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As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

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Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
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What are the mosty convincing finds for the Bible?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by quetzloc View Post

    no one is claiming that parents are omnipotent; however I don't need to be to know my kids are going to sin. Your point of view appears to be that God should have been a taskmaster (not allowing free choice), instead of granting humanity the very freedom you are currently utilizing to complain about Him.

    Or perhaps He should have let people sin and reject Him, and still remain in His presence (heaven) instead of punishment (hell).

    Should we likewise blame God for letting you deny Him?
    But that's a different god to the OT god given the OT doesn't mention anything about a heaven or a hell or anything about after-death punishment. Indeed John 3:13 says that none of the OT characters ever went to heaven anyway, including Abraham & Moses & Noah etc, and perhaps they preferred to go to paradise with 72 virgins instead.

    ... always look on the bright side of life - Idle Cleese

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    • #62
      Originally posted by quetzloc View Post

      no one is claiming that parents are omnipotent; however I don't need to be to know my kids are going to sin. Your point of view appears to be that God should have been a taskmaster (not allowing free choice), instead of granting humanity the very freedom you are currently utilizing to complain about Him.
      But he did not allow free choice. He punishes those who don't exercise this choice as he commands.
      Regards, HRG.

      "The universe doesn't care what happens to its inhabitants, but its inhabitants do" (Tyrrho).

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      • #63
        Originally posted by tiburon View Post

        Sorry Leo.
        I don't see how that answers the question.
        Why shouldn't we blame god for our pain and suffering?
        Nerve impulses are what runs your body.
        It's your brain that identifies it as pain.
        The impulses are the same for eyesight or to help you walk.
        - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

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        • #64
          Originally posted by HRG View Post

          But he did not allow free choice. He punishes those who don't exercise this choice as he commands.
          God doesn't punish anyone. You torment yourself in Hell. Nobody else is involved.
          - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

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          • #65
            Originally posted by juglans1 View Post
            But that's a different god to the OT god given the OT doesn't mention anything about a heaven or a hell or anything about after-death punishment. Indeed John 3:13 says that none of the OT characters ever went to heaven anyway, including Abraham & Moses & Noah etc, and perhaps they preferred to go to paradise with 72 virgins instead.
            There is no external punishment. That would be more bearable.
            - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

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            • #66
              Originally posted by LeoTheLibrarian View Post

              Nerve impulses are what runs your body.
              It's your brain that identifies it as pain.
              The impulses are the same for eyesight or to help you walk.
              So there is neither bad nor good but thinking makes it so?

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              • #67
                Originally posted by LeoTheLibrarian View Post

                God doesn't punish anyone. You torment yourself in Hell. Nobody else is involved.
                Who created hell, established the mechanism which will - allegedly - send me to hell, and both enabled and forced me to torment myself in that place ?

                Omnipotence implies omniresponsibility!
                Regards, HRG.

                "The universe doesn't care what happens to its inhabitants, but its inhabitants do" (Tyrrho).

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by HRG View Post

                  Who created hell, established the mechanism which will - allegedly - send me to hell, and both enabled and forced me to torment myself in that place ?

                  Omnipotence implies omniresponsibility!
                  God established Heaven or Paradise. If you choose not to trust God of believe that He exists
                  then the last place you would desire would be an eternity with God whom you don't
                  trust or believe in. Forcing you to be in Heaven would be your worst Hell.

                  Instead, you end up outside of paradise and subject to nothing. Assuming you've never done any
                  regrettable deeds in your life, you won't be tormented in the slightest. Any misery in hell will be
                  completely justified in your own mind.
                  - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

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