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Is there any evidence for Noah's flood?

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  • fusilier
    replied
    Originally posted by cre8id View Post
    Or perhaps a correction of (or at least an alternate view to) talkorigins.org
    So why is it that "Trueorigins" refuses reciprocal linkies? Why is it that no one can easily double-check their claims?

    What are they afraid of, truth?

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  • Harikrish
    replied
    From the Christian Apologetic Press.

    More Americans are moving toward an interpretation of the Bible as a book of fables, history, and moral precepts. ...Attempts at demythologizing the Bible that have been ongoing in the academy for years seem to be moving more and more from the classroom to the pews.... As recently as 1963, two persons in three viewed the Bible as the actual word of God, to be taken literally, word for word. Today, only one person in three still holds to that interpretation (1999, p. 36).

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  • juglans1
    replied
    Originally posted by cre8id View Post
    It's amazing that we can read the same verses and you come away with such distorted view.
    How is my feasable interpretation of those stories distorted? How is your interpretation of those stories not distorted, when it relies on magic and fantasy and totally ignores the laws of physics and chemistry and biology and logic and common sense, plus a lack of understanding of the usage of the English language?
    Last edited by juglans1; 11-26-14, 04:12 PM.

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  • cre8id
    replied
    It's amazing that we can read the same verses and you come away with such distorted view.

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  • cre8id
    replied
    Originally posted by HRG View Post
    Please note that the trueorigin... started as a dishonest and fake copy of talkorigins.org.
    Or perhaps a correction of (or at least an alternate view to) talkorigins.org

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  • HRG
    replied
    Originally posted by cre8id View Post
    A lot of information has been collected in articles on one site and grouped together by topic: here.
    Permit me to add a syllable which you had missed (certainly not deliberately): a lot of disinformation.

    Please note that the trueorigin well is already full of poison, so no further additions are necessary. It started as a dishonest and fake copy of talkorigins.org.

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  • cre8id
    replied
    A lot of information has been collected in articles on one site and grouped together by topic: here.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Pixie
    replied
    Originally posted by boldirishlass View Post
    The Sumerian King List, which dates to at least 2,000 B.C., divides the kings of Mesopotamia into the era before the flood and the era after the flood. It says:

    "The Flood then swept over. After the Flood had swept over, and the kingship had descended from heaven, Kish became the seat of kingship…"
    So what you are saying is that there were all these kings and dynasties in Mesopotamia. The entire world was wiped out bar eight people, and those eight people (or some of them) decided it would be a good idea to re-establish all the all Sumerian dynasties, even though they were Hebrews.

    Have I understood that right?

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  • juglans1
    replied
    Originally posted by boldirishlass View Post
    "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered." (Genesis 7:20) The waters were 15 cubits (22.5 feet) above the highest mountains, patently including Mt. Ararat, which is now 17,000 feet high. In the "local flood" theory, Mt. Ararat would have been the same elevation before and after the flood, but it is obvious that a 17,000 foot flood is not a local flood.
    Incorrect!!! Genesis 7:20 says that the waters rose 15 cubits and that the "mountains" were covered, and it clearly doesn't say that there was 15 cubits above the "mountains", vis "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail[SIZE=5];[/SIZE]_________ and the mountains were covered". If you believe otherwise, how did Noah measure the depth of water above Mt Everest and/or Mt Ararat and/or Mt Kilimanjaro and/or Mt Aconcagua etc etc etc............... And if you believe that Mt Ararat was covered with water, then where did that extra 17000 feet in ocean depth come from, and where did it drain to, or did Noah's imagined god use a humungus pump to pump it into outer space? It's easy to write and read fantasy and pretend that the laws of physics or logic or reality don't apply.

    Genesis 8:11 ~ The olive tree is extremely hardy and can grow on almost barren, rocky slopes. The fresh olive leaf plucked by the dove proved the land was beginning to produce a vegetal cover and so would soon be ready to support its human and animal residents again. Both seeds and cuttings from pre-Flood plants were abundant in the sediments of the Flood and could grow as soon as adequate sunlight and dry land were available. Experiments have shown that seeds of a wide variety of plants will sprout even after many months of submergence in salt water.
    Nonsense!!! As an orchardist and retired plant physiologist I can assure you that your hypothesis is totally ridiculous and that olive trees cannot survive complete submersion by salty water for 150 days (Gen 7:24).

    Genesis 5:6-32 ~ These records provide three items of necessary information nowhere else available. (1) the names of the antediluvian patriarchs in the line of the promised Seed, who would ultimately fulfill God's Protevangelic promise (these names are accepted as authentic and repeated in 1 Chronicles 1:1-4 and Luke 3:36-38); (2) the chronological framework of primeval history, showing a total of 1656 years from Adam to the Flood (there is no internal evidence to suggest any gaps to these records); and (3) the lifespans of the antediluvians averaged over 900 years (912 to be exact, excluding Enoch), indicating environmental conditions were vastly superior to our ageA "king list" was excavated near Babel, which tells of ten kings who had lived to great ages before the Flood. Although these ages were first deciphered as thousands of years, improved translations have brought them more in line with those in the Bible record. The Egyptians, Chinese, Greeks and Romans also record a tradition that the ancient men lived to great ages.

    (source:The Defender's Study Bible, Dr. Henry Morris)
    Do you seriously believe that once upon a time women could still become pregnant at aged 130 years old (Gen 5:3), or have triplets at aged 500 years old (Gen 5:32), and therefore give birth to hundreds or even thousands of children during each woman's reproductive life?

    And where does the bible define what a Genesis "year" is, and how many days are in a Genesis "year"? The only feasible explanation is that a Genesis "year" was the length of an easily observed lunar cycle of ~29 days. And therefore Adam's partner became pregnant at aged 11 instead of an absurd 130 (Gen 5:3), and Noah's wife became pregnant with triplets at aged 41 instead of a totally ridiculous 500 (Gen 5:32), and that Noah's grandfather was about 80 years old when he was drowned (Gen 5:27) instead of a complete nonsense 969.
    Last edited by juglans1; 09-09-14, 11:33 PM.

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  • boldirishlass
    replied
    Originally posted by juglans1 View Post
    So what, Genesis 7:20 says that the flood height was only 15 cubits and didn't drown an olive tree (Gen 8:11) despite all the florid description of flood waters seemingly to rise up out of the ground, which is what all river floods appear to do. And why did Noah's god only drown all Noah's extended family including his grandfather (Gen 5:27), his aunts and uncles (Gen 5:26) and his brothers and sisters (Gen 5:30) and their families. And not to mention all Noah's other children and families born before Mrs Noah gave birth to triplets at aged 500 years old (Gen 5:32) or those born before her 600th birthday, if you actually believe that silly nonsense.
    "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered." (Genesis 7:20) The waters were 15 cubits (22.5 feet) above the highest mountains, patently including Mt. Ararat, which is now 17,000 feet high. In the "local flood" theory, Mt. Ararat would have been the same elevation before and after the flood, but it is obvious that a 17,000 foot flood is not a local flood.

    Genesis 8:11 ~ The olive tree is extremely hardy and can grow on almost barren, rocky slopes. The fresh olive leaf plucked by the dove proved the land was beginning to produce a vegetal cover and so would soon be ready to support its human and animal residents again. Both seeds and cuttings from pre-Flood plants were abundant in the sediments of the Flood and could grow as soon as adequate sunlight and dry land were available. Experiments have shown that seeds of a wide variety of plants will sprout even after many months of submergence in salt water.

    Genesis 5:6-32 ~ These records provide three items of necessary information nowhere else available. (1) the names of the antediluvian patriarchs in the line of the promised Seed, who would ultimately fulfill God's Protevangelic promise (these names are accepted as authentic and repeated in 1 Chronicles 1:1-4 and Luke 3:36-38); (2) the chronological framework of primeval history, showing a total of 1656 years from Adam to the Flood (there is no internal evidence to suggest any gaps to these records); and (3) the lifespans of the antediluvians averaged over 900 years (912 to be exact, excluding Enoch), indicating environmental conditions were vastly superior to our age.

    A "king list" was excavated near Babel, which tells of ten kings who had lived to great ages before the Flood. Although these ages were first deciphered as thousands of years, improved translations have brought them more in line with those in the Bible record. The Egyptians, Chinese, Greeks and Romans also record a tradition that the ancient men lived to great ages.

    (source:The Defender's Study Bible, Dr. Henry Morris)

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  • juglans1
    replied
    Originally posted by boldirishlass View Post
    William F. Albright. The Archaeology of Palestine, rev. edition. Harmondsworth, Middlesex: Pelican Books, 1960, pp.127, 128. “The excessive scepticism shown toward the Bible by important historical schools of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, certain phases of which still appear periodically, has been progressively discredited. Discovery after discovery has established the accuracy of innumerable details, and has brought increased recognition to the value of the Bible as a source of history.”

    E. M. Blaiklock, Christianity Today, September 28, 1973, p. 13.
    “Recent archaeology has destroyed much nonsense and will destroy more. And I use the word nonsense deliberately, for theories and speculations find currency in biblical scholarship that would not be tolerated for a moment in any other branch of literary or historical criticism.” (source)

    So what, Genesis 7:20 says that the flood height was only 15 cubits and didn't drown an olive tree (Gen 8:11) despite all the florid description of flood waters seemingly rising up out of the ground, which is what all river floods appear to do anyway. And why did Noah's god only drown all Noah's extended family including his grandfather (Gen 5:27), his aunts and uncles (Gen 5:26) and his brothers and sisters (Gen 5:30) and their families? And not to mention all Noah's other children and families born before Mrs Noah gave birth to triplets at aged 500 years old (Gen 5:32) or those born before her 600th birthday, if you actually believe such silly nonsense.

    And those personal comments by E M Blaiklock don't support your case anyway.
    Last edited by juglans1; 09-09-14, 08:06 PM.

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  • JRT
    replied
    Your sources date to 1960 and 1973. Huge discoveries have taken place since them. I'll note just two massive local floods in the area ---- the Black Sea Basin @7600YBP and the Arabian Gulf @10,000 YBP. Both events were associated with the ending of the last ice age which resulted in sea levels rising about 200 ft. Is it any wonder that floods figure prominently in the tribal legends of people all over the world?

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  • boldirishlass
    replied
    Originally posted by juglans1 View Post
    So what, it's still only a myth about a local flood and not about a totally illogical story without the slightest skerrick of evidence to support it.
    William F. Albright. The Archaeology of Palestine, rev. edition. Harmondsworth, Middlesex: Pelican Books, 1960, pp.127, 128. “The excessive scepticism shown toward the Bible by important historical schools of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, certain phases of which still appear periodically, has been progressively discredited. Discovery after discovery has established the accuracy of innumerable details, and has brought increased recognition to the value of the Bible as a source of history.”

    E. M. Blaiklock, Christianity Today, September 28, 1973, p. 13.
    “Recent archaeology has destroyed much nonsense and will destroy more. And I use the word nonsense deliberately, for theories and speculations find currency in biblical scholarship that would not be tolerated for a moment in any other branch of literary or historical criticism.” (source)

    "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (2 Peter 3:3-6)

    It was not until the 19th Century that the willful ignorance that the apostle Peter wrote about 2,000 years ago came to the fore. Fulfilled prophecy is also indisputable evidence of the divine inspiration of Scripture.

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  • juglans1
    replied
    Originally posted by boldirishlass View Post
    The Sumerian King List, which dates to at least 2,000 B.C., divides the kings of Mesopotamia into the era before the flood and the era after the flood. It says:

    "The Flood then swept over. After the Flood had swept over, and the kingship had descended from heaven, Kish became the seat of kingship…"

    According to tablets unearthed from Kish in the early 20th century, students in ancient times who wanted to learn the Sumerian language went to Shuruppak, a city that claimed to have preserved writing from before the Flood (Foster and Foster, Civilizations of Ancient Iraq, p. 40)

    According to the Bible, it was a global deluge caused by a combination of 40 days of epic rain and the very underground foundations of the earth breaking up and releasing their waters, and the archeological evidence supports this.

    (source: Bible Times & Ancient Kingdoms, Treasures from Archeology, David W. Cloud)
    So what, it's still only a myth about a local flood and not about a totally illogical story without the slightest skerrick of evidence to support it. And besides, Genesis 7:20 says that the flood height was only 15 cubits which didn't drown an olive tree (Genesis 8:11).
    Last edited by juglans1; 09-09-14, 06:32 PM.

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  • boldirishlass
    replied
    Originally posted by juglans1 View Post
    They are still just myths about local floods.
    The Sumerian King List, which dates to at least 2,000 B.C., divides the kings of Mesopotamia into the era before the flood and the era after the flood. It says:

    "The Flood then swept over. After the Flood had swept over, and the kingship had descended from heaven, Kish became the seat of kingship…"

    According to tablets unearthed from Kish in the early 20th century, students in ancient times who wanted to learn the Sumerian language went to Shuruppak, a city that claimed to have preserved writing from before the Flood (Foster and Foster, Civilizations of Ancient Iraq, p. 40)

    According to the Bible, it was a global deluge caused by a combination of 40 days of epic rain and the very underground foundations of the earth breaking up and releasing their waters, and the archeological evidence supports this.

    (source: Bible Times & Ancient Kingdoms, Treasures from Archeology, David W. Cloud)

    Leave a comment:

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