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Gobekli Tepe

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  • Gobekli Tepe

    The ruins are estimated to be 12,000 year old. This site may wind up causing a rewrite of some history books.
    Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

    Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

  • #2
    Originally posted by AlFin View Post
    The ruins are estimated to be 12,000 year old. This site may wind up causing a rewrite of some history books.
    If confirmed, young-earth-creationists should reevaluate archbishop Ussher's work on the date of creation ( October 23rd, 4004 B.C.).
    "The exact sciences also start from the assumption that in the end it will always be possible to understand nature, even in every new field of experience, but that we make no a priori assumptions about the meaning of the word "understand"."

    Heisenberg
    .....................

    " It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and it is the glory of a king to search out a matter. " ( Proverbs 25:2 )

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by inertia View Post

      If confirmed, young-earth-creationists should reevaluate archbishop Ussher's work on the date of creation ( October 23rd, 4004 B.C.).
      I doubt they'd see it that way. More likely they will just claim that the archeologist's dating method is seriously flawed.
      Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

      Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by AlFin View Post
        The ruins are estimated to be 12,000 year old. This site may wind up causing a rewrite of some history books.
        This is hardly news. Or are you trying to enliven the YECs?
        On the evidence:

        If there were no Patriarchs, no Exodus, no conquest of Canaan, no united monarchy under David and Solomon. Can the early biblical Israel described in the books of Moses, Judges, Joshua, and Samuel, ever have existed at all?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

          This is hardly news. Or are you trying to enliven the YECs?
          I didn't see any thread on the ruins so I started one, that's the only reason. What my fellow Christians believe about the age of the universe is their concern, I'm an old age Earth guy, and I don't get embroiled in debates about the age of the universe. The universe's age is what it is no matter what we believe it is.
          Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

          Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by AlFin View Post

            I didn't see any thread on the ruins so I started one, that's the only reason. What my fellow Christians believe about the age of the universe is their concern, I'm an old age Earth guy, and I don't get embroiled in debates about the age of the universe. The universe's age is what it is no matter what we believe it is.
            My apologies. I should have stated that this is hardly news in the world of archaeology and history. As you have remarked, it may be "news" to some here on CARM.
            On the evidence:

            If there were no Patriarchs, no Exodus, no conquest of Canaan, no united monarchy under David and Solomon. Can the early biblical Israel described in the books of Moses, Judges, Joshua, and Samuel, ever have existed at all?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

              My apologies. I should have stated that this is hardly news in the world of archaeology and history. As you have remarked, it may be "news" to some here on CARM.
              I get my archaeology "fix" from the TV. It was only recently that any of the history shows mentioned this site (to date, I've only seen 2 shows about it). Most have been on well-known locations like Egypt, Central and South America, some in North America, England, and such.
              Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

              Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by AlFin View Post

                I get my archaeology "fix" from the TV. It was only recently that any of the history shows mentioned this site (to date, I've only seen 2 shows about it). Most have been on well-known locations like Egypt, Central and South America, some in North America, England, and such.
                Television documentaries do tend to arrive some time after the initial work has been done and assessed. Klaus Schmidt led the archaeological team from 1996-2014.

                You should be able to get this from Amazon USA or your local library. https://www.amazon.de/Sie-bauten-die...i+Tepe+Schmidt.



                On the evidence:

                If there were no Patriarchs, no Exodus, no conquest of Canaan, no united monarchy under David and Solomon. Can the early biblical Israel described in the books of Moses, Judges, Joshua, and Samuel, ever have existed at all?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                  Television documentaries do tend to arrive some time after the initial work has been done and assessed. Klaus Schmidt led the archaeological team from 1996-2014.

                  You should be able to get this from Amazon USA or your local library. https://www.amazon.de/Sie-bauten-die...i+Tepe+Schmidt.
                  You're right about the lag time between a discovery and a TV documentary. It's one of the frustrations about them, and since I'm a metrologist and not an archeologist that's the way it goes.

                  One thing I've noticed as the new discoveries are made is the fact that ancient humans were much smarter than the more recent generations gives them credit for. This is what keeps my interest high in new discoveries.
                  Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

                  Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AlFin View Post

                    You're right about the lag time between a discovery and a TV documentary. It's one of the frustrations about them, and since I'm a metrologist and not an archeologist that's the way it goes.
                    Really? Are you a theorist or involved with the practicalities? As for archaeology the cleaning, restoring, dating, analysing, and cataloguing of finds can take years so it can be a protracted business.


                    Originally posted by AlFin View Post
                    One thing I've noticed as the new discoveries are made is the fact that ancient humans were much smarter than the more recent generations gives them credit for. This is what keeps my interest high in new discoveries.
                    I think we need to remember that ancient people were very like us. They had the same emotions,day-to-day hopes, and worries as most people do today and they lacked nothing for ingenuity.

                    Of course with a site like Gobekli-Tepe it clearly was not rag-tag groups of hunter-gatherers but required hundred of workers who all needed to be fed and housed. However, the area, as it was then, would have had sufficient resources to support such a community. And to arrange all that requires some form of social organisation, if not a social hierarchy.

                    As for "smartness" well we can drive cars and operate a computer, but how many of us could identify a piece of flint? And then know how to knap it?
                    On the evidence:

                    If there were no Patriarchs, no Exodus, no conquest of Canaan, no united monarchy under David and Solomon. Can the early biblical Israel described in the books of Moses, Judges, Joshua, and Samuel, ever have existed at all?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It could indeed cause a rewrite. But if it was built in C-14 11000 BC that was after the flood of 2350 BC in real time.
                      I know my need for Christ

                      "But the evolution of intelligence presumes qualities that are useless until they are realized. And how in the world can some kind of chain in adaptability be appealed to in this case?"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PRS View Post
                        It could indeed cause a rewrite. But if it was built in C-14 11000 BC that was after the flood of 2350 BC in real time.
                        Pardon? Are you referring to localised flooding?
                        On the evidence:

                        If there were no Patriarchs, no Exodus, no conquest of Canaan, no united monarchy under David and Solomon. Can the early biblical Israel described in the books of Moses, Judges, Joshua, and Samuel, ever have existed at all?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The Global Flood of c. 2350 BC.
                          I know my need for Christ

                          "But the evolution of intelligence presumes qualities that are useless until they are realized. And how in the world can some kind of chain in adaptability be appealed to in this case?"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by PRS View Post
                            The Global Flood of c. 2350 BC.
                            There was no such flood. Had there been I think the great civilisations of the ancient world would have recorded it somewhere, don't you?
                            On the evidence:

                            If there were no Patriarchs, no Exodus, no conquest of Canaan, no united monarchy under David and Solomon. Can the early biblical Israel described in the books of Moses, Judges, Joshua, and Samuel, ever have existed at all?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              They did.
                              I know my need for Christ

                              "But the evolution of intelligence presumes qualities that are useless until they are realized. And how in the world can some kind of chain in adaptability be appealed to in this case?"

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