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Who believes atheists when they post "they were once a Christian"?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Vangelis View Post
    No true Scotsman
    Oh goody that again. Yipppeeeeeee.........

    Yeah, no true Scotsman is born of Cuban parents whose ancestors have been Cuban for generations. Try that on for size.
    One thing have I asked of the LORD... that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze upon the beauty of the LORD and to inquire in his temple.--Psalm 27:4


    • #77
      Originally posted by SteveB View Post
      ..I always answer straight.
      There is no disengenuity in my responses.
      I take everyone here seriously. Sometimes the only reasonable response is sarcasm.
      Your contradicting yourself here.

      It's only unreliable to those who reject it. It's far more reliable than you or any other human being will ever be.
      Granted, you would not know this, because you decided that you know better.
      It's unreliable because of the way it was written, and btw, you think the bible is reliable because you think you know better.

      Thanks for demonstrating that you don't listen.
      Raising the reasonable question that it's not me who is not making any sense. Rather, it's you who've decided that God is unreliable, and so you have done exactly what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2---because you don't love the truth, you have become deluded, and as further stated in Romans 1, professing themselves to be wise, they have become fools.
      So what if Iv'e done exactly what Paul is reported to have said? You haven't said how you know we have the exact words, or even the inexact words, of anyone in the Bible.

      Now, to the matter at hand.

      If someone thinks and feels the same as you think and feel about Jesus, God, are they a Christian? Please answer this concisely, even if you think you have answered it already.
      "My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose." JBS Haldane.


      • #78
        Originally posted by Mathison View Post
        I believe most things people tell me about themselves.

        Except when those people are Nouveau.

        Then I take any and all claims with a very large grain of salt.
        So they said they were "Christians" and knew God was true, Then they said that had been wrong. 2 stories and they do not match.


        • #79
          Originally posted by WendyWrites View Post
          I do listen to their stories, especially as relates to what went on in the church. And I try to listen to what is not said. A lot, a lot, a lot is unsaid.

          But as for "I used to be a Christian"--not believable. I've never read a story on that topic that's believable. It's the parable of the sower all over again, just as you say.
          Lot of pretense in atheism.


          • #80
            Originally posted by Nouveau View Post
            I don't. Why should I?
            Understandable. How could someone like you who holds... how many degrees is it now? 10? 12? I lost count a long time ago to be honest. possibly take the word of any other human.
            There have been thousands of Gods through out human history. But dont worry! YOUR god is the right one.


            • #81
              Originally posted by Vangelis View Post
              I believe it because I was a christian. In fact, a much better one that you are displaying on these forums!

              However, what evidence is there that you are a christian? None!

              Also, what evidence is there that you are a scientist? None! In fact on this one there is a great deal of evidence that you are in fact NOT a scientist.
              Share your testimony with us. Go ahead.


              • #82
                Originally posted by Feyaway View Post
                There was a member who posted when I first joined carm. She was a Christian and a sincere believer in Christ. She'd said she'd first been a Christian years in the past, then stopped believing and became an atheist and then rejected atheism and became a Christian again, bringing her back to her original convictions.

                So, according to you, would you say she wasn't a Christian when she first sincerely believed or only the second time she sincerely believed?

                I think she was a Christian anytime she sincerely believed meaning both before and after her dip into atheism.

                So what say you?
                Any takers on my question?
                "Fear is the path to the dark side: fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."


                • #83
                  Originally posted by SteveB View Post
                  Indeed I have.
                  All the more reason which is demonstration of the truths of the bible.
                  After a suitable redefinition of the Bible, and a major redefinition of reality.

                  Tell me something here.
                  How do you know that you are actually a scientist?
                  What defines your actually being what you are claiming is your profession?
                  Objective reality. It doesn't need to be "defined": it is.
                  Regards, HRG.

                  "The universe doesn't care what happens to its inhabitants, but its inhabitants do" (Tyrrho).


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Nitso View Post
                    Understandable. How could someone like you who holds... how many degrees is it now? 10? 12? I lost count a long time ago to be honest. possibly take the word of any other human.
                    I am a scientist. You are not. I rely on observation. None of these "ex" stories have details and true evidence. Atheists lie about heaven, hell, sin, God, creation for starters. Who believes them?


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Nouveau View Post
                      I am a scientist.
                      I don't think anyone believes you.


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Arnold Chiari II View Post
                        I don't think anyone believes you.
                        I certainly don't.
                        “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” - Socrates

                        "The concept of a "Personal God," interfering with natural events,...." No criticism of this distorted idea of God can be sharp enough". - Tillich


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by HRG View Post
                          After a suitable redefinition of the Bible, and a major redefinition of reality.
                          Not by me.
                          I think the problem is that people keep redefining the language to suit their own preconceptions, and biases.
                          So, let's do a comparison. Using the same dictionary, from 1828, and from today.

                          Bible. 1828
                          BI'BLE, noun [Gr. a book.]

                          THE BOOK, by way of eminence; the sacred volume, in which are contained the revelations of God, the principles of Christian faith, and the rules of practice. It consists of two parts, called the Old and New Testaments.

                          The bible should be the standard of language as well as of faith.

                          Bible today

                          noun bi·ble \ˈbī-bəl\

                          the Bible : the book of sacred writings used in the Christian religion

                          : the book of sacred writings used in the Jewish religion

                          Bible : a copy or edition of the Bible

                          Full Definition of BIBLE


                          a : the sacred scriptures of Christians comprising the Old Testament and the New Testament
                          b : the sacred scriptures of some other religion (as Judaism)


                          obsolete : book


                          capitalized : a copy or an edition of the Bible


                          : a publication that is preeminent especially in authoritativeness or wide readership <the fisherman's bible> <the bible of the entertainment industry>


                          TRUTH, noun

                          1. Conformity to fact or reality; exact accordance with that which is, or has been, or shall be. The truth of history constitutes its whole value. We rely on the truth of the scriptural prophecies.

                          My mouth shall speak truth Proverbs 8:7.

                          Sanctify them through thy truth; thy word is truth John 17:17.

                          2. True state of facts or things. The duty of a court of justice is to discover the truth Witnesses are sworn to declare the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

                          3. Conformity of words to thoughts, which is called moral truth

                          Shall truth fail to keep her word?

                          4. Veracity; purity from falsehood; practice of speaking truth; habitual disposition to speak truth; as when we say, a man is a man of truth

                          5. Correct opinion.

                          6. Fidelity; constancy.

                          The thoughts of past pleasure and truth

                          7. Honesty; virtue.

                          It must appear

                          That malice bears down truth

                          8. Exactness; conformity to rule.

                          Plows, to go true, depend much on the truth of the iron work. [Not in use.]

                          9. Real fact of just principle; real state of things. There are innumerable truths with which we are not acquainted.

                          10. Sincerity.

                          God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth John 4:23.

                          11. The truth of God, is his veracity and faithfulness. Psalms 71:22.

                          Or his revealed will.

                          I have walked in thy truth Psalms 26:3.

                          12. Jesus Christ is called the truth John 14.

                          13. It is sometimes used by way of concession.

                          She said, truth Lord; yet the dogs eat of the crums-- Matthew 15:27.

                          That is, it is a truth; what you have said, I admit to be true.

                          In truth in reality; in fact.

                          Of a truth in reality; certainly.

                          To do truth is to practice what God commands. John 3.



                          noun \ˈtrüth\

                          the truth : the real facts about something : the things that are true

                          : the quality or state of being true

                          : a statement or idea that is true or accepted as true

                          plural truths

                          \ˈtrüthz, ˈtrüths\

                          Full Definition of TRUTH


                          a archaic : fidelity, constancy
                          b : sincerity in action, character, and utterance


                          a (1) : the state of being the case : fact (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality
                          b : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true <truths of thermodynamics>
                          c : the body of true statements and propositions


                          a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality
                          b chiefly British : true 2
                          c : fidelity to an original or to a standard


                          capitalized Christian Science : god

                          in truth : in accordance with fact : actually

                          See truth defined for English-language learners

                          See truth defined for kids

                          Examples of TRUTH

                          • At some point you have to face the simple truth that we failed.
                          • Their explanation was simpler but came closer to the truth.
                          • The article explains the truth about global warming.
                          • A reporter soon discovered the truth.
                          • Do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
                          • Her story contains a grain of truth but also lots of exaggeration.

                          Origin of TRUTH

                          Middle English trewthe, from Old English trēowth fidelity; akin to Old English trēowe faithful — more at trueFirst Known Use: before 12th century


                          REAL'ITY, noun
                          1. Actual being or existence of any thing; truth; fact; in distinction from mere appearance.
                          A man may fancy he understands a critic, when in reality he does not comprehend his meaning.

                          2. Something intrinsically important, not merely matter of show.
                          And to realities yield all her shows.
                          3. In the schools, that may exist of itself, or which has a full and absolute being of itself, and is not considered as a part of any thing else.
                          4. In law, immobility, or the fixed, permanent nature of property; as chattels which savor of the reality [This word is so written in law, for reality ]



                          noun re·al·i·ty \rē-ˈa-lə-tē\
                          : the true situation that exists : the real situation
                          : something that actually exists or happens : a real event, occurrence, situation, etc.

                          Take a 3 minute break!
                          See if you can Name That Thing »

                          plural re·al·i·ties
                          Full Definition of REALITY

                          : the quality or state of being real

                          a (1) : a real event, entity, or state of affairs <his dream became a reality> (2) : the totality of real things and events <trying to escape from reality>
                          b : something that is neither derivative nor dependent but exists necessarily


                          : television programming that features videos of actual occurrences (as a police chase, stunt, or natural disaster) —often used attributively <reality TV>
                          in reality : in actual fact

                          See reality defined for English-language learners

                          See reality defined for kids

                          Examples of REALITY

                          • the difference between fiction and reality
                          • The reality is that we can't afford to buy a house.
                          • He used television as an escape from reality.
                          • They made the plan a reality.

                          First Known Use of REALITY


                          As definitions change, and the same dictionary shows variations, I'll stick with the 1828 version. Especially as it's written by the original Noah Webster, after whom the present dictionary is named.

                          Objective reality. It doesn't need to be "defined": it is.
                          In other words, you have no idea.
                          Thank you for demonstrating my point.
                          God is real. He can be known. You only cheat yourself by giving what you call reasons, and are nothing more than excuses. There's an old saying:
                          an excuse is nothing more than a skin of reason, over a skeleton of lies.


                          • #88
                            And in the event you decide to go off on the original Webster's Dictionary, here's the history of the man, and his work.


                            Noah Webster (1758 – 1843), was a lexicographer and a language reformer. He is often called the "Father of American Scholarship and Education". In his lifetime he was also a lawyer, schoolmaster, author, newspaper editor and an outspoken politician.
                            Noah Webster was a very learned and devout man, and his ideas about language in his long introduction to his dictionary make for interesting reading. The frontispiece gives us a wonderful portrait of Webster. He presents as a man of strong will and determination, qualities he would have needed to push his great project to a conclusion.

                            In 1807 Webster began compiling a fully comprehensive dictionary, An American Dictionary of the English Language; it took twenty-eight years to complete. To evaluate the etymology of words, Webster learned twenty-six languages, including Old English (Anglo-Saxon), Greek, Hebrew and Latin.

                            Webster completed his dictionary during his year abroad in 1825 in Paris, France, and at the University of Cambridge. His book contained seventy thousand words, of which twelve thousand had never appeared in a published dictionary before. As a spelling reformer, Webster believed that English spelling rules were unnecessarily complex, so his dictionary introduced American English spellings, replacing colour with color, substituting wagon for waggon, and printing center instead of centre. He also added American words, like skunk and squash, that did not appear in British dictionaries. At the age of seventy, Webster published his dictionary in 1828, registering the copyright on April 14. Webster did all this in an effort to standardize the American language.

                            Webster's New Haven home, where he wrote An American Dictionary of the English Language. Now relocated to Greenfield Village in Dearborn, Michigan.

                            Though it now has an honored place in the history of American English, Webster's first dictionary only sold two and a half thousand copies. He was forced to mortgage his home to develop a second edition, and his life from then on was plagued with debt.
                            In 1840, the second edition was published in two volumes. On May 28, 1843, a few days after he had completed revising an appendix to the second edition, Noah Webster died.
                            Noah Webster was a Christian and famously said "Education is useless without the Bible." His dictionary contains seventy thousand words and over six thousand Bible references and remains one of the only mainstream dictionaries to use Bible references to demonstrate the meaning of words. His dictionary is an essential tool for anyone studying the Bible.
                            Christian readers will find it rewarding to compare his definitions of such words as "marriage", "education", "sin", "law", "faith", "prayer", etc., with those given in any modern dictionary. They will no doubt be surprised at the great differences, and may come away with a renewed respect for American.
                            Noah Webster also used quotes from many authors of classical literature in his dictionary. His work went on to inspire many other authors in their use of the language. As with Emily Dickinson, we know that she made frequent and extensive use of Noah Webster's 'Dictionary of the English Language' in writing her poems, paying attention not only to definitions but also to Webster's etymologies and his illustrative quotations.
                            The scholarly consensus is that she probably made use of an 1844 reprint of the 1841 edition, but since this is now rare, and since the 1828 edition was also in the Dickinson library, the present facsimile of the 1828 edition becomes an important resource for helping us to recover at least some of the senses in which she understood certain words.
                            This is a book that should be in everyone's library, as providing a fund of wisdom, knowledge, and information that few modern books can even begin to approach.
                            God is real. He can be known. You only cheat yourself by giving what you call reasons, and are nothing more than excuses. There's an old saying:
                            an excuse is nothing more than a skin of reason, over a skeleton of lies.


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Nouveau View Post
                              Share your testimony with us. Go ahead.
                              Sure, here you go:
                              Je suis Charlie


                              • #90
                                Webster ? You are obviously anglocentric. Haven't you heard of the Encyclopédie by Diderot et al. ?

                                A dictionary only records current usages, colored by the bias of its author. The Encyclopèdie went much deeper.
                                Regards, HRG.

                                "The universe doesn't care what happens to its inhabitants, but its inhabitants do" (Tyrrho).