happened during that 150 day event that Noah went through. God does not use magic. God created the universe out of nothing as a mature universe accorded all the laws in it, and is quite capable of doing what is needed to work out Godís will still holding to the laws of physics or despite them. The Babylonians had first hand knowledge about what happened and wrote the event down as mythology because of oral traditions and the blurring of how life was before the Flood. What Adam lost thousands of years before the Flood, the rest of humanity lost during the Flood. All humans had left was the line of Adam and 4 different females from other lines prior to the Flood. Humans across the globe still had to manage with after floods for several thousand years. Floods that caused the Mediterranean to empty and fill 7 times. The continents formed from a single one after the Flood. All mountains were pushed up and sank after the Flood. The Mediterranean was the first split, and the Hymalayas was the last mountain range to raise to it's current height. Any "extra" water is now found in the polar ice caps.

              If you do not think that a Global Flood is possible, then you have to admit that all the ice in the poles could be turned into liquid water, and humans would still live comfortable lives. The earth was more uniform in the difference between the highest mountains and deepest ocean point we see today. Flat earth physics like flat universe physics. We may not fall off the edge of the universe. Can we travel around it's circumference? The earth also absorbed some of the planet the moon formed from. Partly from the huge chunks of debris that hit in the aftermath of this Flood event. Throughout the Bible, you can see mentions of mountains being turned into valleys and valleys into mountains. That was not imagined phenomenon. People watched it happened. It will happen again in the lifespan of humanity, when God will shorten the laws of physics allowing the earth and the sun to be destroyed when the sun becomes so large and dies as a normal star at the end of it's existence.

              This all happened not to deceive humans, but to give them what they would naturally find in working out the science involved in understanding the universe. If there was no evidence of how the moon and earth was formed, it would never work with what God told us in Genesis. God did not disclose all, because the ANE had first hand experience and did not need to be told. There had to be one record though out of dozens of ANE eyewitness or even altered oral accounts that was true. There also had to be a way for humans to reject that account and give humans the free will to make up their own mind on evidence found.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Timtofly View Post
                By what mechanism has buried fossil fuel been placed thousands of feet below the ground? It is not the shifting of plates. It is thousands of miles of earth placed on top of dead plant and animal life. Without a global Flood you cannot claim that huge parts of the continents are only millions of years in appearance while only small bits here and there, show the alleged age of billions of years old.

                First off, YEC is not a modern hypothesis. It is the direct Word of God. No human in the ANE would have first hand knowledge of facts that happened more than 4000 years prior to when they lived. We are uncovering civs from about that length of time ago under dozens of feet of dirt and debri. There are still pyramids in Egypt completely buried. The Sahara has formed in the last 4000 years. Holding to a steady state theory we should not find humanoid remains from millions of years ago. They would be a mile under dirt and debris. Because you are ruling out that there ever was a global flood, as in "no" evidence. Even though the evidence we have is not steady state evidence, but evidence of great upheaval within perhaps a 12,000 year time span of a universe instantly created with an age of around 14 billion years. Including the exact ages of sensible life's of galaxies and a solar system with an age of around 4 billion years. The universe did not start out in a singularity of a few miles. It started out with a 14 billion year size, and has been expanding at an exelerated rate since God created it.

                I would posit that there was not only a Global Flood, but two planets colliding and the formation of the moon happened during that 150 day event that Noah went through. God does not use magic. God created the universe out of nothing as a mature universe accorded all the laws in it, and is quite capable of doing what is needed to work out God’s will still holding to the laws of physics or despite them. The Babylonians had first hand knowledge about what happened and wrote the event down as mythology because of oral traditions and the blurring of how life was before the Flood. What Adam lost thousands of years before the Flood, the rest of humanity lost during the Flood. All humans had left was the line of Adam and 4 different females from other lines prior to the Flood. Humans across the globe still had to manage with after floods for several thousand years. Floods that caused the Mediterranean to empty and fill 7 times. The continents formed from a single one after the Flood. All mountains were pushed up and sank after the Flood. The Mediterranean was the first split, and the Hymalayas was the last mountain range to raise to it's current height. Any "extra" water is now found in the polar ice caps.

                If you do not think that a Global Flood is possible, then you have to admit that all the ice in the poles could be turned into liquid water, and humans would still live comfortable lives. The earth was more uniform in the difference between the highest mountains and deepest ocean point we see today. Flat earth physics like flat universe physics. We may not fall off the edge of the universe. Can we travel around it's circumference? The earth also absorbed some of the planet the moon formed from. Partly from the huge chunks of debris that hit in the aftermath of this Flood event. Throughout the Bible, you can see mentions of mountains being turned into valleys and valleys into mountains. That was not imagined phenomenon. People watched it happened. It will happen again in the lifespan of humanity, when God will shorten the laws of physics allowing the earth and the sun to be destroyed when the sun becomes so large and dies as a normal star at the end of it's existence.

                This all happened not to deceive humans, but to give them what they would naturally find in working out the science involved in understanding the universe. If there was no evidence of how the moon and earth was formed, it would never work with what God told us in Genesis. God did not disclose all, because the ANE had first hand experience and did not need to be told. There had to be one record though out of dozens of ANE eyewitness or even altered oral accounts that was true. There also had to be a way for humans to reject that account and give humans the free will to make up their own mind on evidence found.
                One word which seems to be missing from your vocabulary:

                Erosion.
                Regards, HRG.

                "The universe doesn't care what happens to its inhabitants, but its inhabitants do" (Tyrrho).

                Comment


                • Originally posted by HRG View Post

                  One word which seems to be missing from your vocabulary:

                  Erosion.
                  ...or maybe sanity.
                  "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by HRG View Post

                    One word which seems to be missing from your vocabulary:

                    Erosion.
                    The devil is in the details, God does the heavy "lifting"?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Timtofly View Post

                      The devil is in the details, God does the heavy "lifting"?
                      No. Plate tectonics does. "Sire, I did not need that hypothesis (God)." (Laplace).
                      Regards, HRG.

                      "The universe doesn't care what happens to its inhabitants, but its inhabitants do" (Tyrrho).

                      Comment


                      • If you want to follow the details of Satan in the actual evidence and use your own interpretation that is your privelege and choice. Humans are limited in knowledge and do not know everything.

                        Before I am condemned as pitting science against the Bible, and knowledge is sin, may I remind you that science is an ongoing practice, and not dogma.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Timtofly View Post
                          If you want to follow the details of Satan in the actual evidence and use your own interpretation that is your privelege and choice. Humans are limited in knowledge and do not know everything.

                          Before I am condemned as pitting science against the Bible, and knowledge is sin, may I remind you that science is an ongoing practice, and not dogma.
                          But it doesn't change the fact that biblical story says that the flood which drowned most of Noah's family was only 15 cubits high and doesn't say that flood was global, and given that the story says a nearby olive tree was unaffected.

                          ... always look on the bright side of life - Idle Cleese

                          Comment


                          • the water covered the mountains by more than twenty-two-and-a-half feet.

                            From the Complete Jewish Bible


                            The Bible does not contradict itself any more than you want it to. If water was 22 feet above the mountains what held the water in place, and prevented the water from covering the whole earth? Are you denying that an olive tree cannot grow after a flood?

                            ​​​​​​
                            One drawback of olive trees, however, is that they grow to full maturity quite slowly. During the first few years of its life, an olive tree will grow rather quickly, but growth slows thereafter. Hunker.Com

                            The verse does not say it was uneffected. It said it took a few months to grow back.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Timtofly View Post
                              the water covered the mountains by more than twenty-two-and-a-half feet.
                              WRONG. The fictional story in the KJV and the Hebrew bible clearly says that the flood which drowned most of Noah's family was only 15 cubits high, and that it drained away like every other similar local flood. And the bible does not say that that particular flood was global.

                              Genesis 7:20 King James Version (KJV)
                              20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail;
                              and the mountains were covered.

                              The Bible does not contradict itself any more than you want it to. If water was 22 feet above the mountains what held the water in place, and prevented the water from covering the whole earth? Are you denying that an olive tree cannot grow after a flood?​​​​​​ One drawback of olive trees, however, is that they grow to full maturity quite slowly. During the first few years of its life, an olive tree will grow rather quickly, but growth slows thereafter. Hunker.Com
                              That's because the olive tree wasn't growing in the area that was flooded, given that the bible clearly says that particular flood was only 15 cubits high.

                              ... always look on the bright side of life - Idle Cleese

                              Comment


                              • 17 Then the flood was forty days upon the earth, and the waters were increased, and bare up the Ark, which was lifted up above the earth.

                                18 The waters also waxed strong, and were increased exceedingly upon the earth, and the Ark went upon the waters.

                                19 The waters [j]prevailed so exceedingly upon the earth, that all the high mountains, that are under the whole heaven, were covered.

                                20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail, when the mountains were covered.

                                From the Geneva Bible

                                A cubit is 1.5 ft or .45 meters. 15 cubits is 22.5 ft. Or 6.75 m.

                                The Bible clearly states that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered. After the mountains were covered, the water went upward another 15 cubits.

                                You claim the story is fabricated. I get that. Why do you insist this fabricated account does not say what it claims?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X